Undertaking on the motorway.
Discussion
On Sunday I travelled from J27 on the M5 all the way back to J2.
I wasn't hanging about & occasionaly I would get stuck behind a car in lane three doing say 70 mph, I would leave a safe stopping distance, going from memory I think the highway code suggests a min. of 315 feet.
Have you ever tried leaving this distance or even half of it & see what other motorists behaviour is ?
I must have got undertook at least ten times, only for the vehicle to then take my "safe distance" thus making me drop back.
Is it me or does anyone else get annoyed by this ?
I wasn't hanging about & occasionaly I would get stuck behind a car in lane three doing say 70 mph, I would leave a safe stopping distance, going from memory I think the highway code suggests a min. of 315 feet.
Have you ever tried leaving this distance or even half of it & see what other motorists behaviour is ?
I must have got undertook at least ten times, only for the vehicle to then take my "safe distance" thus making me drop back.
Is it me or does anyone else get annoyed by this ?
RUSSELLM said:
On Sunday I travelled from J27 on the M5 all the way back to J2.
I wasn't hanging about & occasionaly I would get stuck behind a car in lane three doing say 70 mph, I would leave a safe stopping distance, going from memory I think the highway code suggests a min. of 315 feet.
Have you ever tried leaving this distance or even half of it & see what other motorists behaviour is ?
I must have got undertook at least ten times, only for the vehicle to then take my "safe distance" thus making me drop back.
Is it me or does anyone else get annoyed by this ?
Yes, it happens to me sometimes and I don't much care for it, but I just drop back and open the gap up again. In general though I find people in lane 3 will move over for me quite readily if there is room in lane 2, so I usually go past relatively unhindered. It's not often I get stuck for long behind a lane hogger, I seem to be quite lucky like that.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
RUSSELLM said:This happens to me all the time, as does tailgating. I have been known to undertake in such circumstances, when the middle and inside lanes are largely empty. I once counted myself undertake twenty cars simply by driving at 80 mph in the empty inside lane of the M1 on the concrete bit leading into town.
On Sunday I travelled from J27 on the M5 all the way back to J2.
I wasn't hanging about & occasionaly I would get stuck behind a car in lane three doing say 70 mph, I would leave a safe stopping distance, going from memory I think the highway code suggests a min. of 315 feet.
Have you ever tried leaving this distance or even half of it & see what other motorists behaviour is ?
I must have got undertook at least ten times, only for the vehicle to then take my "safe distance" thus making me drop back.
Is it me or does anyone else get annoyed by this ?
This sort of thing often happens on the M26 (2 lanes) and you get a queue of traffic at around 70, overtaking a couple of lorries. The queue can be 1/2 mile long and there are no end of jerk offs driving along the inside lane at 80 to push into the outside lane when they get to the lorries.
If you leave any sort of gap that is an open invitation for these guys to push back in.
It is, at best, discorteous, and at worst, downright dangerous when someone, who has queued in the outside lane for 10 minutes, is expected to let the undertaker in........and won't.
I'd stone all undertakers in this sort of situation.
If you leave any sort of gap that is an open invitation for these guys to push back in.
It is, at best, discorteous, and at worst, downright dangerous when someone, who has queued in the outside lane for 10 minutes, is expected to let the undertaker in........and won't.
I'd stone all undertakers in this sort of situation.
They may not be deliberately undertaking. I prefer not to cruise along in the outside lane and regularly I find the right hand lane slows for no apparent reason. That is because some miles ahead, slow drivers pull into the outside lane to pass a truck, the right hand lane speedsters have to slow down and, as I maintain my speed in the left hand lane, I inadvertently pass them. Since the traffic is moving in queues when this happens I'm not sure I'm committing any offence.
So what should I do? Slow down and join the back of the queue? Or maintain my pace and pull out to overtake (courteously) only when I get to the slower moving vehicle in my lane? Surely when put like that it is clear that the latter is far preferable, for safety and for maintaining flow.
So what should I do? Slow down and join the back of the queue? Or maintain my pace and pull out to overtake (courteously) only when I get to the slower moving vehicle in my lane? Surely when put like that it is clear that the latter is far preferable, for safety and for maintaining flow.
Some of the issues here are a bit similar to the various merging threads eg the black Lexus one.
In my view there are mainly two types of undertakers.
The deliberately aggressive ones who pull hard left, boot it up the inside and shoulder their way back out again regardless of the space available, or should that be lack of space. A true undertaker. For these people a pull and 3 pts would be my suggestion.
Then you have the others who drift past, taking the line of least resistance and keeping the differential speed very low. When it comes to the time to merge right, the good ones do not shoulder their way out but wait for a half decent space. These I think are 100% OK, but that is just my view.
Personally as mentioned on that other thread, I never get into conflict with either type. Just not worth it.
Look at it another way, if you let 60 cars "push" in front of you, after the delay when you are all spaced out at your "only a fool breaks the 2 second rule" gaps (as if) you are only 60 x 2 secs behind where you would have been. 2 minutes?
And don't come over all innocent if you do get into conflict, it takes two to tango.
FiF
In my view there are mainly two types of undertakers.
The deliberately aggressive ones who pull hard left, boot it up the inside and shoulder their way back out again regardless of the space available, or should that be lack of space. A true undertaker. For these people a pull and 3 pts would be my suggestion.
Then you have the others who drift past, taking the line of least resistance and keeping the differential speed very low. When it comes to the time to merge right, the good ones do not shoulder their way out but wait for a half decent space. These I think are 100% OK, but that is just my view.
Personally as mentioned on that other thread, I never get into conflict with either type. Just not worth it.
Look at it another way, if you let 60 cars "push" in front of you, after the delay when you are all spaced out at your "only a fool breaks the 2 second rule" gaps (as if) you are only 60 x 2 secs behind where you would have been. 2 minutes?
And don't come over all innocent if you do get into conflict, it takes two to tango.
FiF
Flat in Fifth said:
Some of the issues here are a bit similar to the various merging threads eg the black Lexus one.
In my view there are mainly two types of undertakers.
The deliberately aggressive ones who pull hard left, boot it up the inside and shoulder their way back out again regardless of the space available, or should that be lack of space. A true undertaker. For these people a pull and 3 pts would be my suggestion.
Then you have the others who drift past, taking the line of least resistance and keeping the differential speed very low. When it comes to the time to merge right, the good ones do not shoulder their way out but wait for a half decent space. These I think are 100% OK, but that is just my view.
Personally as mentioned on that other thread, I never get into conflict with either type. Just not worth it.
Look at it another way, if you let 60 cars "push" in front of you, after the delay when you are all spaced out at your "only a fool breaks the 2 second rule" gaps (as if) you are only 60 x 2 secs behind where you would have been. 2 minutes?
And don't come over all innocent if you do get into conflict, it takes two to tango.
FiF
I prefer to be a bit sparing with the 'undertaking' but I sometimes do it, in which case it will be as per your type 2 version.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
If there is nobody in front of you then I see no problem with continuing in that lane even if it is the left lane. If they then want to move to lane 2 or 3 they then indicate and move out when safe to do so. I try to move left as soon as I can and have no problem passing cars on the left when there is plenty of lane ahead in front of me.
bingo.
If the left lanes empty for miles then people should be driving in it and overtaking when neccesary/getting back in or alternatively carrying on if their speed is such that they end up overtaking other cars.
Another clue would be for them to pull in if they see the car behind is gaining.
If the left lanes empty for miles then people should be driving in it and overtaking when neccesary/getting back in or alternatively carrying on if their speed is such that they end up overtaking other cars.
Another clue would be for them to pull in if they see the car behind is gaining.
TripleS said:
In general though I find people in lane 3 will move over for me quite readily if there is room in lane 2, so I usually go past relatively unhindered. It's not often I get stuck for long behind a lane hogger, I seem to be quite lucky like that.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
.. that's because YOU'RE the 3rd lane hogger we're all stuck behind.
GET OUT OF LANE THREE 
Having spent 6 months commuting on the M4 I found I can knock 10 mins off my commute by undertaking.
e.g. you see up ahead the motorway is queueing in lane 3. So slow down a bit and pull into a gap in lane 2. You will then cruse past lane 3 and lane 1 on most occasions. The best part is the people who as the motorway slows deliberately pull into lane 3! Exactly what are they thinking? Theres a queue of traffic in that lane. I know i'll join the end of it?..
e.g. you see up ahead the motorway is queueing in lane 3. So slow down a bit and pull into a gap in lane 2. You will then cruse past lane 3 and lane 1 on most occasions. The best part is the people who as the motorway slows deliberately pull into lane 3! Exactly what are they thinking? Theres a queue of traffic in that lane. I know i'll join the end of it?..
Imagine your waiting to use a cash point machine, personally I don't like to be leaning on the person who's using it, so I tend to leave a gap.
If somebody at the end of the queue, thinks "oo, there's a big gap there I'll get in", I would feel obliged to tell them to get back.
Funny, that in a car, the only way of communicating this would be via hand signals or by using the car (headlights, horn etc..)
I'm very suprised that "Road Rage" is as rare as it actually is, as in any walk of life, most people wouldn't stand for it.
Best just to keep cool, but I do find it annoying.
old fogey said:It's more likely to be something to do with the flashing lights and loud noises.
In general though I find people in lane 3 will move over for me quite readily if there is room in lane 2, so I usually go past relatively unhindered. It's not often I get stuck for long behind a lane hogger, I seem to be quite lucky like that.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
I have always been of the mentality that if someone can undertake me, without causing me to brake to avoid collision and using the existing road network then I am clearly in the wrong lane.
Thats why I get confused if I undertake a right lane hogger or whatever that they get so annoyed! If it hasnt affected them in anyway then whats the problem?
Only reasonable answer si that they are being deliberatly obstructive to annoy thus provoke a reaction to which they can get angry about.
Thats why I get confused if I undertake a right lane hogger or whatever that they get so annoyed! If it hasnt affected them in anyway then whats the problem?
Only reasonable answer si that they are being deliberatly obstructive to annoy thus provoke a reaction to which they can get angry about.
Agree with most of the preceeding points in favour of passing on the inside. However I disagree that you should reduce the speed differential.
If you are passing on the inside it's contrary to the highway code (probably), so the person being passed is not expecting you to be there.
As you approach you enter a fairly large blind spot which you remain in until you become visible through his passenger window as you come along side.
If you have minimised the speed differential you are increasing the time for which you are invisible immediately prior to appearing somewhere unexpected and therefore, I think, increasing the chances of the person you're passing inadvertently rejoining the lane you're in while you're still in it.
If, on the other hand, you go through at the speed you were going you minimise this time when you are exposed to danger.
>> Edited by gasman on Thursday 30th June 11:43
>> Edited by gasman on Thursday 30th June 11:43
If you are passing on the inside it's contrary to the highway code (probably), so the person being passed is not expecting you to be there.
As you approach you enter a fairly large blind spot which you remain in until you become visible through his passenger window as you come along side.
If you have minimised the speed differential you are increasing the time for which you are invisible immediately prior to appearing somewhere unexpected and therefore, I think, increasing the chances of the person you're passing inadvertently rejoining the lane you're in while you're still in it.
If, on the other hand, you go through at the speed you were going you minimise this time when you are exposed to danger.
>> Edited by gasman on Thursday 30th June 11:43
>> Edited by gasman on Thursday 30th June 11:43
gasman said:
If, on the other hand, you go through at the speed you were going you minimise this time when you are exposed to danger.
whilst also minimising your time to deal with the move left by the undertaken.
Your logic also could be applied to running lights at red. Less TED ??!!??
Remember SSS
Surprise
Space
Speed
deal with all three correctly and you'll not go far wrong.
RUSSELLM said:
On Sunday I travelled from J27 on the M5 all the way back to J2.
I wasn't hanging about & occasionaly I would get stuck behind a car in lane three doing say 70 mph, I would leave a safe stopping distance, going from memory I think the highway code suggests a min. of 315 feet.
Have you ever tried leaving this distance or even half of it & see what other motorists behaviour is ?
I must have got undertook at least ten times, only for the vehicle to then take my "safe distance" thus making me drop back.
Is it me or does anyone else get annoyed by this ?
I think you need to be a little realistic about stopping distances on motorways.
The highway code stopping distances are a little outdated for cars with modern brakes, and in any case leaving that distance is assuming the possibility that the car in front could possibly stop dead instantaneously with no warning.
That doesnt happen often.
Furthermore of you are leaving a gap of anything more than 100 feet on a busy motorway i would argue that there is no need for you to be in the outside lane.
As it stands motorways are often "full" with cars leaving 30 feet stopping distance thus if each car left the required 315 feet there would only be room for 10% of the traffic on that motorway. It doesnt work.
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