UK Schools: Religious Freedom vs Secular Values Issue
Discussion
https://news.sky.com/story/the-parents-who-say-the...
It's starting to become a 'thing' now with opposition to lessons that make pupils aware of same sex couples spreading out from Birmingham to the rest of the country. The National Association of Head Teachers says letters have been sent to more than 50 schools across seven parts of the UK from religious parents unhappy about the teaching.
Mainly Muslim schools BUT Christian and Jewish activists are involved as well now.
So who decides what Children learn about the society they are going to grow up in? The (secular) State or the (religious) Parent?
Should kids be taught that parenting comes in many flavours and that none are 'wrong' - just 'different'?
Personally I go with the state on this one but others may differ. It's 2019.
The government insists that when compulsory relationship lessons begin from September 2020 parents will not get a veto. It is a stance that will not go down well with the protesters and I can see it really kicking off then.
It's starting to become a 'thing' now with opposition to lessons that make pupils aware of same sex couples spreading out from Birmingham to the rest of the country. The National Association of Head Teachers says letters have been sent to more than 50 schools across seven parts of the UK from religious parents unhappy about the teaching.
Mainly Muslim schools BUT Christian and Jewish activists are involved as well now.
So who decides what Children learn about the society they are going to grow up in? The (secular) State or the (religious) Parent?
Should kids be taught that parenting comes in many flavours and that none are 'wrong' - just 'different'?
Personally I go with the state on this one but others may differ. It's 2019.
The government insists that when compulsory relationship lessons begin from September 2020 parents will not get a veto. It is a stance that will not go down well with the protesters and I can see it really kicking off then.
Remember the time it looked like the UK was shaking off religion ? Ditching the tame C of E gibberish , leaving a low level of rubbish for religious schools to still try and push into kids heads while they are still soft. Well that's gone now, a much more virulent religion is reversing that.
I get angry at this.
These people without a hint of recognition of their own rank hypocrisy talk about indoctrination, accusing the LGBT community of having an ideology. It's an old trope. 'The gay agenda'. Fear mongering at its most absurd.
Explaining gay people to a child is not hard: "Susan and John love each other very much and are married, Steve and Bert love each other very much and got married, Mary and Abigal love each other very much and got married."
Literally that simple.
The reason the religious activists hate this kind of education is that it is yet another awkward thorn that threatens to poke a jole in their religion; a bit like how learning about evolution and the Big Bang is a massive contradiction to their creation stories.
I suspect for the parents, their primary concern is an irrational fear that mere knowledge of LGBT people will turn their kids gay. Never mind that it doesn't work like that and never has.
These people without a hint of recognition of their own rank hypocrisy talk about indoctrination, accusing the LGBT community of having an ideology. It's an old trope. 'The gay agenda'. Fear mongering at its most absurd.
Explaining gay people to a child is not hard: "Susan and John love each other very much and are married, Steve and Bert love each other very much and got married, Mary and Abigal love each other very much and got married."
Literally that simple.
The reason the religious activists hate this kind of education is that it is yet another awkward thorn that threatens to poke a jole in their religion; a bit like how learning about evolution and the Big Bang is a massive contradiction to their creation stories.
I suspect for the parents, their primary concern is an irrational fear that mere knowledge of LGBT people will turn their kids gay. Never mind that it doesn't work like that and never has.
amusingduck said:
Religion should be stripped of all special treatment in law
this ^ if kids are able to learn about imaginary sky fairies in school, i'm bloody sure they should be able to learn about the realities of life as well.remove religious education for anyone below the age of 18 and it wouldn't be too long before this crap dies out.
State provided education should follow state laws etc (Eg same sex parenting is legal, it should be taught about appropriately).
If people want something different, pay for it via the private school system. Which itself should be very closely monitored to ensure extremism isn't being hammered into kids, and that the existence of other options is at least available - tolerance.
Intolerance towards religion needs to be calmed down too though. It doesn't resolve anything. It doesn't make people inclined to stop believing in their "sky fairies" or "pixies" or whatever grown up phrase you wish to attach to it. It potentially does exactly the opposite.
A tolerant society has to tolerate the intolerant (within the law).
If people want something different, pay for it via the private school system. Which itself should be very closely monitored to ensure extremism isn't being hammered into kids, and that the existence of other options is at least available - tolerance.
Intolerance towards religion needs to be calmed down too though. It doesn't resolve anything. It doesn't make people inclined to stop believing in their "sky fairies" or "pixies" or whatever grown up phrase you wish to attach to it. It potentially does exactly the opposite.
A tolerant society has to tolerate the intolerant (within the law).
Rivenink said:
Explaining gay people to a child is not hard: "Susan and John love each other very much and are married, Steve and Bert love each other very much and got married, Mary and Abigal love each other very much and got married."
“But Sir/Mrs last week at our after school religious studies class the Imam/Rabbi/Priest told us that being gay is bad and that god doesn’t like men being with men and women being with women so does this mean that Steve, Bert, Mary and Abigail are going to hell?”Murph7355 said:
State provided education should follow state laws etc (Eg same sex parenting is legal, it should be taught about appropriately).
If people want something different, pay for it via the private school system. Which itself should be very closely monitored to ensure extremism isn't being hammered into kids, and that the existence of other options is at least available - tolerance.
Intolerance towards religion needs to be calmed down too though. It doesn't resolve anything. It doesn't make people inclined to stop believing in their "sky fairies" or "pixies" or whatever grown up phrase you wish to attach to it. It potentially does exactly the opposite.
A tolerant society has to tolerate the intolerant (within the law).
i'm quite happy for consenting adults to practice any religion they wish to. not so happy at gullible kids being taught religion at school, any school, not just state run schools.If people want something different, pay for it via the private school system. Which itself should be very closely monitored to ensure extremism isn't being hammered into kids, and that the existence of other options is at least available - tolerance.
Intolerance towards religion needs to be calmed down too though. It doesn't resolve anything. It doesn't make people inclined to stop believing in their "sky fairies" or "pixies" or whatever grown up phrase you wish to attach to it. It potentially does exactly the opposite.
A tolerant society has to tolerate the intolerant (within the law).
wc98 said:
amusingduck said:
Religion should be stripped of all special treatment in law
remove religious education for anyone below the age of 18 and it wouldn't be too long before this crap dies out.As a Christian I'm more than happy to strip all religion from schools completely.
However, anyone who comes onto a public forum such as this one and thinks it's okay to abuse anyone's religious beliefs is far more dangerous in their passive aggressiveness than any RE lessons in a school.
Education should be neutral and cover everything, science, art, sports and religions.
However for society to rub along happily, you can't expect the religious nut-jobs to be quiet when you dismiss and ridicule them.....
However, anyone who comes onto a public forum such as this one and thinks it's okay to abuse anyone's religious beliefs is far more dangerous in their passive aggressiveness than any RE lessons in a school.
Education should be neutral and cover everything, science, art, sports and religions.
However for society to rub along happily, you can't expect the religious nut-jobs to be quiet when you dismiss and ridicule them.....
Given that, in the bad/good old days most of us PHers had lots of helpings of religion spoon-fed to us (Morning assembly/hymn/prayers, RE lessons, Sunday School, Boys Brigade), how did we all manage to survive the brainwashing?
I have a feeling that the kids currently being brainwashed will be equally adept at "surviving". in relation to parents not being happy about their kids being taught sexy stuff.......
I have a feeling that the kids currently being brainwashed will be equally adept at "surviving". in relation to parents not being happy about their kids being taught sexy stuff.......
dundarach said:
However for society to rub along happily, you can't expect the religious nut-jobs to be quiet when you dismiss and ridicule them.....
It's the rank hypocrisy tbh. Accusations of indoctrinating kids with "the LGBT ideology" when they literally brainwash their offspring with convictions that their religion is the only one that is right.
If you only introduced religion at 16, do you think your religion would have many adherents?
Countdown said:
Given that, in the bad/good old days most of us PHers had lots of helpings of religion spoon-fed to us (Morning assembly/hymn/prayers, RE lessons, Sunday School, Boys Brigade), how did we all manage to survive the brainwashing?
The religion spoon fed to us wasn't Islam. That's how we survived the brainwashing. MX5Biologist said:
wc98 said:
amusingduck said:
Religion should be stripped of all special treatment in law
remove religious education for anyone below the age of 18 and it wouldn't be too long before this crap dies out."The Communist regime targeted religions based on State interests, and while most organized religions were never outlawed, religious property was confiscated, believers were harassed, and religion was ridiculed while atheism was propagated in schools."
Generally RE it is not taught much in France. It wasn't taught at all in the state system until 2015, when they started to bring in some "religious facts"
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