Replacing my i3, with ??
Discussion
It's finally time, after coming up to 5 years of entirely troubly free, insanely cheap local motoring, our i3's time is up.
Changes of circumstances and the knock on effects of C19 are morphing how we use our cars, and we need to reshuffle our fleet a bit.
Currently, we have the little battery (100 miles best case, 60 miles worst case) i3 as our "go to" car. it does everything local, and all the commuting (of around 50 miles a day) and a diesel esate car that does the long trips, camping, mountain biking and scuba diving all over the UK. (and a 600bhp toy in the garage, but as that is litterally the least practical car ever made, i'm ignoring it here.... ;-)
The estate is off, and replacing it is going to be a camper van, for more away-from-home capability for the aformentioned sports. This leaves us in the ideal case with needing a little bit more range daily/ weekly, but not massively so.
Now, my head says "just buy a Kona EV" or similar with great range, and a great price, but my heart LOVES the i3. It's such a great car, quirky, brilliant fun to drive, and looking to be incredibly depreciation proof. None of those things can you say about some of the other more, er, bread 'n butter EVs.
So, i'm thinking of swapping the i3 for...... another i3! DOH! Breaking my "never own the same car twice" rule, but there are a number of low mileage I3s's popping up, with a battery twice as big as our current i3, this makes a few trips, (say once every couple of weeks) a lot easier than currently is the case.
Have i missed anything? I'm thinking around the £25k price point, with a little room to maneouver maybe for a really good spec etc?
Changes of circumstances and the knock on effects of C19 are morphing how we use our cars, and we need to reshuffle our fleet a bit.
Currently, we have the little battery (100 miles best case, 60 miles worst case) i3 as our "go to" car. it does everything local, and all the commuting (of around 50 miles a day) and a diesel esate car that does the long trips, camping, mountain biking and scuba diving all over the UK. (and a 600bhp toy in the garage, but as that is litterally the least practical car ever made, i'm ignoring it here.... ;-)
The estate is off, and replacing it is going to be a camper van, for more away-from-home capability for the aformentioned sports. This leaves us in the ideal case with needing a little bit more range daily/ weekly, but not massively so.
Now, my head says "just buy a Kona EV" or similar with great range, and a great price, but my heart LOVES the i3. It's such a great car, quirky, brilliant fun to drive, and looking to be incredibly depreciation proof. None of those things can you say about some of the other more, er, bread 'n butter EVs.
So, i'm thinking of swapping the i3 for...... another i3! DOH! Breaking my "never own the same car twice" rule, but there are a number of low mileage I3s's popping up, with a battery twice as big as our current i3, this makes a few trips, (say once every couple of weeks) a lot easier than currently is the case.
Have i missed anything? I'm thinking around the £25k price point, with a little room to maneouver maybe for a really good spec etc?
I had an original i3 BEV 100/60 mile range as you have. Now I've an i3s 120ah and the range even in the depths of winter hasn't dropped below 125miles, summer I've had over 190miles on the range meter at full charge. Like you, not my only car as I've got an alternative for the long schleps up and down the country but as the go-to for nearly every journey its ideal. And an 's' model is far more stable on motorways then the standard car.
I think it's utterly brilliant, so practical, so cheap, so nippy, so nerdy in its design. No other EV really interests me if I'm honest - even BMW have pivoted back to making pretty dull battery powered conventional models.
It comes to the end of its lease in December but I'll see if I can negotiate its purchase. As I know it and spec'd it from new with all the lovely interior trim and equipment options, I'd even pay a premium.
I think it's utterly brilliant, so practical, so cheap, so nippy, so nerdy in its design. No other EV really interests me if I'm honest - even BMW have pivoted back to making pretty dull battery powered conventional models.
It comes to the end of its lease in December but I'll see if I can negotiate its purchase. As I know it and spec'd it from new with all the lovely interior trim and equipment options, I'd even pay a premium.
The i3 must be an absolute dead cert for future classic status. I seem to remember reading that they were built to higher standards of durability (2x?) than regular BMWs since long life was part of the sustainability effort. Of course all the carbon and aluminium should lay corrosion worries to rest?
Is it possible to retrofit the 120ah battery into the earliest cars?
Is it possible to retrofit the 120ah battery into the earliest cars?
There seem to be loads of former i3 owners in the VW ID.3 groups.
It doesn't have quite the same level of quirkiness but there's a lot of cues they cribbed from the i3. Loads more space for stuff on the longer trips, plus a very neat optional towbar for bike racks that hides behind the numberplate. And in typical VW fashion, quietly being discounted so just over £26k will get you in a new midsize battery (260 mile WLTP), 200bhp one. Base "life" spec but that has all you'd want really.
If you really like the i3 though it makes a lot of sense to grab a 120ah one now and run it into the ground.
It doesn't have quite the same level of quirkiness but there's a lot of cues they cribbed from the i3. Loads more space for stuff on the longer trips, plus a very neat optional towbar for bike racks that hides behind the numberplate. And in typical VW fashion, quietly being discounted so just over £26k will get you in a new midsize battery (260 mile WLTP), 200bhp one. Base "life" spec but that has all you'd want really.
If you really like the i3 though it makes a lot of sense to grab a 120ah one now and run it into the ground.
AnotherClarkey said:
The i3 must be an absolute dead cert for future classic status.
I think so. Exotic construction, relatively low volume, expensive when new, loved by it's owners. Got classic wrote big all over it!AnotherClarkey said:
Is it possible to retrofit the 120ah battery into the earliest cars?
This would be the best option, and if i had time i'd do a DIY swap, but i haven't got time :-(There's nothing like it is there? We had a 120ah i3 for 12 months but dropped it back in April last year when Covid hit as no need for 2 cars and refused to let the Tesla go. Would have another in a heartbeat.
Go for an i3S and convince yourself it's something different?
Go for an i3S and convince yourself it's something different?
Edited by SWoll on Monday 1st March 20:22
Can’t help with your replacement predicament Max_Torque, but I am eyeing up i3s myself.
I was looking at 94Ah models, but actually would be interested to know more about your experience with range on the 60Ah version.
Essentially the cars main duty will be commuting - 35miles each way with roughly 50/50 mix of dual carriageways and rural A roads.
Charging posts at work. 22kW AC chargers at 40p an hour.
Having used an eGolf for a few months over 2017/2018 winter, (I can’t remember if it was a 24kwh or 35) I kinda felt like the 60 Ah would be a bit “tight”. Especially if for whatever reason, I can’t charge at work.
But yes, would be happy to hear thoughts on the suitability of the 60 in this case.
I was looking at 94Ah models, but actually would be interested to know more about your experience with range on the 60Ah version.
Essentially the cars main duty will be commuting - 35miles each way with roughly 50/50 mix of dual carriageways and rural A roads.
Charging posts at work. 22kW AC chargers at 40p an hour.
Having used an eGolf for a few months over 2017/2018 winter, (I can’t remember if it was a 24kwh or 35) I kinda felt like the 60 Ah would be a bit “tight”. Especially if for whatever reason, I can’t charge at work.
But yes, would be happy to hear thoughts on the suitability of the 60 in this case.
Otispunkmeyer said:
Can’t help with your replacement predicament Max_Torque, but I am eyeing up i3s myself.
I was looking at 94Ah models, but actually would be interested to know more about your experience with range on the 60Ah version.
Essentially the cars main duty will be commuting - 35miles each way with roughly 50/50 mix of dual carriageways and rural A roads.
Charging posts at work. 22kW AC chargers at 40p an hour.
Having used an eGolf for a few months over 2017/2018 winter, (I can’t remember if it was a 24kwh or 35) I kinda felt like the 60 Ah would be a bit “tight”. Especially if for whatever reason, I can’t charge at work.
But yes, would be happy to hear thoughts on the suitability of the 60 in this case.
You’ll not do 70 miles in winter, at least not if you expect to do outrageous things like heating the cabin. I was looking at 94Ah models, but actually would be interested to know more about your experience with range on the 60Ah version.
Essentially the cars main duty will be commuting - 35miles each way with roughly 50/50 mix of dual carriageways and rural A roads.
Charging posts at work. 22kW AC chargers at 40p an hour.
Having used an eGolf for a few months over 2017/2018 winter, (I can’t remember if it was a 24kwh or 35) I kinda felt like the 60 Ah would be a bit “tight”. Especially if for whatever reason, I can’t charge at work.
But yes, would be happy to hear thoughts on the suitability of the 60 in this case.
As long as you can charge it’ll be fine.
Otispunkmeyer said:
Can’t help with your replacement predicament Max_Torque, but I am eyeing up i3s myself.
I was looking at 94Ah models, but actually would be interested to know more about your experience with range on the 60Ah version.
My "normal" commute was 22 miles each way (44 mile round trip) of quite fun B roads, followed by a dash across MK, on grid roads and a bit of the A5. Average trip speed was only around 36 mph, despite er, often, hitting the speed limiter on the i3 on the empty B road bits. The consumption depended mainly on average speed (rather than driving aggresion, as long as you stay away from the friction brakes, which you can mostly) and temperature.I was looking at 94Ah models, but actually would be interested to know more about your experience with range on the 60Ah version.
My absolute best was 6.3 miles per kWh meaning about 110 miles on the 18 odd kWh sourceable from the "little battery" on warm summer days, with heating off and cruising at say 4 to 50 mph
My absolute worst was 3.3 miles per kWh, meaning about 60 miles, driving fast (basically as fast as the car could go) in cold (< 5degC) weather
My 5 year average sits on 4.3 miles/ kWh ie a range of 77 miles.
The i3 doesn't have a great aero performance, but is super low rolling drag, and being light, it can get very very low consumption if driven slowly, but the consumption rockets if driven at constant high speed (> 65 mph approx)
The only thing we had to get used to was not really caring about the range as long as it was bigger than the journey needed, ie even if the range showed just say "11 miles" this is not a problem to drive 3 mile to the supermarket! You'd get in a 11 mile range ICE and think ,crap, this thing needs fuel, but you get in an 11 mile range EV, and think, great, i could manage this 3 mile journey 3 times...
You also quickly learn that if range < distance, you just slow down, because unlike an ICE, consumption decreases with speed right down to pretty much zero mph! I once got stuck in a traffic jam on the M1, showning 25 miles of range and 25 miles to drive, After 2 hours of crawlling at about 10 mph, by the time i got home i still had 25 miles range :-)
if you want an "s" then you'll get a 94 or 120 Ah battery. original 64Ah was discontinued in, iirc mid 2016. Also, early 64Ah may not have the 50kW DC fast charge option (ours does) which became standard at the same time the battery jumped up to 94 Ah i think.
Regarding the "s" it's definately a more normal drive, and i think looks way better than the non-s.
But i actually really like the way the non-s drives, as it's so reactive and light on it's feet, and the s feels like not only did they add more grip (wider tyres, lower ride height) they also set it up to it drive in a much more, linear, even perhaps slightly dull by comparison fashion. The original car could be a handful if you were clumsy with your inputs, but the benefit was a car that had just the most brilliant front end response (considering the modest tyres fitted) especially in the wet, where it could be coaxed into a lovely 4 wheel drift around bends.
But i actually really like the way the non-s drives, as it's so reactive and light on it's feet, and the s feels like not only did they add more grip (wider tyres, lower ride height) they also set it up to it drive in a much more, linear, even perhaps slightly dull by comparison fashion. The original car could be a handful if you were clumsy with your inputs, but the benefit was a car that had just the most brilliant front end response (considering the modest tyres fitted) especially in the wet, where it could be coaxed into a lovely 4 wheel drift around bends.
Max_Torque said:
Regarding the "s" it's definately a more normal drive, and i think looks way better than the non-s.
But i actually really like the way the non-s drives, as it's so reactive and light on it's feet, and the s feels like not only did they add more grip (wider tyres, lower ride height) they also set it up to it drive in a much more, linear, even perhaps slightly dull by comparison fashion. The original car could be a handful if you were clumsy with your inputs, but the benefit was a car that had just the most brilliant front end response (considering the modest tyres fitted) especially in the wet, where it could be coaxed into a lovely 4 wheel drift around bends.
When you say '4 wheel drift' do you actually mean it understeers on fast corners whilst leaning alarmingly? But i actually really like the way the non-s drives, as it's so reactive and light on it's feet, and the s feels like not only did they add more grip (wider tyres, lower ride height) they also set it up to it drive in a much more, linear, even perhaps slightly dull by comparison fashion. The original car could be a handful if you were clumsy with your inputs, but the benefit was a car that had just the most brilliant front end response (considering the modest tyres fitted) especially in the wet, where it could be coaxed into a lovely 4 wheel drift around bends.
Definitely a car better suited to city roads/speeds rather than NSL sweepers I found. Great fun though and kept quite a few hot hatches/sport saloons honest.
SWoll said:
When you say '4 wheel drift' do you actually mean it understeers on fast corners whilst leaning alarmingly?
Definitely a car better suited to city roads/speeds rather than NSL sweepers I found. Great fun though and kept quite a few hot hatches/sport saloons honest.
was yours a REX? The REX is noticable worse handling by some margin. IME, the BEV doesn't lean alarmingly, and actually oversteers not understeers!Definitely a car better suited to city roads/speeds rather than NSL sweepers I found. Great fun though and kept quite a few hot hatches/sport saloons honest.
Again, i'll come back to the necessary finess with the control inputs. If you arrive at a corner, stamp hard on the anchors, yank the handwheel over and expect it to just go round the bend like most massively over tyred modern cars you'r gonna be disappointed, very, very disappointed!
Brake gently (preferably with your left foot to avoid having to lift into regen), settle the nose for about a second, then turn in, CAREFULLY, immediately come off the brakes and make sure you have a decent amount of power on (this is where the left foot braking really scores, because you already do), as you dial in the lock, add more power, the nose will sniff out the apex and stay nailed there whilst the rear arcs gradually wide, to the point you end up with no positive lock on, and the car is 4wheel drifting around. Thanks to modest tyres, this fun is available at sensible everyday speeds :-)
it actually drives like a S1 elise i think, a car that was similarly unforgiving of being thrown around by ham fisted drivers, but when driven with care and smoothness was incredibly rewarding ;-)
No, 120ah BEV. All that weight pushed towards the rear + skinny tyres are always going to lead to understeer at speed, especially in the wet.
Covered 15k in ours in 12 months of mixed driving. I stand by my suggestion it's a car much better suited to city driving, especially if it's a windy day.
Covered 15k in ours in 12 months of mixed driving. I stand by my suggestion it's a car much better suited to city driving, especially if it's a windy day.
Max_Torque said:
My "normal" commute was 22 miles each way (44 mile round trip) of quite fun B roads, followed by a dash across MK, on grid roads and a bit of the A5. Average trip speed was only around 36 mph, despite er, often, hitting the speed limiter on the i3 on the empty B road bits. The consumption depended mainly on average speed (rather than driving aggresion, as long as you stay away from the friction brakes, which you can mostly) and temperature.
My absolute best was 6.3 miles per kWh meaning about 110 miles on the 18 odd kWh sourceable from the "little battery" on warm summer days, with heating off and cruising at say 4 to 50 mph
My absolute worst was 3.3 miles per kWh, meaning about 60 miles, driving fast (basically as fast as the car could go) in cold (< 5degC) weather
My 5 year average sits on 4.3 miles/ kWh ie a range of 77 miles.
The i3 doesn't have a great aero performance, but is super low rolling drag, and being light, it can get very very low consumption if driven slowly, but the consumption rockets if driven at constant high speed (> 65 mph approx)
The only thing we had to get used to was not really caring about the range as long as it was bigger than the journey needed, ie even if the range showed just say "11 miles" this is not a problem to drive 3 mile to the supermarket! You'd get in a 11 mile range ICE and think ,crap, this thing needs fuel, but you get in an 11 mile range EV, and think, great, i could manage this 3 mile journey 3 times...
You also quickly learn that if range < distance, you just slow down, because unlike an ICE, consumption decreases with speed right down to pretty much zero mph! I once got stuck in a traffic jam on the M1, showning 25 miles of range and 25 miles to drive, After 2 hours of crawlling at about 10 mph, by the time i got home i still had 25 miles range :-)
if you want an "s" then you'll get a 94 or 120 Ah battery. original 64Ah was discontinued in, iirc mid 2016. Also, early 64Ah may not have the 50kW DC fast charge option (ours does) which became standard at the same time the battery jumped up to 94 Ah i think.
CheersMy absolute best was 6.3 miles per kWh meaning about 110 miles on the 18 odd kWh sourceable from the "little battery" on warm summer days, with heating off and cruising at say 4 to 50 mph
My absolute worst was 3.3 miles per kWh, meaning about 60 miles, driving fast (basically as fast as the car could go) in cold (< 5degC) weather
My 5 year average sits on 4.3 miles/ kWh ie a range of 77 miles.
The i3 doesn't have a great aero performance, but is super low rolling drag, and being light, it can get very very low consumption if driven slowly, but the consumption rockets if driven at constant high speed (> 65 mph approx)
The only thing we had to get used to was not really caring about the range as long as it was bigger than the journey needed, ie even if the range showed just say "11 miles" this is not a problem to drive 3 mile to the supermarket! You'd get in a 11 mile range ICE and think ,crap, this thing needs fuel, but you get in an 11 mile range EV, and think, great, i could manage this 3 mile journey 3 times...
You also quickly learn that if range < distance, you just slow down, because unlike an ICE, consumption decreases with speed right down to pretty much zero mph! I once got stuck in a traffic jam on the M1, showning 25 miles of range and 25 miles to drive, After 2 hours of crawlling at about 10 mph, by the time i got home i still had 25 miles range :-)
if you want an "s" then you'll get a 94 or 120 Ah battery. original 64Ah was discontinued in, iirc mid 2016. Also, early 64Ah may not have the 50kW DC fast charge option (ours does) which became standard at the same time the battery jumped up to 94 Ah i think.
I meant i3 plural, can’t afford an i3s… but there are a number of BEV only i3 with 94Ah available for 13k-15k. The 60s are a few k cheaper and weirdly seems like the REx versions are keenly priced too. I guess the REx actually isn’t that attractive?
Toaster Pilot said:
Absolutely love ours (60Ah REx) although I would give it up over my MG ZS EV if we needed to go down to one car purely on practicality / range / ride comfort.
Would you really choose a MG ZS over an i3!!!I get the comfort of range, but BMW dumped for MG, Hyundais selling out within hours of opening order books, EVs really are turning the motoring world upside-down!
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