F1 vs Indycar, incredible pace difference
Discussion
For the first time ever a direct comparison between F1 and Indycar lap times has been seen as the Indycar Series ran their inaugural event at Circuit Of Americas yesterday.
Fastest lap Indycar: 1.46 seconds
Fastest lap F1: 1.32 seconds
I knew that F1 cars would be quicker but FOURTEEN SECONDS!
Is that F2 pace? Or even F3?
Some of you will know.
Fastest lap Indycar: 1.46 seconds
Fastest lap F1: 1.32 seconds
I knew that F1 cars would be quicker but FOURTEEN SECONDS!
Is that F2 pace? Or even F3?
Some of you will know.
I don’t think it’s a reflection on indycar as such, it’s just their regulations currently. (Although I’m not as up to date on their regs as I was in the past)
Isn’t standard parts, aero and budget caps a part of it?
Without an understanding of their tyre, aero, engine, weight rules it’s hard to gauge.
However, it’s still a big gap.
Isn’t standard parts, aero and budget caps a part of it?
Without an understanding of their tyre, aero, engine, weight rules it’s hard to gauge.
However, it’s still a big gap.
DS240 said:
I don’t think it’s a reflection on indycar as such, it’s just their regulations currently. (Although I’m not as up to date on their regs as I was in the past)
Isn’t standard parts, aero and budget caps a part of it?
Without an understanding of their tyre, aero, engine, weight rules it’s hard to gauge.
However, it’s still a big gap.
I’m not sure how you think you could separate ‘Indycar’ from its rules?Isn’t standard parts, aero and budget caps a part of it?
Without an understanding of their tyre, aero, engine, weight rules it’s hard to gauge.
However, it’s still a big gap.
Of course it could be faster with different ones. So could F1.
On the other hand, with different rules they might each be slower.
DS240 said:
I don’t think it’s a reflection on indycar as such, it’s just their regulations currently. (Although I’m not as up to date on their regs as I was in the past)
Isn’t standard parts, aero and budget caps a part of it?
Without an understanding of their tyre, aero, engine, weight rules it’s hard to gauge.
However, it’s still a big gap.
Budget and stardadised cars are the reason.Isn’t standard parts, aero and budget caps a part of it?
Without an understanding of their tyre, aero, engine, weight rules it’s hard to gauge.
However, it’s still a big gap.
Add up all the team budgets in indycar and you don't have the budget of a single of the F1 top 3 teams.
That budget, along with the standardised cars, means the designers of the cars/components have to play it safe. The problem with cutting edge development (as in F1) is that sometimes ideas don't work out and the car is a failure overall. Can't really risk that happening in a sport like indycar where all cars are the same, and would share the same flaws. So, they keep the car design safe and simple, relative to F1 trickery at least.
cheddar said:
For the first time ever a direct comparison between F1 and Indycar lap times has been seen as the Indycar Series ran their inaugural event at Circuit Of Americas yesterday.
Fastest lap Indycar: 1.46 seconds
Fastest lap F1: 1.32 seconds
I knew that F1 cars would be quicker but FOURTEEN SECONDS!
Is that F2 pace? Or even F3?
Some of you will know.
A friend of mine did a 2:04.4 round there in a Radical SR8, 18 seconds slower than the Indycar. Not sure if I think that makes the Indycar slow or fast, an SR8 is a quick car!Fastest lap Indycar: 1.46 seconds
Fastest lap F1: 1.32 seconds
I knew that F1 cars would be quicker but FOURTEEN SECONDS!
Is that F2 pace? Or even F3?
Some of you will know.
https://youtu.be/Q2jmIPUJakw
Benrad said:
A friend of mine did a 2:04.4 round there in a Radical SR8, 18 seconds slower than the Indycar. Not sure if I think that makes the Indycar slow or fast, an SR8 is a quick car!
https://youtu.be/Q2jmIPUJakw
Compared to either the SR8 is a slow car. Although of course it's also a bloody quick car really. The power to weight ratio of the Radical is well below either an F1 or indycar.https://youtu.be/Q2jmIPUJakw
Also the aero.. Radical operate out of a small industrial unit near to where I used to live, it's a fairly typical home-grown British track car outfit 'run out of a shed'. Let's just say I don't think they have a wind tunnel in there...
As a side story - many years ago I once got a little 'playful' in my old MK2 CRX with the guy that owns Radical, he was in a bright yellow 911. It was all fun and games until he shut the door on me on the exit of a roundabout and I had nowhere to go other than up a grass verge and into the Armco... I think he'd simply assumed he was well ahead of me when he cut across the lane
The CRX was remarkably only lightly scuffed. Still, a good lesson in not messing around on the roads - not that either of us should have needed it.
CanAm said:
The lap record at Indy is over 236mph. I don't think an F1 car has ever had a measured top speed as high as that in race trim.
The Indycar rules have been changed regularly to keep speeds under control and they are now lapping slower than in 1996.
Montoya recorded close to 234mph on a track that had corners you actually have to brake for and properly accelerate out of rather than a lift and single downshiftThe Indycar rules have been changed regularly to keep speeds under control and they are now lapping slower than in 1996.
Yes, 2mph slower, but a lot less of an achievement on an oval compared to a proper track
Robberto said:
CanAm said:
The lap record at Indy is over 236mph. I don't think an F1 car has ever had a measured top speed as high as that in race trim.
The Indycar rules have been changed regularly to keep speeds under control and they are now lapping slower than in 1996.
Montoya recorded close to 234mph on a track that had corners you actually have to brake for and properly accelerate out of rather than a lift and single downshiftThe Indycar rules have been changed regularly to keep speeds under control and they are now lapping slower than in 1996.
Yes, 2mph slower, but a lot less of an achievement on an oval compared to a proper track
It would be interesting to see a like for like run there.
Just goes to show that laptime is pretty irrelevant (to a point) for the racing itself. I've always said a handful of cars battling wheel to wheel at 2 minute laps is far more exciting than a procession at 1:30 laps. Ideally cars battling wheel to wheel at 1:30 would be nice but the priority should be the battles to start with rather than the pursuit of lap time for its own sake.
Robberto said:
Robberto said:
CanAm said:
The lap record at Indy is over 236mph. I don't think an F1 car has ever had a measured top speed as high as that in race trim.
The Indycar rules have been changed regularly to keep speeds under control and they are now lapping slower than in 1996.
Montoya recorded close to 234mph on a track that had corners you actually have to brake for and properly accelerate out of rather than a lift and single downshiftThe Indycar rules have been changed regularly to keep speeds under control and they are now lapping slower than in 1996.
Yes, 2mph slower, but a lot less of an achievement on an oval compared to a proper track
It would be interesting to see a like for like run there.
I watched the COTA round and was also suprised how much slower they were..... good race though!
Watching the Indy Car highlighted everything that is wrong with F1.
Laptimes are not particularly important.
I never noticed the cars were actually slower on screen.
The drivers had to fight to control the cars.
Power outweighed grip.
The cars seemed very robust; the amount of knocks some took and carried on was massively impressive.
The cars did not loose "aero" grip (guessing they didn't have it) when in close range.
The winning car, to me at least as mild fan looking in, was not the team with the biggest budget. Stock/shared parts seemed to do the trick.
The tyres seemed to work - or at least dropped off, but were quicker.
Once the track limits are sorted, its a win for me.
Well done Indy car.
Laptimes are not particularly important.
I never noticed the cars were actually slower on screen.
The drivers had to fight to control the cars.
Power outweighed grip.
The cars seemed very robust; the amount of knocks some took and carried on was massively impressive.
The cars did not loose "aero" grip (guessing they didn't have it) when in close range.
The winning car, to me at least as mild fan looking in, was not the team with the biggest budget. Stock/shared parts seemed to do the trick.
The tyres seemed to work - or at least dropped off, but were quicker.
Once the track limits are sorted, its a win for me.
Well done Indy car.
Daston said:
Shame FE won't run a car at the track so we can see how they compare.
I have been seeing much more indicar feeds on social media, are they ramping up their PR? Also where can you watch it in the UK?
Whole season is live on Sky Sports F1. Uninterupted as well, so no ads, although you can tell when the US go for a very long break....I have been seeing much more indicar feeds on social media, are they ramping up their PR? Also where can you watch it in the UK?
I guess its always good to see some numbers but its no real surprise to anyone that looks at the cars in slightly more depth than just the visual silhouette.
They seem to be running a race series that's reasonably competitive for a lot less money than F1 so that's not bad.
Whole panic that F1 has to keep getting faster and faster reminds me of when someone has to have the latest fastest computer but just reads email with some web browsing and shopping thrown in.
Hopefully liberty will clobber this mentality this week.
They seem to be running a race series that's reasonably competitive for a lot less money than F1 so that's not bad.
Whole panic that F1 has to keep getting faster and faster reminds me of when someone has to have the latest fastest computer but just reads email with some web browsing and shopping thrown in.
Hopefully liberty will clobber this mentality this week.
Henry Fiddleton said:
Watching the Indy Car highlighted everything that is wrong with F1.
Laptimes are not particularly important.
I never noticed the cars were actually slower on screen.
The drivers had to fight to control the cars.
Power outweighed grip.
The cars seemed very robust; the amount of knocks some took and carried on was massively impressive.
The cars did not loose "aero" grip (guessing they didn't have it) when in close range.
The winning car, to me at least as mild fan looking in, was not the team with the biggest budget. Stock/shared parts seemed to do the trick.
The tyres seemed to work - or at least dropped off, but were quicker.
Once the track limits are sorted, its a win for me.
Well done Indy car.
The reason most of the above is different, is that it's made possible by Indycar being a sport all about the driver. So they don't have to worry about the outright performance of the cars, and as you note, can focus instead on making the cars as robust as they can do, whilst still maintaining enough grip and speed to make for 'fast' racing. All the cars are effectively the same, so it doesn't really matter what the level of down force is, so long as it's sufficient to race. Same for top line speed, all approx the same, so it doesn't matter what it is, so long as it's fast enough to look fast to the audience.Laptimes are not particularly important.
I never noticed the cars were actually slower on screen.
The drivers had to fight to control the cars.
Power outweighed grip.
The cars seemed very robust; the amount of knocks some took and carried on was massively impressive.
The cars did not loose "aero" grip (guessing they didn't have it) when in close range.
The winning car, to me at least as mild fan looking in, was not the team with the biggest budget. Stock/shared parts seemed to do the trick.
The tyres seemed to work - or at least dropped off, but were quicker.
Once the track limits are sorted, its a win for me.
Well done Indy car.
In F1 the cars/constructors are also competing, so the teams have to be free to develop their own cars and components. That does lead to far more fragile cars and sensitive cars.
I personally like the dual aspect of F1, I like the off track development race and the twists and turns it throws up throughout each season. But I will admit I would also like the idea of finding out which driver is 'best' on a level playing field - which Indycar offers.
How is this for an idea: After each F1 season completes, all drivers are handed an Indycar and have one more race. It would be pretty epic for an F1 driver to win the WDC - AND, then go on to prove that when everyone has the same car, he is still quickest.. or not.
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