Changing brake fluid newbie question(s)
Discussion
I’ve just bought a RenaultSport Twingo 133. It’s a 2009, with 75k in the clock, and I don’t have a record of when the brake fluid was last done - I have quite a bit of history, so decent chance it just hasn’t been done.
I’m keen to start some light spannering, so I figured that doing the brake fluid was an easy first job, what do you think? My mechanical experience so far extends as far as changing the wheel on a car, or most jobs on a push bike.
I’ve watched a few videos and it looks pretty straightforward, I think I just need:
2L of fluid. My car is DOT 4 with DOT 5.1 compatibility, so I figured I’d go for the latter - does anyone have recommendations? There is a non zero percent chance that I might do a track day, so would want something uprated but not crazy.
A spanner to open the bleed nipple
Some clear tubing sticking out of a bottle via a hole in the lid, to drain in to (make sure to keep fluid in the bottom)
Some way of sucking fluid from the reservoir
A way of getting the car up
Latex gloves, some rags, and a funnel probably a good idea to avoid a mess as brake fluid is nasty
A friend will make things easier
My main question is what is the minimum combination of axle stands/ jacks to do this all safely? Currently I only have the jack in the boot which I don’t think is recommended to use on its own? I live in a flat so space is at a premium so I don’t want to buy loads of stuff if I can safely avoid it.
I was thinking of getting 2 basic axle stands, probably these: https://www.halfords.com/tools/garage-workshop/axl...
And I would just jack each wheel in turn using the scissor jack, and put it o one axle stand to drain the respective brake (in the order Renault recommend).
What do you think?
I’m keen to start some light spannering, so I figured that doing the brake fluid was an easy first job, what do you think? My mechanical experience so far extends as far as changing the wheel on a car, or most jobs on a push bike.
I’ve watched a few videos and it looks pretty straightforward, I think I just need:
2L of fluid. My car is DOT 4 with DOT 5.1 compatibility, so I figured I’d go for the latter - does anyone have recommendations? There is a non zero percent chance that I might do a track day, so would want something uprated but not crazy.
A spanner to open the bleed nipple
Some clear tubing sticking out of a bottle via a hole in the lid, to drain in to (make sure to keep fluid in the bottom)
Some way of sucking fluid from the reservoir
A way of getting the car up
Latex gloves, some rags, and a funnel probably a good idea to avoid a mess as brake fluid is nasty
A friend will make things easier
My main question is what is the minimum combination of axle stands/ jacks to do this all safely? Currently I only have the jack in the boot which I don’t think is recommended to use on its own? I live in a flat so space is at a premium so I don’t want to buy loads of stuff if I can safely avoid it.
I was thinking of getting 2 basic axle stands, probably these: https://www.halfords.com/tools/garage-workshop/axl...
And I would just jack each wheel in turn using the scissor jack, and put it o one axle stand to drain the respective brake (in the order Renault recommend).
What do you think?
Edited by Disco You on Tuesday 5th January 17:16
I would normally flush the brake fluid when replacing pads and not treat it as a separate service item. Have the pads been replaced? It seems unlikely that it's on the original pads at that mileage but you never know.
You don't particularly need to suck fluid out of the reservoir.
If you do decide to bleed them, this job will be much easier if you keep the bleed nipple under very slight pressure by positioning your container above the caliper so the fluid is pushed uphill to it. This makes it much less likely that you will pull air in at the nipple. My preferred approach is to use a long hose to bring the fluid up to a jar that I can see from the driver's seat so that this becomes a one person operation. You can get systems that fill the reservoir with pressurised brake fluid so that you can do the whole job just by opening the bleed nipple, but after having the lid blow off one of those I stay away from them.
You should be aware that if the brake master cylinder is badly worn then using the pedal to bleed the brakes can destroy the seal. You could take that as a sign that the m/c needed replacing anyway, just be aware that what starts off as a quick brake bleed might turn into a more substantial job.
You don't particularly need to suck fluid out of the reservoir.
If you do decide to bleed them, this job will be much easier if you keep the bleed nipple under very slight pressure by positioning your container above the caliper so the fluid is pushed uphill to it. This makes it much less likely that you will pull air in at the nipple. My preferred approach is to use a long hose to bring the fluid up to a jar that I can see from the driver's seat so that this becomes a one person operation. You can get systems that fill the reservoir with pressurised brake fluid so that you can do the whole job just by opening the bleed nipple, but after having the lid blow off one of those I stay away from them.
You should be aware that if the brake master cylinder is badly worn then using the pedal to bleed the brakes can destroy the seal. You could take that as a sign that the m/c needed replacing anyway, just be aware that what starts off as a quick brake bleed might turn into a more substantial job.
GreenV8S said:
I would normally flush the brake fluid when replacing pads and not treat it as a separate service item. Have the pads been replaced? It seems unlikely that it's on the original pads at that mileage but you never know.
You don't particularly need to suck fluid out of the reservoir.
If you do decide to bleed them, this job will be much easier if you keep the bleed nipple under very slight pressure by positioning your container above the caliper so the fluid is pushed uphill to it. This makes it much less likely that you will pull air in at the nipple. My preferred approach is to use a long hose to bring the fluid up to a jar that I can see from the driver's seat so that this becomes a one person operation. You can get systems that fill the reservoir with pressurised brake fluid so that you can do the whole job just by opening the bleed nipple, but after having the lid blow off one of those I stay away from them.
You should be aware that if the brake master cylinder is badly worn then using the pedal to bleed the brakes can destroy the seal. You could take that as a sign that the m/c needed replacing anyway, just be aware that what starts off as a quick brake bleed might turn into a more substantial job.
That’s helpful, cheers.You don't particularly need to suck fluid out of the reservoir.
If you do decide to bleed them, this job will be much easier if you keep the bleed nipple under very slight pressure by positioning your container above the caliper so the fluid is pushed uphill to it. This makes it much less likely that you will pull air in at the nipple. My preferred approach is to use a long hose to bring the fluid up to a jar that I can see from the driver's seat so that this becomes a one person operation. You can get systems that fill the reservoir with pressurised brake fluid so that you can do the whole job just by opening the bleed nipple, but after having the lid blow off one of those I stay away from them.
You should be aware that if the brake master cylinder is badly worn then using the pedal to bleed the brakes can destroy the seal. You could take that as a sign that the m/c needed replacing anyway, just be aware that what starts off as a quick brake bleed might turn into a more substantial job.
I have pretty good records for the past 3 years + 30k miles, and these include rear discs and pads and calliper guides at 60k miles in 2019. No records for any brake fluid or front pads. From a quick look earlier the front pads look to have plenty of meat on them.
If the master cylinder goes I’ll be a bit f
ked because I’ll be working on the car in an underground space two stories down, so fingers crossed there.Any thoughts on the jacking + stands?
Easy bleed looks good, when I’d searched before all of the kits had needed a vacuum line, but using the spare for pressure is quite clever. I take it the gunson one for £20 at lots of places including Halfords is the one to get?
https://www.halfords.com/tools/hand-tools/automoti...
Given that is only £20 it seems a bit of a no brainier as compared to making a catch bottle from some tube, especially given that this will be kinder to my master cylinder.
https://www.halfords.com/tools/hand-tools/automoti...
Given that is only £20 it seems a bit of a no brainier as compared to making a catch bottle from some tube, especially given that this will be kinder to my master cylinder.
Replacement bleed nipples, plusgas, easi bleed kit, talk of a master cylinder seals.
One man kit and elevated hose.
This guy admits he has only changed a wheel before!
Jeezus folks?
Love the bleed nipple purchase tip though. So just in case one shears off you can maybe just pop a new one in???
Get someone experienced to go through it with you or just pay £50-£70 at a garage.
One man kit and elevated hose.
This guy admits he has only changed a wheel before!
Jeezus folks?
Love the bleed nipple purchase tip though. So just in case one shears off you can maybe just pop a new one in???
Get someone experienced to go through it with you or just pay £50-£70 at a garage.
I have a Twingo RS, which I bought for track days. I also did the brake fluid.
Ideally, you'll need, 4 axle stands, you need to take all 4 wheels off the car. However if you take the fronts off, you can just about access the bleed nipples on the rear with the wheels in situ. You'll need the correct brake bleed spanner sizes, it may be possible that the bleed nipples are different sizes depending on the make of calliper. BUT, it is likely that the bleed nipples will snap ( as my front ones did ) and therefore you may need to take the whole calliper off and send it to Big Red for a refurb. This will obviously immobilise your car. It can also be difficult to detach the brake line to the caliper.
Lots of penetrating fluid will be required to loosen up the nipples. Be really careful about whether you need to drive the car again, if it goes wrong - which is likely. Also the clutch is hydraulic and works off the brake fluid, so realistically you need to be able to bleed that as well. I didn't and it makes a nice wooshing sound as I change gear. I upgraded to Comma 5.1 brake fluid, more than acceptable, you'll also need to upgrade your front pads to Carbon Lorraine RC5 if you intend to do a lot of Trackdays. I've tried the standard pads and they just ruin the discs. Rears will be fine as standard, however be advised that the rear discs have the wheel bearing in them so are not necessary easy to change as you have to use a wheel bearing tool to get them off.
I have loads of info on running these as track slags, I've done 2500+ miles in 30 hours of trackdays in a standard one over the last year ( I have a thread in the track days section on it)
enjoy!
Ideally, you'll need, 4 axle stands, you need to take all 4 wheels off the car. However if you take the fronts off, you can just about access the bleed nipples on the rear with the wheels in situ. You'll need the correct brake bleed spanner sizes, it may be possible that the bleed nipples are different sizes depending on the make of calliper. BUT, it is likely that the bleed nipples will snap ( as my front ones did ) and therefore you may need to take the whole calliper off and send it to Big Red for a refurb. This will obviously immobilise your car. It can also be difficult to detach the brake line to the caliper.
Lots of penetrating fluid will be required to loosen up the nipples. Be really careful about whether you need to drive the car again, if it goes wrong - which is likely. Also the clutch is hydraulic and works off the brake fluid, so realistically you need to be able to bleed that as well. I didn't and it makes a nice wooshing sound as I change gear. I upgraded to Comma 5.1 brake fluid, more than acceptable, you'll also need to upgrade your front pads to Carbon Lorraine RC5 if you intend to do a lot of Trackdays. I've tried the standard pads and they just ruin the discs. Rears will be fine as standard, however be advised that the rear discs have the wheel bearing in them so are not necessary easy to change as you have to use a wheel bearing tool to get them off.
I have loads of info on running these as track slags, I've done 2500+ miles in 30 hours of trackdays in a standard one over the last year ( I have a thread in the track days section on it)
enjoy!
We all have to start somewhere - I’d be prepared to give it a go but be prepared to admit defeat if nipples are seized etc.. I have tried a Gunson easy-bleed and a Sealey pressure bleeder and didn’t find them that useful or friendly, so suggest just doing it the “traditional” way with a friend pumping the pedal in line with you opening and closing the nipple, with a plastic hose into a jam jar. Suck some fluid out of the master cylinder, but leave the outlets at the base covered, refill with new fluid and make sure to keep checking and topping up. Given you do one brake caliper at a time, normally starting furthest from the MC, you only really need to remove one wheel at a time, so I would just place one axle stand beneath a suitable point on the body’s frame such as a suspension mounting point. Place the removed wheel under the sill as a further safeguard. Bleed the first caliper until there’s no bubbles and you see a change in fluid colour / cleanliness, and then head for the next.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
steveo3002 said:
dont have to raise all 4 wheels at once....i would raise each corner in turn
I can only assume that you have never bled the brakes before. What an absolute shag of a job that would be doing it that way.While you can, I don't think anyone trying both methods would do 1 at a time again.
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