JD Classics, what have they been up to?
Discussion
Burwood said:
What I find baffling is the current owners are still completely deluded. Stating that JD is the Boss of the industry and still in business. Who in their right mind would step foot on the premises. The talented employees should run off and do their own thing or call a competitor. JD is done.
If it were just Mr Tuke (an 8M claim) then they would have coughed up and kept it quiet. Clearly it's the tip of the iceberg. Like a phoenix 'DJ cars emerges'
I don't know why people are struggling with this. The company is still in business, and in what world would the owners of any business say "We've gone down the toilet" until and unless they actually have? If it were just Mr Tuke (an 8M claim) then they would have coughed up and kept it quiet. Clearly it's the tip of the iceberg. Like a phoenix 'DJ cars emerges'
From their point of view, Hood is the fall guy He's gone, so they want to get the best result from what's left. Either they're going to sell the business, to realise the cash to settle their debts and obligations, in which case "Run away!" is not the message they should be giving the world. Alternatively, they want to restructure, so they can continue to trade the business themselves. In which case "Run away!" is still not the message to give.
If they did what people seem to want, and said "Run away!", then they won;t even raise the cash needed to repay those who have a claim against them.
Don't take this the wrong way Doofus but they are insolvent. It's over for DJ. The 'still in business' is a mere technicality.
I merely posed the question, who in their right mind would do business with these cowboys. I don't believe for a second that Hood was a lone, rogue employee.
And if they are to continue as a going concern then the first thing you do is make your creditors (Take) whole and make a press release explaining what happened and what was done to fix it.
I merely posed the question, who in their right mind would do business with these cowboys. I don't believe for a second that Hood was a lone, rogue employee.
And if they are to continue as a going concern then the first thing you do is make your creditors (Take) whole and make a press release explaining what happened and what was done to fix it.
Edited by Burwood on Tuesday 11th September 15:20
Burwood said:
Don't take this the wrong way Doofus but they are insolvent. It's over for DJ. The 'still in business' is a mere technicality.
I merely posed the question, who in their right mind would do business with these cowboys. I don't believe for a second that Hood was a lone, rogue employee.
I don't claim to know the internal working of JD but it wouldn't surprise me if Hood was the sole rogue employee, at least as far as dodgy car sales was concerned. I merely posed the question, who in their right mind would do business with these cowboys. I don't believe for a second that Hood was a lone, rogue employee.
I wonder how many others among the new owners had enough knowledge to participate in brokering specialist cars ?
Of course the bigger picture may well include other financial irregularities.
Burwood said:
Don't take this the wrong way Doofus but they are insolvent. It's over for DJ. The 'still in business' is a mere technicality.
I merely posed the question, who in their right mind would do business with these cowboys. I don't believe for a second that Hood was a lone, rogue employee.
No argument here I merely posed the question, who in their right mind would do business with these cowboys. I don't believe for a second that Hood was a lone, rogue employee.
Things are obviously moving fairly quickly. But. 'In Administration' doesn't mean 'Insolvent'. The first often leads to the second, and the second can occur without the first, but they aren't the same thing. There's every chance that by the time I've typed this, they have gone from In Administration to In Receivership, but it's not necessarily over, and as such, they will continue to tell the world that it's all good.
Recently House of Fraser went into Administration. They weren't insolvent, they were bought and as of today (although by the time I've written this, who knows
) they are still trading.I'm not defending JD or anything they have done, but if I owned a business and one of my colleagues f
ked over a client, leaving me with a big liability, I'd be trying to rescue my investment, and part of that would be to make positive noises until the last light went out. GoodOlBoy said:
Burwood said:
Don't take this the wrong way Doofus but they are insolvent. It's over for DJ. The 'still in business' is a mere technicality.
I merely posed the question, who in their right mind would do business with these cowboys. I don't believe for a second that Hood was a lone, rogue employee.
I don't claim to know the internal working of JD but it wouldn't surprise me if Hood was the sole rogue employee, at least as far as dodgy car sales was concerned. I merely posed the question, who in their right mind would do business with these cowboys. I don't believe for a second that Hood was a lone, rogue employee.
I wonder how many others among the new owners had enough knowledge to participate in brokering specialist cars ?
Of course the bigger picture may well include other financial irregularities.
Apparently profits are up according to Sky News, Well at least in the sportswear division...
https://news.sky.com/story/retailer-jd-sports-buck...
https://news.sky.com/story/retailer-jd-sports-buck...
Doofus said:
Things are obviously moving fairly quickly. But. 'In Administration' doesn't mean 'Insolvent'. The first often leads to the second, and the second can occur without the first, but they aren't the same thing. There's every chance that by the time I've typed this, they have gone from In Administration to In Receivership, but it's not necessarily over, and as such, they will continue to tell the world that it's all good.
Some info here.https://www.companyrescue.co.uk/guides-knowledge/g...
Looking at the Companies House info, Lloyds have a 'charge' on JD Classics (£17.5 million?). Assuming I interpret this right, administration basically prevents the creditor (Lloyds) from foreclosing on the loan and pulling the plug totally.
It buys some time, I guess. Probably makes sense to have the place locked down until they can work out exactly which cars are legally JD's and which are customers... Not impossible for expensive metal to walk out the door while everyone's still working out which way is up.
If you read various news stories, check company records etc it is quite clear that JD has around 100M in debt across the group. Plus we have unknown continent liabilities (Tuke et al), potentially 10's of millions.
The 'Assets' at book value being 130M. Now, just think, are they worth that or is it likely that they will have issues getting top dollar when the asset is tarnished.
A quote 'Lenders are understood to be facing a loss of as much as £25m on its exposure to the company, according to one insider'
translation. The cars are only worth 75M and we owe 100M. This means they are insolvent
The 'Assets' at book value being 130M. Now, just think, are they worth that or is it likely that they will have issues getting top dollar when the asset is tarnished.
A quote 'Lenders are understood to be facing a loss of as much as £25m on its exposure to the company, according to one insider'
translation. The cars are only worth 75M and we owe 100M. This means they are insolvent
silentbrown said:
Doofus said:
Things are obviously moving fairly quickly. But. 'In Administration' doesn't mean 'Insolvent'. The first often leads to the second, and the second can occur without the first, but they aren't the same thing. There's every chance that by the time I've typed this, they have gone from In Administration to In Receivership, but it's not necessarily over, and as such, they will continue to tell the world that it's all good.
Some info here.https://www.companyrescue.co.uk/guides-knowledge/g...
Looking at the Companies House info, Lloyds have a 'charge' on JD Classics (£17.5 million?). Assuming I interpret this right, administration basically prevents the creditor (Lloyds) from foreclosing on the loan and pulling the plug totally.
It buys some time, I guess. Probably makes sense to have the place locked down until they can work out exactly which cars are legally JD's and which are customers... Not impossible for expensive metal to walk out the door while everyone's still working out which way is up.
To be more precise; Lloyds appointed Alvarez & Marsal (experts in turning businesses around) who appointed administrators. (Lloyds are controlling the show)
Edited by Burwood on Tuesday 11th September 15:49
Burwood said:
If you read various news stories, check company records etc it is quite clear that JD has around 100M in debt across the group. Plus we have unknown continent liabilities (Tuke et al), potentially 10's of millions.
The 'Assets' at book value being 130M. Now, just think, are they worth that or is it likely that they will have issues getting top dollar when the asset is tarnished.
A quote 'Lenders are understood to be facing a loss of as much as £25m on its exposure to the company?, according to one insider'
translation. The cars are only worth 75M and we owe 100M. This means they are insolvent
On the face of it, yes. However, we don't know what they are owed by others, and of course, there are several companies in the group, which can help to muddy the water and move debt around. I agree that they are unlikely to survive, and the creditors are very unlikely to get all their money back, but until the doors actually close, the owners will continue to be all teeth and smiles.The 'Assets' at book value being 130M. Now, just think, are they worth that or is it likely that they will have issues getting top dollar when the asset is tarnished.
A quote 'Lenders are understood to be facing a loss of as much as £25m on its exposure to the company?, according to one insider'
translation. The cars are only worth 75M and we owe 100M. This means they are insolvent
But which ever way you look at it, the future doesn't look rosy. Lloyds are said to be owed £25 million, and any fire sale will have the wolves circling. I am not sure if this question has been asked but are Charme's accountants shivering in their boots over lack of due diligence when the company was purchased?
lowdrag said:
But which ever way you look at it, the future doesn't look rosy. Lloyds are said to be owed £25 million, and any fire sale will have the wolves circling. I am not sure if this question has been asked but are Charme's accountants shivering in their boots over lack of due diligence when the company was purchased?
Lloyds is facing a £25M loss on much higher exposure. They are the biggest providers of JDs circa 100M loans. It's safe to say they owe Lloyds much more than 25MAny Due Diligence is based on validation of historical transactions as recorded, representations from owners/directors and sensitivity analysis of certain exposures(classic car prices for example/FX). There is no scope for a DD to look at Fraud of this nature. Think of a DD as an Audit of specific balances/transactions plus a few extra things which the buyers would have focussed on but essentially they would be looking at the profitability and any assets they were acquiring.
Ive been involved in many and it is usual that the company allow a very limited amount of time, particularly if there is more than one bidder.
RichB said:
Burwood said:
Bottom of page 40
Not to worry, my page size is different to yours as I only have 11 pages and I view from latest page down. I'll go and hunt for a link... The assets are the employees. Bet everything else is SOR or mortgaged.
People who know a classic car as in metal workers, electricians etc and so on are in demand.
Not sure how to do it, but a PH thread for former employees to CV or advertise their skills as SE would I imagine them being deluged with work as opposed to left on scrap heap.
JDC are finished. Could see that many other classic dealers could now be in firing line. This is not isolated.
People who know a classic car as in metal workers, electricians etc and so on are in demand.
Not sure how to do it, but a PH thread for former employees to CV or advertise their skills as SE would I imagine them being deluged with work as opposed to left on scrap heap.
JDC are finished. Could see that many other classic dealers could now be in firing line. This is not isolated.
_Sorted_ said:
The assets are the employees. Bet everything else is SOR or mortgaged.
People who know a classic car as in metal workers, electricians etc and so on are in demand.
Not sure how to do it, but a PH thread for former employees to CV or advertise their skills as SE would I imagine them being deluged with work as opposed to left on scrap heap.
The industry will know who the good guys are, and they'll already be in discussions...People who know a classic car as in metal workers, electricians etc and so on are in demand.
Not sure how to do it, but a PH thread for former employees to CV or advertise their skills as SE would I imagine them being deluged with work as opposed to left on scrap heap.
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