Electric cars in winter, range affected?
Discussion
Can anyone with first hand experience share whether the range of an all electric car is adversely affected by winter use of more accessories? Compared to summer, the batteries are colder and there is more use of lights, heater, heated rear window, wipers, etc., does that noticeably affect the range? Or is the style of driving such a large influence that the increased electrical use of electrical accessories is not significant?
I have a 2016 Renault Zoe 22kw. It is used on mainly fast roads and as fast as the conditions allow. It does much better around town where there is more chance or energy recovery. I also drive with little thought for economy , apart from trying not to let the friction brakes work.
Summer Range 70 miles.
Winter 50 miles , I have gone 48 miles in the cold and I think it had 7 left when I pulled on the drive. I think the cold also slows down the charging and the amount of energy that can be recovered duriy braking as cold batteries can't accept as much power.
I would have another happily as a second car. I just wish it had a little more go between 40 -60. 0-40 is perfectly acceptable.
Summer Range 70 miles.
Winter 50 miles , I have gone 48 miles in the cold and I think it had 7 left when I pulled on the drive. I think the cold also slows down the charging and the amount of energy that can be recovered duriy braking as cold batteries can't accept as much power.
I would have another happily as a second car. I just wish it had a little more go between 40 -60. 0-40 is perfectly acceptable.
I see about -30% on the i3 in the winter than I do in the summer. It's regularly below zero where we live, going down to about -10 in the morning. We're looking at moving to somewhere where it can easily be -20 in the morning and I'm wondering whether it will be worth keeping.
For me the biggest issue isn't the lack of range in the morning, as the pre-heating is possible and it lives in a garage. The big issue is leaving the car in a car park and coming back to find 15km less range and a trip which was comfortable to get back home suddenly being tight.
For me the biggest issue isn't the lack of range in the morning, as the pre-heating is possible and it lives in a garage. The big issue is leaving the car in a car park and coming back to find 15km less range and a trip which was comfortable to get back home suddenly being tight.
Phunk said:
It's not the increased use of electrical accessories that lowers the range, they make negligible difference. It's mainly the battery performing worse when it's cold and increased use of the heater.
er, it kinda is you know!Cabin heating is typically 3kW at low external temperatures (depending if you have the heat pump option or basic resistive heater only)
Typical UK driving (non motorway, which is where a short range EV is used the most) results in a typical average road load of around 12kW.
That means cabin heating can be up to a quarter of your road load!
You don't notice that heat demand in an ICE vehicle because the engine is such a profligate waster of heat (at the same 12kW roadload, there's around around 30kW of heat being uselessly blown out into the environment!)
A friend has a first-gen LEAF, with a general range of 80 miles in summer with careful driving. Now that the temps are near zero in the morning he loses about 30 miles off his range (assuming the same kind of driving). He refuses to have the cabin heater on for fear of lowering this further - so he's been driving around freezing his backside off..... much to the amusement of this particular dino-juice user.
Second-gen LEAFs are apparently much better - but as already said you cannot change the fact that a battery pack will be far more efficient in warmer ambient temps than in colder ones. Additional energy is so needed to keep the batteries warm when starting away from a charge point.
Tech will get better as it progresses and the difficulties are not insurmountable - I wonder how they do in places like Norway which are way colder for longer periods?
Second-gen LEAFs are apparently much better - but as already said you cannot change the fact that a battery pack will be far more efficient in warmer ambient temps than in colder ones. Additional energy is so needed to keep the batteries warm when starting away from a charge point.
Tech will get better as it progresses and the difficulties are not insurmountable - I wonder how they do in places like Norway which are way colder for longer periods?
Max_Torque said:
Phunk said:
It's not the increased use of electrical accessories that lowers the range, they make negligible difference. It's mainly the battery performing worse when it's cold and increased use of the heater.
er, it kinda is you know!Cabin heating is typically 3kW at low external temperatures (depending if you have the heat pump option or basic resistive heater only)
Typical UK driving (non motorway, which is where a short range EV is used the most) results in a typical average road load of around 12kW.
That means cabin heating can be up to a quarter of your road load!
You don't notice that heat demand in an ICE vehicle because the engine is such a profligate waster of heat (at the same 12kW roadload, there's around around 30kW of heat being uselessly blown out into the environment!)
Last night I forgot to set the timer for my pre-heat, so it was starting from cold this morning. It used an extra 10% electric power to do my usual journey. I didn't alter any interior heat settings, but it still used a significant amount more power. I can only think the pre-heat warms the battery and not just the cabin.
My new Kia Soul is saying 85miles and it was -0.5 this morning - it does go down by 8 miles when the heating is turned on but you can turn the heat off and use the heated seat/wheel if you're feeling miserly
The pre-heat at the moment is epic. The other car has been ice-cubed a few times this week - getting into the Soul and you're hit with a wall of heat, and all the windows cleared, it's miles better than the Zoe heating, which was crap.
The pre-heat at the moment is epic. The other car has been ice-cubed a few times this week - getting into the Soul and you're hit with a wall of heat, and all the windows cleared, it's miles better than the Zoe heating, which was crap.
RicksAlfas said:
Last night I forgot to set the timer for my pre-heat, so it was starting from cold this morning. It used an extra 10% electric power to do my usual journey. I didn't alter any interior heat settings, but it still used a significant amount more power. I can only think the pre-heat warms the battery and not just the cabin.
It uses far more energy to warm something from cold than keep it warm; the thermostat won't have told the car it was at temperature till much later in the journey, so the heater will have been thrashed for far longer, using more juice. It might well warm the batteries as well.
RicksAlfas said:
Last night I forgot to set the timer for my pre-heat, so it was starting from cold this morning. It used an extra 10% electric power to do my usual journey. I didn't alter any interior heat settings, but it still used a significant amount more power. I can only think the pre-heat warms the battery and not just the cabin.
Not sure which EV you have, but the i3 warms its batteries if you give it at least 3 hours notice of departure time. Otherwise it just warms the cabin.Electric cars have developed a lot lately. We have now discovered that the cheapest [url=https://matchpnp.com/the-cheapest-electric-car/
]electric car[/url] will be launched on the market. 4 autonomy seats of 225 km and a trunk of 300l. It's called Dacia Spring and costs 17k euros. What do you think about her?
]electric car[/url] will be launched on the market. 4 autonomy seats of 225 km and a trunk of 300l. It's called Dacia Spring and costs 17k euros. What do you think about her?
Range is also reduced because cold air is denser and causes more aerodynamic drag. Heavy rain seams to take it's toll to.
Not convinced the MK1 Leaf battery suffers much as it's temperature is so stable at least judged by the bar graph gauge. 4 bars winter 5 summer. 6 heat wave. Had the car 5 years before I saw less than 4 - "Beast from the East" in 2018 - 2. Then I think I didn't use the car much for a few days and it was cold and windy so more penetrating.
Certainly the Leafs heater is very poor, gobbles up to 6KW and never that toasty. I thought an EV would have a fan heater behind the dash board and so be really good but no. Has a clunky water circuit it always heats so you still have to wait. And no manual mode so in freezing conditions you can set no lower than 16 deg C which it wastes energy trying to achieve when just taking the chill of would have done.
So range can be up to 30% down so no big deal in temperate Britain. Much more of an issue for northern USA or Europe with deep winters.
Not convinced the MK1 Leaf battery suffers much as it's temperature is so stable at least judged by the bar graph gauge. 4 bars winter 5 summer. 6 heat wave. Had the car 5 years before I saw less than 4 - "Beast from the East" in 2018 - 2. Then I think I didn't use the car much for a few days and it was cold and windy so more penetrating.
Certainly the Leafs heater is very poor, gobbles up to 6KW and never that toasty. I thought an EV would have a fan heater behind the dash board and so be really good but no. Has a clunky water circuit it always heats so you still have to wait. And no manual mode so in freezing conditions you can set no lower than 16 deg C which it wastes energy trying to achieve when just taking the chill of would have done.
So range can be up to 30% down so no big deal in temperate Britain. Much more of an issue for northern USA or Europe with deep winters.
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