insulating and making a single skin brick wall garage wall l
Discussion
Hi all.
My garage is a single skin brick wall garage.
I would like to add some chipboard on the walls, or maybe even some melamine to make it look nice. What is the best way to do this ?
1. Batten out with tanalised wood. What is the best way to attach battens on wall? Just drill holes, use plugs and use long screws?
2. Put some sort of plastic (membrane) between the battens. What kind of membrane would i need here?
3. Put celotex or kingspan in between or leave empty?
4. And finally put chipboard or some hard board on top
My worry is condensation. Not sure if i already have airbricks on the current wall, but how do i ensure i dont get any condensation in the garage. There is no heatsource other then the attached house (garage is attached to the house). It does get very hot in summer and very cold in winter.
Should i drill holes or put vents in there? But then i loose insulation and warmth again
Thanks for your help.
My garage is a single skin brick wall garage.
I would like to add some chipboard on the walls, or maybe even some melamine to make it look nice. What is the best way to do this ?
1. Batten out with tanalised wood. What is the best way to attach battens on wall? Just drill holes, use plugs and use long screws?
2. Put some sort of plastic (membrane) between the battens. What kind of membrane would i need here?
3. Put celotex or kingspan in between or leave empty?
4. And finally put chipboard or some hard board on top
My worry is condensation. Not sure if i already have airbricks on the current wall, but how do i ensure i dont get any condensation in the garage. There is no heatsource other then the attached house (garage is attached to the house). It does get very hot in summer and very cold in winter.
Should i drill holes or put vents in there? But then i loose insulation and warmth again
Thanks for your help.
Is the garage wall damp, either rising from lack of dpc or penetration due to rail etc?
If the wall is good I wouldn't mess around with membranes, I reckon the cheapest way would be to use some polystrene/PIR sheets for insulation and OSB for the panelling, just put screws traight through the OSB and insulation into the wall. OSB is more damp resistant than chipboard and should give you a good fixing for hooks and lightweight shelving. If you want to hang something heavy fix though into the brick wall. A garage is probably well enough ventilated to stop condensation issues providing it does not have damp coming in through the roof, walls or floors.
In one of my houses with an attached brick shed I used the PIR backed plasterboard to turn it into a home for the boiler and washing machine. The board was just attached using dot and dab and it has been fine for over six years now.
If the wall is good I wouldn't mess around with membranes, I reckon the cheapest way would be to use some polystrene/PIR sheets for insulation and OSB for the panelling, just put screws traight through the OSB and insulation into the wall. OSB is more damp resistant than chipboard and should give you a good fixing for hooks and lightweight shelving. If you want to hang something heavy fix though into the brick wall. A garage is probably well enough ventilated to stop condensation issues providing it does not have damp coming in through the roof, walls or floors.
In one of my houses with an attached brick shed I used the PIR backed plasterboard to turn it into a home for the boiler and washing machine. The board was just attached using dot and dab and it has been fine for over six years now.
Edited by Toltec on Tuesday 8th August 12:34
Toltec said:
Is the garage wall damp, either rising from lack of dpc or penetration due to rail etc?
Hmm not sure, i dont think so. It's a single brick wall and the grouting is in a bad shape, but i patched that up. I do notice that books and paper does get affected by moisture over time.
So you are saying, OSB with plasterboard underneath that, and dot and dab it on the wall? I'm tempted to do dot and dab but i feel it's usually frowned upon. Would it not cause a cold bridge or moisture spots where the dab is ? Would you still put celotex or insulation behind the dot and dab attached boards?
Hmm not sure, i dont think so. It's a single brick wall and the grouting is in a bad shape, but i patched that up. I do notice that books and paper does get affected by moisture over time.
So you are saying, OSB with plasterboard underneath that, and dot and dab it on the wall? I'm tempted to do dot and dab but i feel it's usually frowned upon. Would it not cause a cold bridge or moisture spots where the dab is ? Would you still put celotex or insulation behind the dot and dab attached boards?
Edited by Toltec on Tuesday 8th August 12:34
You could always use an air gap membrane (allows the brick wall the breathe and also stops penetrating damp) and then dab on insulated plasterboard.
https://www.twistfix.co.uk/damp-check-mesh-membran...
https://www.twistfix.co.uk/damp-check-mesh-membran...
atv2 said:
Toltec said:
Is the garage wall damp, either rising from lack of dpc or penetration due to rail etc?
Hmm not sure, i dont think so. It's a single brick wall and the grouting is in a bad shape, but i patched that up. I do notice that books and paper does get affected by moisture over time.So you are saying, OSB with plasterboard underneath that, and dot and dab it on the wall? I'm tempted to do dot and dab but i feel it's usually frowned upon. Would it not cause a cold bridge or moisture spots where the dab is ? Would you still put celotex or insulation behind the dot and dab attached boards?
I meant using dot and dab with insulated plasterboard works just fine in an unheated, but dry, single brick shed to make it a clean and tidy space.
For a garage you probably want a surface you can fix directly to using a normal wood screw hence suggesting an OSB surface, OSB is fairly cheap, damp resistant and would take a reasonable load directly. Rather than dot and dab you could find some Kingspan/Celotex seconds, hold them on the wall with a few small dabs of gripfill, not as a fixing, but just to make the job a bit easier, then you put the OSB over the top and drill straight through into the wall, tap a screw with a plug on the end into the hole and tighten it up. You will end up with a sandwich of of OSB and insulation covering the wall and the screws will be less of a cold bridge than putting battens up first.
You could batten the wall, put insulation in between, then screw boards to the battens, but it seems like a lot more work for little gain. Yes you can put a longer screw into the battens to fasten things to the wall, but that will only be as good as the fastening of the battens to the brick. With my method for anything heavy you just go straight though into the brick.
I'm not a builder, but I have built an extension on my own that building control was happy with and have been doing this sort of thing for about thirty years.
Hey Toltec,
Thanks a lot for your answer. Yes i do like the idea of OSB (or ply?) for the walls. I hate plasterboard. It will make for a nice workshop look. I thought about using melamine for a nice clean look but that's probably less of a good idea (moisture, will get scratched easily).
PS Did you ever have moisture problems with doing dot and dab on a single brick wall facing the outside?)
Ok, so
1. Glue celotex/kingspan/jablite stuff to the wall.
2. Screw OSB on top of that through to the brick (drill hole through brick, put in long wood screw with a plug in the wall i assume or?
3. Would i still need a permeable membrane her or could i do without? It's not going to be a room to live in, i just want it to look nice, don't care particulary about heat and there won't be a heat source (other then maybe a infrared lamp that is on occassionally).
Would condensation still have a way of going back out or should i drill some ventilation holes in the OSB ? I have rather drafty garagedoor now but i imagine maybe in the future doing an upgrade of that so it would be more insulated. As this garage is attached to the house, i wouldnt want to get moisture issues traveling to the house.
Thanks a lot for your answer. Yes i do like the idea of OSB (or ply?) for the walls. I hate plasterboard. It will make for a nice workshop look. I thought about using melamine for a nice clean look but that's probably less of a good idea (moisture, will get scratched easily).
PS Did you ever have moisture problems with doing dot and dab on a single brick wall facing the outside?)
Ok, so
1. Glue celotex/kingspan/jablite stuff to the wall.
2. Screw OSB on top of that through to the brick (drill hole through brick, put in long wood screw with a plug in the wall i assume or?
3. Would i still need a permeable membrane her or could i do without? It's not going to be a room to live in, i just want it to look nice, don't care particulary about heat and there won't be a heat source (other then maybe a infrared lamp that is on occassionally).
Would condensation still have a way of going back out or should i drill some ventilation holes in the OSB ? I have rather drafty garagedoor now but i imagine maybe in the future doing an upgrade of that so it would be more insulated. As this garage is attached to the house, i wouldnt want to get moisture issues traveling to the house.
Edited by atv2 on Thursday 10th August 13:47
The shed I used dot and dab in is fine six years after I did it, I had the felt replaced on the roof as it was getting a bit tired though not leaking yet, the walls and interior were dry, as it is attached to the house it was built with a proper damp proof course and membrane in the walls and floor. This is why I asked if your garage is damp.
1. Just enough to hold the insulation in place while you get the OSB/Ply in place.
2. Screw and plug or you could use frame fixings, but they would cost more. Say 50mm insulation, 22mm board, 100mm screw; set/mark your drill for 75mm plus the length of the plugs or at least 105mm, you want the plug to go all the way into the brick and obviously have room to take the screw.
3. You could use a Vapour Control Lining, this would go between the OSB and insulation, you could use some double sided tape to hold it in place, the screws would make some holes, but by and large unless you put a swimming pool in the garage it probably won't matter. This however is to stop damp in the air from getting through the board and insulation, condensing on the cold brick wall, trickling down the wall and rotting out the bottom of your boards. If you have damp coming in through the walls then that is a different problem that some plastic sheeting will not fix.
1. Just enough to hold the insulation in place while you get the OSB/Ply in place.
2. Screw and plug or you could use frame fixings, but they would cost more. Say 50mm insulation, 22mm board, 100mm screw; set/mark your drill for 75mm plus the length of the plugs or at least 105mm, you want the plug to go all the way into the brick and obviously have room to take the screw.
3. You could use a Vapour Control Lining, this would go between the OSB and insulation, you could use some double sided tape to hold it in place, the screws would make some holes, but by and large unless you put a swimming pool in the garage it probably won't matter. This however is to stop damp in the air from getting through the board and insulation, condensing on the cold brick wall, trickling down the wall and rotting out the bottom of your boards. If you have damp coming in through the walls then that is a different problem that some plastic sheeting will not fix.
I have no idea really if my garage is damp. How would i know?
Probably a bit? It's a single brick wall, with bad grouting. Should i put some paper on the floor or walls and check in the morning?
Why is the plastic put between the OSB and the insulation, why not protect the insulation from the moisture as well?
If you added a damp proof course (that is the plastic that goes against the wall right?) i should probably as well. Was this permeable or impermeable?
The insulation would ultimately be held by the screws holding the OSB/ply in place correct?
Sorry for all the questions!
Probably a bit? It's a single brick wall, with bad grouting. Should i put some paper on the floor or walls and check in the morning?
Why is the plastic put between the OSB and the insulation, why not protect the insulation from the moisture as well?
If you added a damp proof course (that is the plastic that goes against the wall right?) i should probably as well. Was this permeable or impermeable?
The insulation would ultimately be held by the screws holding the OSB/ply in place correct?
Sorry for all the questions!
Edited by atv2 on Thursday 10th August 15:31
atv2 said:
I have no idea really if my garage is damp. How would i know?
Probably a bit? It's a single brick wall, with bad grouting. Should i put some paper on the floor or walls and check in the morning?
Why is the plastic put between the OSB and the insulation, why not protect the insulation from the moisture as well?
If you added a damp proof course (that is the plastic that goes against the wall right?) i should probably as well. Was this permeable or impermeable?
The insulation would ultimately be held by the screws holding the OSB/ply in place correct?
Sorry for all the questions!
You can get a moisture meter, from a tenner to hundreds of quid, even a cheaper one should give you some idea if you compare dry walls in your house with inside and outside your garage etc. I don't have one so I cannot suggest a cheaper one that works well, someone else might be able to suggest something.Probably a bit? It's a single brick wall, with bad grouting. Should i put some paper on the floor or walls and check in the morning?
Why is the plastic put between the OSB and the insulation, why not protect the insulation from the moisture as well?
If you added a damp proof course (that is the plastic that goes against the wall right?) i should probably as well. Was this permeable or impermeable?
The insulation would ultimately be held by the screws holding the OSB/ply in place correct?
Sorry for all the questions!
Edited by atv2 on Thursday 10th August 15:31
The damp proof course stops moisture rising from the ground up into the walls, you should be able to spot this as a dark line of plastic or tar like material between two courses of bricks towrdas tthe bottom of the wall. If you are getting moisture penetrating the wall from outside then the best thing to do is stop it on the outside not the inside. So if the pointing (grouting) is bad then sort that out, if you get rain running down the wall from the roof because of bad or non-existant guttering then fix that. Covering the wall with render or cladding will protect it and help stop rain penetration, however it all starts to get more complicated and expensive. You can also get brick sealants that can just be painted on like a varnish, but the wall would need to be sound and free of cracks to stand a chance of that helping.
The insulation will be pretty much unaffected by moisture, that is one of the reasons why I suggested not bothering with battens as fastening them to a slightly damp wall is not a good idea, but the insulation would not be affected.
You have a couple of basic choices, patch the wall as best you can and put the insulation and board in to give you a garage that is nicer to work in or go the whole way and convert it into a fully habitable room. In the former case you can probably do it yourself, the latter would probably need you to pay a builder to do it.
As a thought, clean up the inside of the wall and paint some ordinary white emulsion on it, if it discolours and bubbles or peels off then the wall is too wet to cover up, if it looks fine after a year then you can cover it it. May also help you find any trouble spots and patch them up outside. Even painting the walls of a garage can make it much nicer to be in, generally brighter and less dust, this is what I have done with mine as well as sealing the floor with a few coats of watered down PVA.
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