Porsche Taycan - first 'drivers' EV?
Discussion
First affordable drivers EV at least..
I see an army of Model S fans on PH but this new car seems to be getting little attention on here - worries me slightly as I find it quite appealing. I see in a recent survey people were keener on the Model S still, which surprises me in a way, but equally I'm not surprised at all - Tesla has the Apple effect it seems.
Anyhow, to me it seems quite simple. Technically the Model S is fastest on paper. But it's also just a slightly sporty family car with a ridiculously quick 0-60 time for bragging rights. The Porsche seems engineered ground up to actually be a true performance car. The sort of car that isn't worried if the Tesla is a couple of lengths ahead off the line, because on a real road/track, the difference would soon be made up dynamically.
I suppose the debate over real word speed/performance will rage until the two are put alongside each other on a track. I expect the results would be very close depending on the track - but that more driving pleasure would be found in the Porsche. In fact, this just might be one of the most widely appealing Porsche's ever if they get it right. It certainly looks as if they're going to price it aggressively, aggressively enough to bother their own traditional line up of cars even.
Anyone who has owned a scalextric set knows that power+motor easily equates to immense acceleration. Making an EV very, very fast isn't that difficult. It strikes me that for the first time, Porsche are about to combine that easy speed with a century of motor sport expertise and deliver a truly engaging EV experience in an affordable (relatively speaking) car.
Debate... I await the wrath of Model s owners
NB: Whilst I'm hopeful for the Porsche and will be in Frankfurt to see it on press day, I remain open minded and am also very interested in Model S. I'm leaning Porsche but only if it's revealed to be the car I hope it will be.
I see an army of Model S fans on PH but this new car seems to be getting little attention on here - worries me slightly as I find it quite appealing. I see in a recent survey people were keener on the Model S still, which surprises me in a way, but equally I'm not surprised at all - Tesla has the Apple effect it seems.
Anyhow, to me it seems quite simple. Technically the Model S is fastest on paper. But it's also just a slightly sporty family car with a ridiculously quick 0-60 time for bragging rights. The Porsche seems engineered ground up to actually be a true performance car. The sort of car that isn't worried if the Tesla is a couple of lengths ahead off the line, because on a real road/track, the difference would soon be made up dynamically.
I suppose the debate over real word speed/performance will rage until the two are put alongside each other on a track. I expect the results would be very close depending on the track - but that more driving pleasure would be found in the Porsche. In fact, this just might be one of the most widely appealing Porsche's ever if they get it right. It certainly looks as if they're going to price it aggressively, aggressively enough to bother their own traditional line up of cars even.
Anyone who has owned a scalextric set knows that power+motor easily equates to immense acceleration. Making an EV very, very fast isn't that difficult. It strikes me that for the first time, Porsche are about to combine that easy speed with a century of motor sport expertise and deliver a truly engaging EV experience in an affordable (relatively speaking) car.
Debate... I await the wrath of Model s owners
NB: Whilst I'm hopeful for the Porsche and will be in Frankfurt to see it on press day, I remain open minded and am also very interested in Model S. I'm leaning Porsche but only if it's revealed to be the car I hope it will be.
RDMcG said:
Released tomorrow on streaming video by Porsche. Will be interesting
It is certainly balls on the table time at Porsche for their first mainstream EV!I will be at Frankfurt auto show to have a look around the car on the stand, but I think the truth will be revealed in what they do/don't say in their launch presentation tomorrow.
To be frank, given the new BIK rates for the next few years, I'm ready to sign up unless they give me reason for doubt. I was so close with the Model S but I have driven one and it's just not the sort of car that lights me up. It's a middle of the road chassis with the power of a hypercar - in other words on most b-roads the average sporty driver is more likely to held back by nervousness about the the Model S power than be able to fully use it. I think it must be faster to have 'enough' power in a well sorted car than having too much power in a s slightly soft all rounder car.
RobDickinson said:
Should be a good sorted car.
Porsche will sell many of them, 20k production a year will get booked out fast
They had 30k deposits what 6 weeks ago, this can only have gone up since then and will get higher as the car is officially launched and info becomes available Porsche will sell many of them, 20k production a year will get booked out fast
how many of those deposits are Porsche fund managers looking to make 50-100% on hard to get Porsche that normal buyers can’t get remains to be seen.
I look forwards to Porsche becoming one of the first established brands to go all electric, not sure anyone would have believed you in 2009 if you told the most exciting product Porsche will launch in the next decade was going to be a pure EV .
Amazing to think without EV tech the Taycan may well have been an all diesel monstrosity like the current Audi S4!!
I remember when the diesel Cayenne first came out, I think everyone on this forum should welcome the Taycan when the alternative future for Porsche is more of these things
https://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/cayenne/6704/porsche...
.Amazing to think without EV tech the Taycan may well have been an all diesel monstrosity like the current Audi S4!!
I remember when the diesel Cayenne first came out, I think everyone on this forum should welcome the Taycan when the alternative future for Porsche is more of these things
https://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/cayenne/6704/porsche...
Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 4th September 06:34
gangzoom said:
Amazing to think without EV tech the Taycan may well have been an all diesel monstrosity like the current Audi S4!!
Without EV tech the Taycan wouldn’t exist at all - covered by panameraEdited to add - I was very surprised to see on here the negativity towards the Taycan compared to Tesla. In a straight choice I would have the Taycan though in reality I wouldn’t have a Tesla model s anyway and wouldn’t have the Porsche cos it’s only four seats and am too old and fat to want to lie down to drive! A colleague has a panamera and it’s a long way down to sit in it! So I have an iPace - but would rather have something a bit more upright (though that would be rubbish for range) Land Rover style...
Edited by oop north on Wednesday 4th September 07:55
oop north said:
Without EV tech the Taycan wouldn’t exist at all - covered by panamera
Edited to add - I was very surprised to see on here the negativity towards the Taycan compared to Tesla. In a straight choice I would have the Taycan though in reality I wouldn’t have a Tesla model s anyway and wouldn’t have the Porsche cos it’s only four seats and am too old and fat to want to lie down to drive! A colleague has a panamera and it’s a long way down to sit in it! So I have an iPace - but would rather have something a bit more upright (though that would be rubbish for range) Land Rover style...
I do think it's largely a case of the Model S being a breakthrough car which many people quite understandably worship. In reality though, important as the Tesla is, the mainstream manufacturers can probably hit the EV market harder now they have had time to asses the market, design their own systems and had the benefit of watching the success of Tesla sales. Edited to add - I was very surprised to see on here the negativity towards the Taycan compared to Tesla. In a straight choice I would have the Taycan though in reality I wouldn’t have a Tesla model s anyway and wouldn’t have the Porsche cos it’s only four seats and am too old and fat to want to lie down to drive! A colleague has a panamera and it’s a long way down to sit in it! So I have an iPace - but would rather have something a bit more upright (though that would be rubbish for range) Land Rover style...
Edited by oop north on Wednesday 4th September 07:55
As for a more upright EV, you're about to get your wish perhaps. A Land Rover car will soon be available in all electric guise - I would assume it's going to be the Evoque only for this year, but that's pretty close to real range rover in it's current form, albeit obviously smaller..
No word as yet on whether (or being realistic, when..) a full fat Range Rover or Disco EV will turn up. It is bound to happen though, all those trendy celebs rolling in a Range Rover need a 'green' EV version ASAP if they're not to jump ship. Quite how JLR will tackle the issues of range/weight and sustained torque needed for a credible full size EV off-roader remains to be seen. My guess as yours is that the range will suffer, which probably won't be a factor for 90% of current Range Rover drivers so needn't delay such a car existing fairly soon.
Porsche TV live stream here: https://crmmail.porsche.com/europe/A3AC99CE1BFAB6D...
YouTube stream here: https://crmmail.porsche.com/europe/A3AC99CE1BFAB6D...
2pm BST today
God I hope it's not a minger when we see it without the camouflage bits...
YouTube stream here: https://crmmail.porsche.com/europe/A3AC99CE1BFAB6D...
2pm BST today
God I hope it's not a minger when we see it without the camouflage bits...
Affordable? £100k+ on release and bog standard @ £65k+?
TheDeuce said:
First affordable drivers EV at least..
I see an army of Model S fans on PH but this new car seems to be getting little attention on here - worries me slightly as I find it quite appealing. I see in a recent survey people were keener on the Model S still, which surprises me in a way, but equally I'm not surprised at all - Tesla has the Apple effect it seems.
Anyhow, to me it seems quite simple. Technically the Model S is fastest on paper. But it's also just a slightly sporty family car with a ridiculously quick 0-60 time for bragging rights. The Porsche seems engineered ground up to actually be a true performance car. The sort of car that isn't worried if the Tesla is a couple of lengths ahead off the line, because on a real road/track, the difference would soon be made up dynamically.
I suppose the debate over real word speed/performance will rage until the two are put alongside each other on a track. I expect the results would be very close depending on the track - but that more driving pleasure would be found in the Porsche. In fact, this just might be one of the most widely appealing Porsche's ever if they get it right. It certainly looks as if they're going to price it aggressively, aggressively enough to bother their own traditional line up of cars even.
Anyone who has owned a scalextric set knows that power+motor easily equates to immense acceleration. Making an EV very, very fast isn't that difficult. It strikes me that for the first time, Porsche are about to combine that easy speed with a century of motor sport expertise and deliver a truly engaging EV experience in an affordable (relatively speaking) car.
Debate... I await the wrath of Model s owners
NB: Whilst I'm hopeful for the Porsche and will be in Frankfurt to see it on press day, I remain open minded and am also very interested in Model S. I'm leaning Porsche but only if it's revealed to be the car I hope it will be.
I see an army of Model S fans on PH but this new car seems to be getting little attention on here - worries me slightly as I find it quite appealing. I see in a recent survey people were keener on the Model S still, which surprises me in a way, but equally I'm not surprised at all - Tesla has the Apple effect it seems.
Anyhow, to me it seems quite simple. Technically the Model S is fastest on paper. But it's also just a slightly sporty family car with a ridiculously quick 0-60 time for bragging rights. The Porsche seems engineered ground up to actually be a true performance car. The sort of car that isn't worried if the Tesla is a couple of lengths ahead off the line, because on a real road/track, the difference would soon be made up dynamically.
I suppose the debate over real word speed/performance will rage until the two are put alongside each other on a track. I expect the results would be very close depending on the track - but that more driving pleasure would be found in the Porsche. In fact, this just might be one of the most widely appealing Porsche's ever if they get it right. It certainly looks as if they're going to price it aggressively, aggressively enough to bother their own traditional line up of cars even.
Anyone who has owned a scalextric set knows that power+motor easily equates to immense acceleration. Making an EV very, very fast isn't that difficult. It strikes me that for the first time, Porsche are about to combine that easy speed with a century of motor sport expertise and deliver a truly engaging EV experience in an affordable (relatively speaking) car.
Debate... I await the wrath of Model s owners
NB: Whilst I'm hopeful for the Porsche and will be in Frankfurt to see it on press day, I remain open minded and am also very interested in Model S. I'm leaning Porsche but only if it's revealed to be the car I hope it will be.
Jasper3.0 said:
Affordable? £100k+ on release and bog standard @ £65k+?
Well, you're not getting a quicker Porsche for the same money. Let alone one with the bang up to date tech and interior, and 4 doors... The bog standard one is still going to be quicker than the i-pace I would think (unless Porsche engineers have missed the point somewhat..), so probably a shade under 4 seconds to 60. The hotter version they are saying 'under 3.5 seconds', although the press that have driven it are united in suggesting that it's probably well under 3.5 seconds - which it should be.I said 'relatively speaking' it is affordable, and I think that's quite accurate. They clearly want this to sell fast in big numbers and as such I don't think there is any other way of buying a Porsche with the same power for the price-tag. Porsche themselves have made certain of that, they want this to be the big seller.
TheDeuce said:
Jasper3.0 said:
Affordable? £100k+ on release and bog standard @ £65k+?
Well, you're not getting a quicker Porsche for the same money. Let alone one with the bang up to date tech and interior, and 4 doors... The bog standard one is still going to be quicker than the i-pace I would think (unless Porsche engineers have missed the point somewhat..), so probably a shade under 4 seconds to 60. The hotter version they are saying 'under 3.5 seconds', although the press that have driven it are united in suggesting that it's probably well under 3.5 seconds - which it should be.I said 'relatively speaking' it is affordable, and I think that's quite accurate. They clearly want this to sell fast in big numbers and as such I don't think there is any other way of buying a Porsche with the same power for the price-tag. Porsche themselves have made certain of that, they want this to be the big seller.
theres no 1 hour warm up needed like one of the P100Ds in a carwow vid to enable ludicrous mode
Dave Hedgehog said:
its not just the performance figures its the fact its designed to be repeatable from start regardless of state of charge and to be able to handle the thermals of constant performance use
theres no 1 hour warm up needed like one of the P100Ds in a carwow vid to enable ludicrous mode
In a nutshell, it's a car designed by a company that's been doing it for decades. Does kinda make the Tesla look like a headline grabbing one trick pony, the performance figures of which are a little disingenuous as it does need to be warmed up and then managed... That's not strictly fair as there is so much good to say about the Tesla cars, but as a performance tool this Porsche is looking like the best engineered offering in the mainstream EV world, by quite some margin. It will do what it says on the tin, endlessly. That's what a 'drivers' car needs to do.theres no 1 hour warm up needed like one of the P100Ds in a carwow vid to enable ludicrous mode
Have been following the recent Taycan stuff - genuinely impressive performance credentials particularly for things like the Nardo test where it was constantly either cruising at 120+mph or 350kw rapid charging.
That charging is where the Tesla comparisons are interesting - Telsa make it easy to get all over Western Europe (or the USA if you're there) with their own network of very fast (120kw+) chargers, most of which have at least 8 bays and the busy ones even more. No apps, no RFID cards, just plug in and get a bill on your account for your usage.
Porsche's only equivalent is they're one of a few manufacturers funding Ionity, who are putting in the 350kw chargers that the Taycan can take advantage of. They've only just opened their third site in the UK, each have four bays. Bit better across Europe but nowhere near Tesla coverage. Beyond that you'll mostly be charging at 50kw or so on the same chargers that everyone else is trying to use.
Quick look on abetterrouteplanner - Calais to Naples less than half the chargers would be Ionity - need about 4 hours charging time en route in a Taycan Turbo. Model 3 Performance 2 hours 15 minutes, and it takes about 20 mins off the driving time because it can go a quicker route.
It'll get better I'm sure, but if you want to do a zero-emission cruise across continents in a quick car then Tesla has the upper hand right now.
That charging is where the Tesla comparisons are interesting - Telsa make it easy to get all over Western Europe (or the USA if you're there) with their own network of very fast (120kw+) chargers, most of which have at least 8 bays and the busy ones even more. No apps, no RFID cards, just plug in and get a bill on your account for your usage.
Porsche's only equivalent is they're one of a few manufacturers funding Ionity, who are putting in the 350kw chargers that the Taycan can take advantage of. They've only just opened their third site in the UK, each have four bays. Bit better across Europe but nowhere near Tesla coverage. Beyond that you'll mostly be charging at 50kw or so on the same chargers that everyone else is trying to use.
Quick look on abetterrouteplanner - Calais to Naples less than half the chargers would be Ionity - need about 4 hours charging time en route in a Taycan Turbo. Model 3 Performance 2 hours 15 minutes, and it takes about 20 mins off the driving time because it can go a quicker route.
It'll get better I'm sure, but if you want to do a zero-emission cruise across continents in a quick car then Tesla has the upper hand right now.
Edited by sjg on Wednesday 4th September 14:09
Edited by sjg on Wednesday 4th September 14:10
Dave Hedgehog said:
TheDeuce said:
Jasper3.0 said:
Affordable? £100k+ on release and bog standard @ £65k+?
Well, you're not getting a quicker Porsche for the same money. Let alone one with the bang up to date tech and interior, and 4 doors... The bog standard one is still going to be quicker than the i-pace I would think (unless Porsche engineers have missed the point somewhat..), so probably a shade under 4 seconds to 60. The hotter version they are saying 'under 3.5 seconds', although the press that have driven it are united in suggesting that it's probably well under 3.5 seconds - which it should be.I said 'relatively speaking' it is affordable, and I think that's quite accurate. They clearly want this to sell fast in big numbers and as such I don't think there is any other way of buying a Porsche with the same power for the price-tag. Porsche themselves have made certain of that, they want this to be the big seller.
theres no 1 hour warm up needed like one of the P100Ds in a carwow vid to enable ludicrous mode
The Model 3 Performance will match the Taycan's advertised time of 'under 3.5 seconds' without any ludicrous mode?
I like the Taycan a lot but all of this focus on straight line performance seems a little 1 dimensional for a sportscar manufacturer. Let's see how well it drives/handles as that should be where it leaves Tesla's well behind?
sjg said:
Have been following the recent Taycan stuff - genuinely impressive performance credentials particularly for things like the Nardo test where it was constantly either cruising at 120+mph or 350kw rapid charging.
That charging is where the Tesla comparisons are interesting - Telsa make it easy to get all over Western Europe (or the USA if you're there) with their own network of very fast (120kw+) chargers, most of which have at least 8 bays and the busy ones even more. No apps, no RFID cards, just plug in and get a bill on your account for your usage.
Porsche's only equivalent is they're one of a few manufacturers funding Ionity, who are putting in the 350kw chargers that the Taycan can take advantage of. They've only just opened their third site in the UK, each have four bays. Bit better across Europe but nowhere near Tesla coverage. Beyond that you'll mostly be charging at 50kw or so on the same chargers that everyone else is trying to use.
Quick look on abetterrouteplanner - Calais to Naples less than half the chargers would be Ionity - need about 4 hours charging time en route in a Taycan Turbo. Model 3 Performance 2 hours 15 minutes, and it takes about 20 mins off the driving time because it can go a quicker route.
It'll get better I'm sure, but if you want to do a zero-emission cruise across continents in a quick car then Tesla has the upper hand right now.
It's true - Tesla have shrewdly bought themselves a pretty big advantage with their rapid roll out of chargers. I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before universal standards are adopted, but for now the Tesla is the easiest to keep juiced for sure.That charging is where the Tesla comparisons are interesting - Telsa make it easy to get all over Western Europe (or the USA if you're there) with their own network of very fast (120kw+) chargers, most of which have at least 8 bays and the busy ones even more. No apps, no RFID cards, just plug in and get a bill on your account for your usage.
Porsche's only equivalent is they're one of a few manufacturers funding Ionity, who are putting in the 350kw chargers that the Taycan can take advantage of. They've only just opened their third site in the UK, each have four bays. Bit better across Europe but nowhere near Tesla coverage. Beyond that you'll mostly be charging at 50kw or so on the same chargers that everyone else is trying to use.
Quick look on abetterrouteplanner - Calais to Naples less than half the chargers would be Ionity - need about 4 hours charging time en route in a Taycan Turbo. Model 3 Performance 2 hours 15 minutes, and it takes about 20 mins off the driving time because it can go a quicker route.
It'll get better I'm sure, but if you want to do a zero-emission cruise across continents in a quick car then Tesla has the upper hand right now.
Edited by sjg on Wednesday 4th September 14:09
Edited by sjg on Wednesday 4th September 14:10
On the other hand... for many people it's simply not an issue. I so rarely drive over 200 miles round trips in a single day that I should never need to charge it anywhere other than at home, overnight.
SWoll said:
I was of the opinion the P100D doesn't need a warm up to match the Taycan's performance though, just for ludicrous modes 2.4 0-60?
The Model 3 Performance will match the Taycan's advertised time of 'under 3.5 seconds' without any ludicrous mode?
I like the Taycan a lot but all of this focus on straight line performance seems a little 1 dimensional for a sportscar manufacturer. Let's see how well it drives/handles as that should be where it leaves Tesla's well behind?
It already has left the Tesla behind - they've focussed on the entire performance package which is why they managed this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8m31EgQkswg&fe... Which is frankly staggering and well worth a watch if you have 7 minutes and 42 seconds to spare The Model 3 Performance will match the Taycan's advertised time of 'under 3.5 seconds' without any ludicrous mode?
I like the Taycan a lot but all of this focus on straight line performance seems a little 1 dimensional for a sportscar manufacturer. Let's see how well it drives/handles as that should be where it leaves Tesla's well behind?
No Tesla is going to get close to that anytime soon! Within 8 miles of hard driving the Tesla has to limit it's power to avoid overheating, and beyond 10 miles hard driving the limit is extreme - hence, I think around 10 minutes is about as good as the Tesla's have managed at the Nurburgring. And to be honest, even before the performance limiter kicks in, a Model S isn't getting around the Nurburgring anything like as fast as the Taycan. The Model S just isn't built for performance from the ground up.
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