Driver survey - GATSO days are numbered?

[turbobloke]

Driver Power Survey Results in Auto Express said:

50,263 drivers took part. 76% say police rely too heavily on speed cameras 79% say speed cameras do not make them a safer driver 57% are considering fitting a detector 39% think they should be fitted as standard in cars 41% have less respect for the police 54% say there aren't enough police patrols on the road 51% say that police time could be better spent chasing real criminals 57% say the police are doing a good job and deserve our support 36% think tailgating is the biggest issue 43% think that better driver training is the single factor that would improve motoring, raising the motorway speed limit came second with 17%, better road work co-ordination scored 16%, hihger police presence on the road scored 14%

Shame about the low response for a higher police presence on the roads, but with such a large sample size this result blows the myth from BRAKE and their car hating brethren that drivers want GATSOs. Brake must interview fourteen lentilists at a vegetarian knit-in and then claim the result is representative.

It also gives support to that London council, Barnet iirc, that has rejected expensive GATSOs and wants to use cheaper interactive signs instead, signs that the Transport Research Lab have shown to have a significantly positive impact on road safety unlike speed cameras. GATSOs have failed dismally to cut road deaths, which have increased in England for two years running after decades of falls.

The GATSO must go - what say PH?

[Car53]

seconded

[xxplod]

No. GATSOS shouldn't go. All speed enforcement ones should go and be used on traffic lights instead. The people who jump lights are either chancers or crap drivers. Either way, they deserve the points/fine.

I am in no doubt if we did this, KSI accidents would fall.

[Piccy mate]

That's just 50,263 out of how many million drivers.
The Auto Express readership is Auto Express 93,292 down 7.6% on the year before, so some 40,000 readers either couldn't be bothered or have no strong feelings to voice.
Not sure that the sampling is a strong representation of 'all' motorists just as any poll on here can be a strong representation of the country. Both have a very strong interests in the car and can be guaranteed to come down against anything that stops the enjoyment thereof.
What I'd like to see is something along the lines of the census with every household getting a questionnaire - perhaps then we'd see the true feelings of Britain's motorists - but as that would be a costly exercise, it will never happen.
Anyway it's all Lies, Lies and dammned statistics.
Piccy mate

[Dougie.]

It's definately an impressive amount of people they had respond to the poll. You cannot discount 50000 + people lightly. I don't personally worry too much about GATSO's though. They're an irritation and the vast majority are placed wrongly but the Road Angel takes care of them.

The single biggest problem is the infernal Scam-vans which lurk everywhere and lowered speed limi...

The *two* biggest issues are the Scam-vans and lowered speed limits.

[james_j]

That's an excellent sample size, with therefore likely accurate statistics. Similar to the recent AOL survey where, out of 30,000 votes, the vast majority resented speed cameras.

A bit more accurate no doubt than the 1000 or so (specially selected) survey conducted by the camera partnerships!

I wonder if any camera representatives would like to comment?

[turbobloke]

xxplod said:

No. GATSOS shouldn't go. All speed enforcement ones should go and be used on traffic lights instead...

Ah, understood. There's evidence from the USA as well as the UK that ATS cameras do have a safety benefit, although reducing the amber phase below three seconds at some locations is revenue not safety. I suspect that the majority if not all of the loathing is aimed at revenue raising speed cameras.

[autismuk]

turbobloke said:

Shame about the low response for a higher police presence on the roads, but with such a large sample size this result blows the myth from BRAKE and their car hating brethren that drivers want GATSOs. Brake must interview fourteen lentilists at a vegetarian knit-in and then claim the result is representative.

I'm quite happy with the Police presence on the roads.

However, I'm not happy with the total lack of Police presence anywhere else, which I suspect is more the problem.

Motorists resent the speed trapping BiB simply because there seem to be so few BiB showing interest in the crimes that worry people.

[turbobloke]

autismuk said:

I'm quite happy with the Police presence on the roads.

I'm not, because they have been replaced by GATSOs and the reverse process will increase safety on the roads. Trafpol can detect dangerous driving at any speed that threatens my life, your life, and our families, in ways that speed cameras never could. Speed cameras cost the salary of a trained and experienced officer. When we had more trafpol our roads were safer than now and were getting safer all the time albeit more slowly over the years. Now they're getting more dangerous and I believe more trafpol would reverse this worrying trend. Importantly, officers have discretion, speed cameras don't.

Yes I'd like to see more bobbies on the beat and on patrol too, less hampered by political correctness and form filling, the way forward there is a piece of paper you can write on come May 5th. Remove BLiar and his muppets and we'll be a long way forward.

>> Edited by turbobloke on Thursday 7th April 11:41

[autismuk]

Well, does anyone actually like Speed Cameras ?

Outside the scumera mob themselves, and the likes of Brake ?

I don't know anyone personally. A general messageboard I frequent has one person who is very pro-camera and has zero support.

There are the pressure groups like Brake, but no-one I know thinks they are anything to do with safety at all.

I'm surprised that it's only 79% because my experience is more like 99%.

[DeltaFox]

xxplod said:

No. GATSOS shouldn't go. All speed enforcement ones should go and be used on traffic lights instead. The people who jump lights are either chancers or crap drivers. Either way, they deserve the points/fine. I am in no doubt if we did this, KSI accidents would fall.

Maybe. Maybe not. A study in the US found a higher incidence of rear end shunts at Camera enfoced intersections.
Having said that, i dont have a problem with red light enforcement at all as long as that is ALL its used for and not perverted for speed duties and anpr.

[parrot of doom]

Its my experience that most people who are ambivalent about Speed Cameras soon change their opinions when a few choice facts are presented to them.

Most people just swallow what they're told by the anti-speed organisations.

[supraman2954]

xxplod said:

No. GATSOS shouldn't go. All speed enforcement ones should go and be used on traffic lights instead. The people who jump lights are either chancers or crap drivers. Either way, they deserve the points/fine. I am in no doubt if we did this, KSI accidents would fall.

Thing is, a lot of places needlessly have traffic lights installed (creating congestion ), and the problem is increasing.

[JoolzB]

xxplod said:

No. GATSOS shouldn't go. All speed enforcement ones should go and be used on traffic lights instead. The people who jump lights are either chancers or crap drivers. Either way, they deserve the points/fine. I am in no doubt if we did this, KSI accidents would fall.

That's an interesting point that. On a stretch of road near me that's not particularly dangerous(good vis, straight roads etc) there have been a number of accidents just after sets of lights probly labelling the road as a "blackspot". So they put cameras up 500 metres away from the the lights where people can safely exceed the limit (imo) but get caught and fined.

[victormeldrew]

Hold your horses, this is a survey of a group of enthusiasts! Hardly impartial, and somewhat likely to be skewed. Its about as good an indicator of general opinion as a survey of Ph'ers, or a survey of Accident and Emergency Doctors.

Give undue credence to this and you can hardly criticise T2000 survey results can you?

To my mind its a surprise that the figures seem so low.

[turbobloke]

victormeldrew said:

Hold your horses, this is a survey of a group of enthusiasts!

It was AutoExpress not Evo

There are between 30 and 40 million motorists, and in other wider surveys (e.g. census type data) the proportion of the population with a car or access to one is about 80%. Motorists pretty well are the working, voting population of this country. The outcome will be far more representative than swampy taking a straw poll at the next stink-in, and I doubt BRAKE take care to ensure their surveys include PHers...

[streaky]

turbobloke said:

xxplod said: No. GATSOS shouldn't go. All speed enforcement ones should go and be used on traffic lights instead... Ah, understood. There's evidence from the USA as well as the UK that ATS cameras do have a safety benefit, although reducing the amber phase below three seconds at some locations is revenue not safety. I suspect that the majority if not all of the loathing is aimed at revenue raising speed cameras.

That's contray to TA 16/81:
5. SIGNAL SEQUENCES
5.1 The signal sequence at junction traffic signals in Great Britain is red, red + amber, green, amber and red. The standard period during which an amber signal is displayed is fixed at three seconds and the red + amber signal at two seconds. The green signal and the red signal are shown for periods which are usually variable between a minimum and a preset maximum, but they can remain in one state during low traffic periods.

Anything else and any RLC 'conviction' would be 'unsafe'.

Control is effected by changing the opposing red period.

See also here.

Streaky

[turbobloke]

streaky said:

That's contray to TA 16/81:5. SIGNAL SEQUENCES...Anything else and any RLC 'conviction' would be 'unsafe'. Streaky

Well dug out. I guess this is heading the way of the GATSO flash duration, timing won't be easy unless there's access to the electronics or a gross change is made. Reckon I've been through some ATS junctions with lights that stay on amber for about 2s but can't prove it. With the heat on at the moment I guess most authorities would have changed any dodgy site back to 3s but you never know.

[CB-Dave]

xxplod said:

No. GATSOS shouldn't go. All speed enforcement ones should go and be used on traffic lights instead. The people who jump lights are either chancers or crap drivers. Either way, they deserve the points/fine. I am in no doubt if we did this, KSI accidents would fall.

very true, but that is provided the amber phase isn't slashed to about 2 seconds for maximum revenue generation...

:edit: I feel a bit silly now, after reading the full thread!

>> Edited by CB-Dave on Friday 8th April 11:49

[havoc]

I AM in favour of SOME GATSO's.

Namely those positioned in a position where there is a high probablitity of pedestrians, or where there have been MORE THAN 1 FATAL RTAs in the last year (maybe 2), which have been independently proven to be due to EXCESSIVE SPEED.

None of this KSI bs, none of this "any RTA" crap. And none of this blatent extortion.

GATSO's are an excellent single-location deterrent. And comparatively cheap.