Water pump I think

[The Nige]

Trying to sort out a wet patch that keeps appearing on the garage floor, no more than a table spoon over a period of five days. I have narrowed it down to what I think is the problem on the water pump but can’t make out what has happened. If you look at the image of the underneath of the water pump you will see like a D shape missing out of the casing.


I have looked at the images in the AJP water pump build but it shows nothing missing along the joint.
Any suggestion would be appreciated, I have looked at the regular places for water pump casings but nobody seems to stock them.

Cheers

Nigel

[TwinKam]

Hi Nige.
Welcome to a world of pain and expense!

Here's one I prepared earlier...
That 'D' shaped hole is a witness hole, there's another smaller round one at the front of the water pump, they're designed to let you know if an internal seal is leaking; it's not that the casings are leaking as such. In your case the water pump's rear water seal is failing.
Your pump assembly will need a rebuild, using your existing cases and renewing all bearings, seals and O-rings. Unfortunately the engine has to come out and the timing cover removed in order to remove the pump for overhaul (ask me how I know!).
Don't be tempted to add any magic potion to the coolant to try to 'seal' the leak, these often do more harm than good as they are unable to discriminate between a bad hole (leak) and a good hole (coolant passage).
It's a long shot but, as the water pump seals are 'face' type seals, it's just feasible that they might have dirt in between the ceramic faces; it may be worth thoroughly flushing the cooling system, especially if it's been in there a while. On the other hand, if the pump's never been overhauled, consider how old those seals are now. There's a tiny rubber bellows on each seal, the likelihood is that they have simply perished.
Good luck.
Rik



Edited to enlarge photo

Edited by TwinKam on Saturday 3rd June 14:20

[The Nige]

Hi Twinkam

Thanks for the info, one of these days someone will say just tighten them two bolts . What are the chances of still using the car or is it a sign that the pump rebuild will be sooner rather than later. The image above is that yours after the rebuild and did you do the rebuild yourself or send it away.

Thanks

Nigel

[TwinKam]

Short term, I'd just monitor it, Nigel.
Yes, that's my pump just after I'd rebuilt it. Mine had managed to break the shaft! Apart from the two waterpump impellers, I replaced everything internally (including oil pump rotors), the casings cleaned up nicely by aquablasting as you can see. It's not especially difficult but you do need a press, pullers, bearing separators etc and a fair bit of mechanical sympathy/ understanding.
I read somewhere that Readman Racing are the go-to people and they overhaul the pumps for some of the TVR specialists, but I suspect others like Powers do it in house.
HTH
Rik

[The Nige]

Hi TwinKam

Thanks for responding, I suppose the next thing is to check the depth of my wallet .

Cheers

Nigel

[ukkid35]

With the timing cover removed, do you also have to drop the sump?

[Jhonno]

ukkid35 said:

With the timing cover removed, do you also have to drop the sump?

I don't think so iirc..

[TwinKam]

The pump assy is sandwiched between the sump and the block, compressing the O-rings that seal the entry and exit ports of the coolant pump. So whereas it might be possible to remove the pump with the sump on, it would be very difficult (if not foolhardy) to attempt to refit it the same way (Cue dozens of posts from people that have done it that way!...)
I wouldn't.

Edited by TwinKam on Wednesday 7th March 10:46

[The Nige]

As for removing the sump I'm sure he told me that you could possible remove the the pump without removing the sump but you would have to loosen all the sump bolts to seperate the sump from the engine slightly to have movement to remove the pump. Then you would have a problem with re sealing the sump back to the engine if you don't remove it completely, if you get what I meen.

Cheers

Nigel

[The Nige]

Hi All

Looking for some guidance, does anyone by any chance have any information towards reassembly of the water and oil pump unit.

Thanks

Nigel

[TwinKam]

There's a pic of the general layout somewhere on the web and/or PH, Nige.
Did you dissemble it yourself? I know it's a cliche, but it IS a reversal of that... hopefully you made plenty of notes and sketches
...taking care to fit seals the correct way around and supporting the bearings etc correctly so as not to strain them when pressing them in, especially the water impellers (I think I heated mine).
Replace everything perishable whilst you're at it, every bearing, every O-ring, every seal, oil pump rotors too if they're less than 100% perfect.
If you're really stuck, I may have my notes filed away somewhere, but finding them might take a while!
Good luck.
Rik

Edited by TwinKam on Tuesday 1st May 12:08

[The Nige]

Unfortunately I sent it off to one of the specialists, but after 6 weeks weeks I could wait no longer, the pump was returned not quite finished.

[TwinKam]

It is inevitably doubly difficult to assemble something that another took apart... and they would probably have completed it before you do! This is not something you can afford to get wrong... how much is done? ...assembly starts with the water pump, the oil pump is much easier and the PAS pump is just a bolt on.

Edited by TwinKam on Tuesday 1st May 13:25

[The Nige]

I had a look at the ajp 8 rebuild and seems quite straight foreward, you can see staining where the water has passed the damaged o' ring.

[ukkid35]

I would consider fitting one of the later up-rated aux shafts if you have an early car