993 C4S purchase assistance please.
Discussion
I would appreciate some of your excellent advice regarding the following.
I have viewed a 1996(P reg)C4S with 55,000 miles, FPSH, Polar Silver with black leather interior.
New P zero's on rear and fronts 3000 miles ago.
The car has done 5000 miles in the last 3 years and is VGC throughout.
It is booked in to have the front brakes replaced next week and MOT carried out at Porsche centre.
My concerns, which you guys may be of help with are as follows;
The Air Con is not working....surprise surprise, but how much to put right and is it a big deal, being in the North of Jockland ???
The clutch is the original, so how much life is typically left and how much to replace ??
Last service was 1 year ago but the car has only covered 1000 miles since, should it be serviced ???
The leather sports seats look a bit faded around the area where the driver rubs in and out, is this commom and can it be restored or treated.??
When the car is in for brake replacement next week the owner has no problem if I arrange for the Porsche dealer to carry out a PPI for myself. The seller appears very genuine and nothing to hide. Is this the best way to find out the true faults ???
Finally I would appreciate a ball park value of car, as it is not yet up for sale and I am looking to do a deal with the owner if we can agree a mutual price prior to him placing an advert, but £35K is what he is hoping for.
I, of course will have to consider possible clutch replacement and service if required.
Appreciate any help.
I have viewed a 1996(P reg)C4S with 55,000 miles, FPSH, Polar Silver with black leather interior.
New P zero's on rear and fronts 3000 miles ago.
The car has done 5000 miles in the last 3 years and is VGC throughout.
It is booked in to have the front brakes replaced next week and MOT carried out at Porsche centre.
My concerns, which you guys may be of help with are as follows;
The Air Con is not working....surprise surprise, but how much to put right and is it a big deal, being in the North of Jockland ???
The clutch is the original, so how much life is typically left and how much to replace ??
Last service was 1 year ago but the car has only covered 1000 miles since, should it be serviced ???
The leather sports seats look a bit faded around the area where the driver rubs in and out, is this commom and can it be restored or treated.??
When the car is in for brake replacement next week the owner has no problem if I arrange for the Porsche dealer to carry out a PPI for myself. The seller appears very genuine and nothing to hide. Is this the best way to find out the true faults ???
Finally I would appreciate a ball park value of car, as it is not yet up for sale and I am looking to do a deal with the owner if we can agree a mutual price prior to him placing an advert, but £35K is what he is hoping for.
I, of course will have to consider possible clutch replacement and service if required.
Appreciate any help.
The Air Con is not working....surprise surprise, but how much to put right and is it a big deal, being in the North of Jockland ???
> If it just needs a recharge, it shouldn't cost more than about £100. If it loses that charge quickly then it'll need new seals, then you're looking at hundreds. If the compressor is seized, than you may even be looking at 4 figures to replace the compressor and re-seal and re-gas.
The clutch is the original, so how much life is typically left and how much to replace ??
> People usually talk about 50 to 60k miles on a n/a 993 clutch, but my C4S had its first clutch replacement at 82k miles. So how long is that piece of string again? Someone who really knows 993's will be able to tell how close the clutch is by the feel of the pedal after even the shortest of drives (i'm not kidding - even i can tell now!).
Last service was 1 year ago but the car has only covered 1000 miles since, should it be serviced ???
> Yes. Was the last one a 12k or 24k service? Whatever it was, get the other done. Brake fluid needs doing every 2 years also. If you buy this car, make sure you do more than 1000 miles a year eh?
The leather sports seats look a bit faded around the area where the driver rubs in and out, is this commom and can it be restored or treated.??
> aceparts (alan) had some seat dye a while back which he got from some specialist. think it's better at restoring colour than changing it...
When the car is in for brake replacement next week the owner has no problem if I arrange for the Porsche dealer to carry out a PPI for myself. The seller appears very genuine and nothing to hide. Is this the best way to find out the true faults ???
> how much do you trust the OPC?
Finally I would appreciate a ball park value of car, as it is not yet up for sale and I am looking to do a deal with the owner if we can agree a mutual price prior to him placing an advert, but £35K is what he is hoping for.
> RHD right? Sounds like he's in the right ball park, but i think your best bet is to see what else is available and how much for. If you got new brakes, new tyres, and new clutch for 35k you'd have a good deal for sure. Them front discs are £300 a pair for a start!
Hope this is useful. Feel free to ask any more questions, i have looked at dozens of 993's over the last few years, and have owned a C4S myself (good choice by the way!).
VS
> If it just needs a recharge, it shouldn't cost more than about £100. If it loses that charge quickly then it'll need new seals, then you're looking at hundreds. If the compressor is seized, than you may even be looking at 4 figures to replace the compressor and re-seal and re-gas.
The clutch is the original, so how much life is typically left and how much to replace ??
> People usually talk about 50 to 60k miles on a n/a 993 clutch, but my C4S had its first clutch replacement at 82k miles. So how long is that piece of string again? Someone who really knows 993's will be able to tell how close the clutch is by the feel of the pedal after even the shortest of drives (i'm not kidding - even i can tell now!).
Last service was 1 year ago but the car has only covered 1000 miles since, should it be serviced ???
> Yes. Was the last one a 12k or 24k service? Whatever it was, get the other done. Brake fluid needs doing every 2 years also. If you buy this car, make sure you do more than 1000 miles a year eh?
The leather sports seats look a bit faded around the area where the driver rubs in and out, is this commom and can it be restored or treated.??
> aceparts (alan) had some seat dye a while back which he got from some specialist. think it's better at restoring colour than changing it...
When the car is in for brake replacement next week the owner has no problem if I arrange for the Porsche dealer to carry out a PPI for myself. The seller appears very genuine and nothing to hide. Is this the best way to find out the true faults ???
> how much do you trust the OPC?
Finally I would appreciate a ball park value of car, as it is not yet up for sale and I am looking to do a deal with the owner if we can agree a mutual price prior to him placing an advert, but £35K is what he is hoping for.
> RHD right? Sounds like he's in the right ball park, but i think your best bet is to see what else is available and how much for. If you got new brakes, new tyres, and new clutch for 35k you'd have a good deal for sure. Them front discs are £300 a pair for a start!
Hope this is useful. Feel free to ask any more questions, i have looked at dozens of 993's over the last few years, and have owned a C4S myself (good choice by the way!).
VS
I bought a 993 C4S 18 months ago and enjoyed every second behind the wheel.
My aircon had a regas at pre-delivery service and promptly stopped working about a month later. Apparently the AC condenser which lives in one of the front wheel arches had rotted and got holed by a stone therfore needing replacement. The dealer very kindly paid most of the bill but it was still an £1100 npound job.
A clutch is similar money, ask me how I know...
As for money, a good RHD C4S at 55k miles is going be about 35k in a private sale and the same car at a dealer about 38k although I have seen even higher (Specialist Cars of Malton), which I shan't pretend to understand.
The big question is that you can get a turbo for that money, so which one do you really want...
My aircon had a regas at pre-delivery service and promptly stopped working about a month later. Apparently the AC condenser which lives in one of the front wheel arches had rotted and got holed by a stone therfore needing replacement. The dealer very kindly paid most of the bill but it was still an £1100 npound job.
A clutch is similar money, ask me how I know...
As for money, a good RHD C4S at 55k miles is going be about 35k in a private sale and the same car at a dealer about 38k although I have seen even higher (Specialist Cars of Malton), which I shan't pretend to understand.
The big question is that you can get a turbo for that money, so which one do you really want...
Just bought one - 74k mls with supercharger
V happy with it - I would post a picture if I knew how
Sounds like you need to put a bit of cash aside for clutch etc. Other thing to check a this mileage apparently are shocks - Certainly if I am pressing on over rough roads it can get a bit choppy, but you don't notice it at everyday speed or by bouncing on the car
Just occasionally I wonder what a basic C2 would be like, even a lightweight as the C4S is as much GT as sports I think.
V happy with it - I would post a picture if I knew how
Sounds like you need to put a bit of cash aside for clutch etc. Other thing to check a this mileage apparently are shocks - Certainly if I am pressing on over rough roads it can get a bit choppy, but you don't notice it at everyday speed or by bouncing on the car
Just occasionally I wonder what a basic C2 would be like, even a lightweight as the C4S is as much GT as sports I think.
Verysideways and Ian,
Thanks for the reply.
Firstly to clarify a couple of your points.
The car is a UK vehicle, RHD, 6 speed manual, full electrics.
I do want the C4S as my preferred choice.
I have done my homework through Pistonheads, 911UK and Top Marques for prices, so have a fair idea of current asking prices, they seem to be holding quite firm and although I do not assume it will appreciate, hopefully I will not loose my shirt over say the next 3 years, when the car will have 70000 miles on the clock. That said, the car is for me to enjoy and not an investment.
I intend to do 5000 miles min per year and will be touring France this summer if I get one in time.
I do not have much experience with Aberdeen Porsche centre, but have spoke to a few regarding them and no horror stories to tell, apart from hourly costs....I may stand corrected here!!
The present owner does not intend to replace the clutch, but I would hope to negotiate a discount for a replacement, assuming it will need done soonish.
By the way when the clutch does start to go, is it usually a gradual thing or can it become terminal very rapidly.?? (Ian.."how do you know"
I shall check on the last service and also take into account in my potential offer, can I assume £300 - £500 for that, depending if 12k or 24k ?
Tell me about drilling the airbox ??
RSR exhaust sounds good, what is the ball park life of the standard exhaust, and cost of RSR against standard replacement.?
Finally the Air con., is it really worth bothering about if it is so tepremental, sounds like it may be worth a re-gas but not a grand to put right....comments please ?
Thanks in advance and much appreciate the feedback.
Charlie
Thanks for the reply.
Firstly to clarify a couple of your points.
The car is a UK vehicle, RHD, 6 speed manual, full electrics.
I do want the C4S as my preferred choice.
I have done my homework through Pistonheads, 911UK and Top Marques for prices, so have a fair idea of current asking prices, they seem to be holding quite firm and although I do not assume it will appreciate, hopefully I will not loose my shirt over say the next 3 years, when the car will have 70000 miles on the clock. That said, the car is for me to enjoy and not an investment.
I intend to do 5000 miles min per year and will be touring France this summer if I get one in time.
I do not have much experience with Aberdeen Porsche centre, but have spoke to a few regarding them and no horror stories to tell, apart from hourly costs....I may stand corrected here!!
The present owner does not intend to replace the clutch, but I would hope to negotiate a discount for a replacement, assuming it will need done soonish.
By the way when the clutch does start to go, is it usually a gradual thing or can it become terminal very rapidly.?? (Ian.."how do you know"
I shall check on the last service and also take into account in my potential offer, can I assume £300 - £500 for that, depending if 12k or 24k ?
Tell me about drilling the airbox ??
RSR exhaust sounds good, what is the ball park life of the standard exhaust, and cost of RSR against standard replacement.?
Finally the Air con., is it really worth bothering about if it is so tepremental, sounds like it may be worth a re-gas but not a grand to put right....comments please ?
Thanks in advance and much appreciate the feedback.
Charlie
Hi Charlie,
By the way when the clutch does start to go, is it usually a gradual thing or can it become terminal very rapidly?
> it's gradual in that you can feel it getting heavier over a period of time, and then one day you're accelerating hard and it starts to slip in 4th/5th at half revs and WOT. You can then book it in for a new clutch (£1k) which your indie will tell you can be done in 24 hours, but not for another 3 weeks. You can nurse it for those 3 weeks though, and not get left behind by other traffic on the road.
I shall check on the last service and also take into account in my potential offer, can I assume £300 - £500 for that, depending if 12k or 24k ?
>Indie yes, OPC probably a good deal more.
Tell me about drilling the airbox ??
> The motorsound airbox has a sort of chromed intake hole and some holes in the side of the airbox cover. If you take a standard airbox cover off and look on the inside of it you will see an area about 6 inches by 8 inches which is pock marked - drill these holes out and you've got your own motorsound airbox. Or alternatively buy one for £80 and keep your standard one for quieter moments.
RSR exhaust sounds good, what is the ball park life of the standard exhaust, and cost of RSR against standard replacement.?
> Life? These things are built like the proverbial sh*t house, and are made of stainless. The mufflers could last indefinitely. If you order the RSR boxes, they come to you and you try them. If you like them, you send your original boxes plus 400 euro back to Gert @ www.carnewal.com (exchange), if you don't like them you send them back and put your standard boxes back on and it's cost you postage, that's it.
Finally the Air con., is it really worth bothering about if it is so tepremental, sounds like it may be worth a re-gas but not a grand to put right....comments please ?
> It's not really that bad. If you use the aircon at least once every couple of weeks, all year round, for 10 minutes, this gives the whole system a work out. That means the compressor and seals all get lubricated. If you DON'T, then the seals will dry out and crack. And the compressor can seize. If the seals crack then all your refrigerant will leak out. Then the compressor will cease to operate because it can tell there's no pressure for it to work with. A simple charge with dye will tell you if the compressor still works or not, and then you just have to see if the gas leaks out again (the dye will indicate the seals that need replacement).
How's that?
VS
By the way when the clutch does start to go, is it usually a gradual thing or can it become terminal very rapidly?
> it's gradual in that you can feel it getting heavier over a period of time, and then one day you're accelerating hard and it starts to slip in 4th/5th at half revs and WOT. You can then book it in for a new clutch (£1k) which your indie will tell you can be done in 24 hours, but not for another 3 weeks. You can nurse it for those 3 weeks though, and not get left behind by other traffic on the road.
I shall check on the last service and also take into account in my potential offer, can I assume £300 - £500 for that, depending if 12k or 24k ?
>Indie yes, OPC probably a good deal more.
Tell me about drilling the airbox ??
> The motorsound airbox has a sort of chromed intake hole and some holes in the side of the airbox cover. If you take a standard airbox cover off and look on the inside of it you will see an area about 6 inches by 8 inches which is pock marked - drill these holes out and you've got your own motorsound airbox. Or alternatively buy one for £80 and keep your standard one for quieter moments.
RSR exhaust sounds good, what is the ball park life of the standard exhaust, and cost of RSR against standard replacement.?
> Life? These things are built like the proverbial sh*t house, and are made of stainless. The mufflers could last indefinitely. If you order the RSR boxes, they come to you and you try them. If you like them, you send your original boxes plus 400 euro back to Gert @ www.carnewal.com (exchange), if you don't like them you send them back and put your standard boxes back on and it's cost you postage, that's it.
Finally the Air con., is it really worth bothering about if it is so tepremental, sounds like it may be worth a re-gas but not a grand to put right....comments please ?
> It's not really that bad. If you use the aircon at least once every couple of weeks, all year round, for 10 minutes, this gives the whole system a work out. That means the compressor and seals all get lubricated. If you DON'T, then the seals will dry out and crack. And the compressor can seize. If the seals crack then all your refrigerant will leak out. Then the compressor will cease to operate because it can tell there's no pressure for it to work with. A simple charge with dye will tell you if the compressor still works or not, and then you just have to see if the gas leaks out again (the dye will indicate the seals that need replacement).
How's that?
VS
V.S.
Your the man !!
Thats a few drinks I am due you.....and coming from a Scotsman that is some compliment ..lol
I spoke to the OPC Service Manager this morning and he has offered me advice and invited me in for a chat today to discuss a PPI and any questions I have, as he has been looking after this car for 3 years now. He actually put me onto the car owner in the first place, knowing it was coming up for sale. The current owner is not replacing the 993 at present.
Thanks again
CGF 993
Your the man !!
Thats a few drinks I am due you.....and coming from a Scotsman that is some compliment ..lol
I spoke to the OPC Service Manager this morning and he has offered me advice and invited me in for a chat today to discuss a PPI and any questions I have, as he has been looking after this car for 3 years now. He actually put me onto the car owner in the first place, knowing it was coming up for sale. The current owner is not replacing the 993 at present.
Thanks again
CGF 993
Re price - tricky - the range seems great on these cars. I paid a few k less than you are suggesting but the car has 20k more on it. It is also yellow which I love but is probably less popular and may hit the price a bit
On the possite side it has new clutch and brakes plus the 9m supercharger system
If you can get 1k off for clutch and contribition to service you are propbably getting it about right so long as the condition is good.I still see lots of these at nearly £40k
On the possite side it has new clutch and brakes plus the 9m supercharger system
If you can get 1k off for clutch and contribition to service you are propbably getting it about right so long as the condition is good.I still see lots of these at nearly £40k
If you get the car PPI by the OPC, buy a years warranty if the car doesn't already have one (cost will be ~£725). It really is worth having the warranty.
The PPI will show up any faults, such as the AC, and the rectification of such items can form part of the price negotiation too.
Hope you get fixed up.
Thanks
Martyn.
The PPI will show up any faults, such as the AC, and the rectification of such items can form part of the price negotiation too.
Hope you get fixed up.
Thanks
Martyn.
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