No tax... but then bib pretends to remember me???
Discussion
Was done tonight for no tax - 2 days after buying the car, whilst waiting for my cover note to come through. 
Stupid law, you should get at least 7 days grace, but that's not the Police's fault.
Obviously I was hoping the officier would be able to excercise some discression and let me off with a warning, so I was totally polite and presented all my documentation to show I had just bought the car. It wouldn't be so bad if he said "I'm really sorry, but I've no choice but to give you this ticket, the law is the law" etc. But instead he really laid into me, telling me that he was going to impound the car and do me for no insurance!
Anyway, the thing that really bothers and confuses me is this... He then phoned HQ to check my details, and I could tell by the tone of his "Oh..." and raised eyebrows that they had told him about a driving offence I committed 6 years ago. But instead of asking me about this he then proceded to pretend that he remembered me and my name, kept saying "that name rings a bell", "it'll come back to me..." - but in a badly acted over dramatic way. Eventually he asked me if I'd ever been in trouble before, so I said "yes, 6 years ago", and then he said "Ah, <such an offence>, I remember you now!".
The offence was so trivial, so long ago, not dealt with by him, and under a different police force - there is no way he "remembered" me. So why the lies? Are they allowed to keep that info on their records after 5 years? Or was the play acting just part of his attempt to intimidate me?
Was pulled again by a different car a few hundred yards up the road (over zealous ANPR setup I think!). But this bib had a totally different attitude, was friendly, and expressed sympathy with my circumstances. It makes a big difference!
>> Edited by zetecuk on Saturday 21st May 02:17
Stupid law, you should get at least 7 days grace, but that's not the Police's fault. Obviously I was hoping the officier would be able to excercise some discression and let me off with a warning, so I was totally polite and presented all my documentation to show I had just bought the car. It wouldn't be so bad if he said "I'm really sorry, but I've no choice but to give you this ticket, the law is the law" etc. But instead he really laid into me, telling me that he was going to impound the car and do me for no insurance!
Anyway, the thing that really bothers and confuses me is this... He then phoned HQ to check my details, and I could tell by the tone of his "Oh..." and raised eyebrows that they had told him about a driving offence I committed 6 years ago. But instead of asking me about this he then proceded to pretend that he remembered me and my name, kept saying "that name rings a bell", "it'll come back to me..." - but in a badly acted over dramatic way. Eventually he asked me if I'd ever been in trouble before, so I said "yes, 6 years ago", and then he said "Ah, <such an offence>, I remember you now!".
The offence was so trivial, so long ago, not dealt with by him, and under a different police force - there is no way he "remembered" me. So why the lies? Are they allowed to keep that info on their records after 5 years? Or was the play acting just part of his attempt to intimidate me?
Was pulled again by a different car a few hundred yards up the road (over zealous ANPR setup I think!). But this bib had a totally different attitude, was friendly, and expressed sympathy with my circumstances. It makes a big difference!
>> Edited by zetecuk on Saturday 21st May 02:17
Driving without valid road tax displayed is quite clearly asking for it though, wouldn't you say? Especially if you can't prove you have insurance. I suspect the BiB must hear stories like your all the time, I accept it was true in your case but I expect the police would get pretty cynical about this as an excuse for driving without tax or (proof of) insurance.
The tax disc fell off my bike, cheap holder provided by the dealer (BMW)fell to pieces. I rode the thing for ages before getting round to replacing it. 7 quid bloody rip-off
Your plod sounds like a jobsworth, perhaps he should have been a traffic warden (clown). I would have told him to get on and book me or feck off!!
>> Edited by outrider on Saturday 21st May 18:00
Your plod sounds like a jobsworth, perhaps he should have been a traffic warden (clown). I would have told him to get on and book me or feck off!!
>> Edited by outrider on Saturday 21st May 18:00
outrider said:
The tax disc fell off my bike, cheap holder provided by the dealer (BMW)fell to pieces. I rode the thing for ages before getting round to replacing it. 7 quid bloody rip-off
It's clearly an offense, it's obvious to any BiB glancing at your bike, why take the chance? If caught you haven't got a leg to stand on.
Byff said:
You bought it 2 days ago with no tax and yet you still used it on the road.
Sorry, but I'd have got it home, parked it up and not used it till the cover note came through and the thing was taxed.
You were asking for trouble IMHO.
I assume you would have had the car trailered to your spare off road parking spot?
I agree with the thread starter..it is a ridiculous law. Having no road tax two days after buying a car should make no difference. It is not our fault that you can't tax a car until you get the insurance paperwork in the post is it?
hedders said:
I assume you would have had the car trailered to your spare off road parking spot?
Yes, either that or paid for the seller to tax it before I collected it, or left it with them for two days while I sorted out the paperwork.
It's an offense to drive or keep the car on public roads without a valid tax disc displayed. Black and white, that's all there is to it. If you decide to drive it without tax, that's your call but don't expect any sympathy when you're caught.
I had exactly the same senario a few years ago, just bought a car (had sold the previous one) phoned my insurance company, they have to post cover notes. Anyway I had to go to work on the Monday (car was bought on Friday) no other way of getting there. Got pulled on the M27 with no tax, the BiB gave me a producer which he had also written "Valid Tax disc", he told me if I taxed the car and back dated to begininng on month NFA.
>> Edited by alans on Sunday 22 May 12:47
>> Edited by alans on Sunday 22 May 12:47
Byff said:
You bought it 2 days ago with no tax and yet you still used it on the road.
Sorry, but I'd have got it home, parked it up and not used it till the cover note came through and the thing was taxed.
You were asking for trouble IMHO.
So I should have trailered it from the dealer 100 miles away who refused to tax it for me? I could have done I suppose but a £60 fine would be cheaper! And probably cheaper than getting the train + taxi to work everyday until my cover-note came through. Like I said the fine doesn't bother me, I knowingly took the risk and got caught out, no big deal. I probably give £60 to the government everytime I fill the thing up anyway!
I don't dispute that I broke the law. My point was that the law is stupid, and the copper's attitude towards me was bizzare, like he was upset that I had proof to back up my story, all my documentation, and 4 brand new tyres. He was itching to slap some points on me for something!
zetecuk said:
You bought it 2 days ago with no tax and yet you still used it on the road.
Sorry, but I'd have got it home, parked it up and not used it till the cover note came through and the thing was taxed.
You were asking for trouble IMHO.
So I should have trailered it from the dealer 100 miles away who refused to tax it for me? I could have done I suppose but a £60 fine would be cheaper! And probably cheaper than getting the train + taxi to work everyday until my cover-note came through. Like I said the fine doesn't bother me, I knowingly took the risk and got caught out, no big deal. I probably give £60 to the government everytime I fill the thing up anyway!
I don't dispute that I broke the law. My point was that the law is stupid, and the copper's attitude towards me was bizzare, like he was upset that I had proof to back up my story, all my documentation, and 4 brand new tyres. He was itching to slap some points on me for something!
Why is a law that sorts out drivers with no tax (and potentially no insurance etc) stupid? These are the people who we don't want on the road afterall.
Sorry you got caught out but I think that anything that punishes untaxed and uninsured drivers is good. Why should I have to pay road tax etc and not someone else. As you may well know these are also the sort of people who will most probably be the most lethal on the road.
You say that you were well aware that you may get caught so you knew the risks, why moan then?
BIB sounds like a power trip boy though!!!
Tough luck getting caught. Yes the rules are black and white, but from time to time it can also be difficult to comply with them and this is where the system ought to be capable of employing some descretion.
If you've just bought a car, what is the harm caused by driving it for a few days untaxed if, as in this case, you are waiting for insurance paperwork to arrive? None, surely? Why should one have to muck around with a trailer just to ensure that your car is 8 inches above the road, rather than on it?
DVLA's rules can also make it nigh on impossible to tax a car. My car tax expired at the end of last month. I have been out of the country for several months. There is no way of renewing road tax without physically being in the UK. Why?
So I had to take a day off work, come back to th UK to make a pilgramage to the DVLA office in Maidstone where I queued for 4 hours in order to do 5 minutes worth of business. This is insane.
If you've just bought a car, what is the harm caused by driving it for a few days untaxed if, as in this case, you are waiting for insurance paperwork to arrive? None, surely? Why should one have to muck around with a trailer just to ensure that your car is 8 inches above the road, rather than on it?
DVLA's rules can also make it nigh on impossible to tax a car. My car tax expired at the end of last month. I have been out of the country for several months. There is no way of renewing road tax without physically being in the UK. Why?
So I had to take a day off work, come back to th UK to make a pilgramage to the DVLA office in Maidstone where I queued for 4 hours in order to do 5 minutes worth of business. This is insane.
It's a sensible law that stops scumbags from driving around without tax or insurance. Nobody has ever pretended that there is any grace period, the law is there in black and white. You seem to be suggesting that because it was inconvenient to you, it was OK for you to ignore it and the BiB should have looked the other way? As far as I'm concerned, you knew the risk so you have no grounds for complaint when you get caught out.
Not wanting to add to your woes, but had the car tax just run out or had the previous owner applied for Statutary Off Road Notice? Driving whilst a car has an SORN could compound your problems.
Not that it helps much now, but most insurance companies will issue a temporary cover note and use special delivery to post to you. You can post date the cover note and if, on seeing the car, you decide not to buy it you can call up the insurance compnay and have the cover note cancelled for little or no charge.
The cover note and car registration document (or tax reminder) are all you need to get a tax disc.
MC
Not that it helps much now, but most insurance companies will issue a temporary cover note and use special delivery to post to you. You can post date the cover note and if, on seeing the car, you decide not to buy it you can call up the insurance compnay and have the cover note cancelled for little or no charge.
The cover note and car registration document (or tax reminder) are all you need to get a tax disc.
MC
I have to wonder why the DVLA keep harping on about their great computer system yet still rely on the police to do their work.
Sure it's technically illegal but then it's not illegal for the insurance companies and the postal system to take the p to, let's face it, their customers.
When I bought my car brand new last year, the cover note failed to arrive at the dealer even with 4 days notice. Thankfully I received the insurance documents the day before I picked the car up but then had a 50-mile dash to the dealer - in this case I was lucky - I also had that day off work. But that's not the point, is it?
TBH the real problem here is ordinary people trying to get on with their lives and being thwarted at every turn.
Sure it's technically illegal but then it's not illegal for the insurance companies and the postal system to take the p to, let's face it, their customers.
When I bought my car brand new last year, the cover note failed to arrive at the dealer even with 4 days notice. Thankfully I received the insurance documents the day before I picked the car up but then had a 50-mile dash to the dealer - in this case I was lucky - I also had that day off work. But that's not the point, is it?
TBH the real problem here is ordinary people trying to get on with their lives and being thwarted at every turn.
GreenV8S said:
It's a sensible law that stops scumbags from driving around without tax or insurance. Nobody has ever pretended that there is any grace period, the law is there in black and white. You seem to be suggesting that because it was inconvenient to you, it was OK for you to ignore it and the BiB should have looked the other way? As far as I'm concerned, you knew the risk so you have no grounds for complaint when you get caught out.
It's a stupid inflexible law that should provide some exemption for exactly this situation. As long as the car is taxed from the month in which it was first used by the new owner, what is the problem?
e.g. if the owner is stopped and can show they have just bought the car, the BIB could make a note of the cars and owners details and pass them onto DVLA. If the car isn't taxed within a reasonable length of time e.g. 1-2 weeks then the owner can be fined/prosecuted.
This allows the car drive to legaly use the car whilst waiting for e.g. a cover note or on a Sunday when virtualy no Post Offices are open (providing it is shown as MOT'd and insured on the relevant databases).
GreenV8S said:
It's a sensible law that stops scumbags from driving around without tax or insurance. Nobody has ever pretended that there is any grace period, the law is there in black and white. You seem to be suggesting that because it was inconvenient to you, it was OK for you to ignore it and the BiB should have looked the other way? As far as I'm concerned, you knew the risk so you have no grounds for complaint when you get caught out.
You sound like the guy who pulled me! I'm not complaining about getting caught, that is fair enough. I'm complaining about a daft law and an unpleasant copper. What would be the harm in allowing people 7 days to get their tax if they have proof that they have just bought the car? (and obviously giving them a producer for the insurance).
Or even a half decent computerised system where you can change your details online or by phone and pay for your tax by direct debit as soon as you buy your car, which would automatically be cross-referenced against insurance and MOT records... (I know I'm having a laugh with that one!)
The current sytem is a half computerised, half paperwork mess, that just makes it difficult for law abiding people to do the right thing.
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