Road Tax £310 annual surcharge April 2017 onwards

[OddCat]

Apologies if this has been done to death - but I can't seem to find the 'search' facility.

Cars registered after 1st April 2017, which had a list price in excess of £40k, suffer a five year additional annual tax of £310 per annum. On AT, all cars from April 2017 have some wording along the lines if the list price was over £40,000 then an extra £310 per annum for the first five years will be payable"

Why don't the sellers confirm ? How would a potential buyer find out ? Surely there must be a simple way ? Surely sellers of cars not subject to the surcharge would be shouting about it ?

I was expecting some kind of "enter registration number here" type website tor confirm rate but I can't see anything....

Thanks

[Pica-Pica]

Here you can enter the V5 document reference number if you know it, and find the tax rates.

https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/EnterV5C

If you ask the seller, if they decline or don’t know, assume it has the surcharge and discount your offer by that amount remaining.

[DaveH23]

OddCat said:

Surely sellers of cars not subject to the surcharge would be shouting about it ?

What a bizzare statement. Why when spending several thousand on a car would a few hundered pound make any difference.

The surcharge is such a tiny portion of the running costs why would it ever get mentioned?

If this cost seriously affects your buying decission then you have to ask the question, is running a car the right thing for you.

[Matt600]

PH challenge - Cheapest used car for sale registered after April 2017 that was £40k+ list brand new, go!

As above, over the ownership period the additional tax cost vs depreciation on something so new would be insignificant

[InitialDave]

DaveH23 said:

What a bizzare statement. Why when spending several thousand on a car would a few hundered pound make any difference.

The surcharge is such a tiny portion of the running costs why would it ever get mentioned?

If this cost seriously affects your buying decission then you have to ask the question, is running a car the right thing for you.

As with the pre/post-2006 situation, if you can buy a car that is nominally identical, but registered a month or two earlier, or a fractionally different spec, and thus sidestep hundreds of pounds a year in charges, why wouldn't you?

[to3m]

DaveH23 said:

What a bizzare statement. Why when spending several thousand on a car would a few hundered pound make any difference.

The surcharge is such a tiny portion of the running costs why would it ever get mentioned?

If this cost seriously affects your buying decission then you have to ask the question, is running a car the right thing for you.

I think your point would be better made if you emphasised the fact that this charge is due only on cars that were £40,000+ when new, and were new, like, not even 1.5 years ago. It's quite likely that these are not going to be "several thousand" pounds. It's much more likely they are going to be "several tens of thousands of pounds". And that means that, yes, £310 is going to be much less of an issue.

If you're widening the net to cars that could cost a mere several thousand pounds, then (a) they almost certainly won't have this charge to start with, and (b) even if they did, a few hundred pounds per year, as a percentage of the TCO, could well be worth paying attention to. (Looking at the TCO of my last car, an annual £310 surcharge would have been something like 12%. Given the choice between paying that, or not, I think I'll go for "not", thanks.)

Edited by to3m on Thursday 23 August 01:16

[anonymous-user]

InitialDave said:

As with the pre/post-2006 situation, if you can buy a car that is nominally identical, but registered a month or two earlier, or a fractionally different spec, and thus sidestep hundreds of pounds a year in charges, why wouldn't you?

Totally agree on this. Just because I’m spending 40k+ does not mean I want to piss away an extra £310 a year on tax if I don’t have to!

[OddCat]

DaveH23 said:

OddCat said:

Surely sellers of cars not subject to the surcharge would be shouting about it ?

What a bizzare statement. Why when spending several thousand on a car would a few hundered pound make any difference.

The surcharge is such a tiny portion of the running costs why would it ever get mentioned?

If this cost seriously affects your buying decision then you have to ask the question, is running a car the right thing for you.

Ehhh? If I'm looking at two cars that are roughly the same (eg 2017 '66' plate and a 2017 '17' plate) why would I buy the one with the £310 extra tax per year? The point of my original post was that I want to know whether I can easily establish if a car is subject to it before I even bother to go and look. It seems that I cannot.

To not consider this you’d have to be from the ‘p*ss the money up the wall, avocado sandwich, three Starbucks lattes a day, £50 per month mobile phone contract’ generation ? Or, sufficiently wealthy that it doesn’t matter.

No wonder the government can get away with such mental, arbitrary, changes if folks are going to just shrug. If people are going to be happy paying £310 per year maybe they should have made it £1,310 per year ?

Schmed said:

Just because I’m spending 40k+ does not mean I want to piss away an extra £310 a year on tax if I don’t have to!

Exactly.

I’m actually looking at spending around £28k for a 66/17/67 car. If the car is subject to the surcharge that’s an extra £1,240 over the next 4 years. Why would I pay that if, by simply choosing wisely, I don’t need to ?

[TooMany2cvs]

OddCat said:

Schmed said:

Just because I’m spending 40k+ does not mean I want to piss away an extra £310 a year on tax if I don’t have to!

I’m actually looking at spending around £28k for a 66/17/67 car. If the car is subject to the surcharge that’s an extra £1,240 over the next 4 years. Why would I pay that if, by simply choosing wisely, I don’t need to ?

Is it that simple?

Sure, there's some cars that are around the £40k mark, where some options or not might tip the balance. But most stuff will either be clearly over or clearly under.

It definitely isn't as simple when you look at just older/newer than the line, because the whole VED setup changed. Everything's a base of £140/year regardless of CO2. So a higher-band (L or M) CO2 car would actually be cheaper even with the £310/year high-list premium, and anything band F or above is cutting into that premium. Take band H - £140 + £310 after the change, £230 before - so the four-year extra cost is £360, nearly 30%, less than it appears to be if you just look at that £310 alone.

The VED still pales into insignificance when you look at all the other costs of ownership over that four years, though...

[RicksAlfas]

OddCat said:

Apologies if this has been done to death - but I can't seem to find the 'search' facility.

Cars registered after 1st April 2017, which had a list price in excess of £40k, suffer a five year additional annual tax of £310 per annum. On AT, all cars from April 2017 have some wording along the lines if the list price was over £40,000 then an extra £310 per annum for the first five years will be payable"

Why don't the sellers confirm ? How would a potential buyer find out ? Surely there must be a simple way ? Surely sellers of cars not subject to the surcharge would be shouting about it ?

I was expecting some kind of "enter registration number here" type website tor confirm rate but I can't see anything....

Thanks

Try https://cartaxcheck.co.uk/

[OddCat]

TooMany2cvs said:

Is it that simple?

Sure, there's some cars that are around the £40k mark, where some options or not might tip the balance. But most stuff will either be clearly over or clearly under.

….but it isn’t clear which are over and which are under. That's the point.

RicksAlfas said:

Try https://cartaxcheck.co.uk/

This doesn’t work. It shows only the base tax and not the surcharge.

Edited by OddCat on Thursday 23 August 12:45

[RicksAlfas]

RicksAlfas said:

Try https://cartaxcheck.co.uk/

This doesn’t work. It shows only the base tax and not the surcharge.

Ah, that's shame. I've found it useful for checking cars around the 2005/6 changeover.

The £40,000 thing is a real oddball. It seems an envy tax, but yet it's a relatively low ceiling.
A well specced 320d hits it. If it was cars over £80,000 it would make a bit more sense, but £40,000?

[OddCat]

Todays challenge then...….

Without contacting the dealer can anyone tell me whether the car below is subject to the £310 per annum surcharge ?

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

[RicksAlfas]

OddCat said:

Todays challenge then...….

Without contacting the dealer can anyone tell me whether the car below is subject to the £310 per annum surcharge ?

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Must be. I can't believe they were ever less than £40,000 list price.

Doesn't something like Parkers tell you original list prices?

[bp1]

I'd say yes as google throws up the 2017 list price for a 335d xdrive msport auto as 43k. Its now over 44k. Any options add to that price as well.

My wifes mustang has a quite deliberate price of 39, 965 to save the 1550 quid in extra tax.

[OddCat]

bp1 said:

My wifes mustang has a quite deliberate price of 39, 965 to save the 1550 quid in extra tax.

…….but that can’t be true because DaveH23 said this earlier in this thread....

DaveH23 said:

Why when spending several thousand on a car would a few hundered pound make any difference.
If this cost seriously affects your buying decission then you have to ask the question, is running a car the right thing for you.

The point continues to be that it isn't possible to find out (independently) whether a car is subject to the surcharge.....

[Glasgowrob]

never understood why manufacturers with cars that are borderline on the 40k don't just drop the list price to something nearer actual sale price.

we all know that 90% of cars are not sold for anything approaching list price, so why not cut the discounts and keep the new cars under this figure?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

OddCat said:

Apologies if this has been done to death - but I can't seem to find the 'search' facility.

Cars registered after 1st April 2017, which had a list price in excess of £40k, suffer a five year additional annual tax of £310 per annum. On AT, all cars from April 2017 have some wording along the lines if the list price was over £40,000 then an extra £310 per annum for the first five years will be payable"

Why don't the sellers confirm ?

Why don't buyers check?

When buying a car, it's my responsibility to find our about fuel economy, insurance costs, road tax price etc. I don't expect a seller to say, especially if it's a negative feature.

"I'm selling my pride and joy. Hideous insurance group, £310 tax surcharge, single figure mpg....first to see will buy."

[nottyash]

It applies to cars costing over £40k LIST price with extras.
So if you buy a car that was £42000 list, and only pay £35000 for it, this scamming government will still tax you for 5 years.

[OddCat]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Why don't buyers check?

….well, it is exactly that for that which I am trying to establish the process. Although it appears no process exists other than to actually asking the seller.

Excellent thread analysis there !

nottyash said:

It applies to cars costing over £40k LIST price with extras.
So if you buy a car that was £42000 list, and only pay £35000 for it, this scamming government will still tax you for 5 years.

.....yes, we know. But, according to others on here, if you can afford a car that was more than £40k list then you should be able to afford the additional £310 per annum and it shouldn't be an issue. In which case the Government played a blinder taking cash off people who didn't mind having cash taken off them. And all of this means I am odd to even be thinking about it......

Edited by OddCat on Thursday 23 August 13:04