DIY on BEVs

[anonymous-user]

Apologies if this thas been asked before.....

As someone who's done all their own servicing and repairs for the best part of 40 years, I was wondering whether BEVs are (or ever will be) a DIY proposition for repairs & servicing. I'm not even sure what 'servicing' would entail!

[Chris32345]

Repairs to bodywork and interior stuff like fans suspension brake's ect Allmost certainly
The drivemotors /battery's very unlikely

[off_again]

Normal servicing, absolutely. A lot of people already do this and for many mainstream brands, its actually pretty easy. Tires, brakes, interior parts, body, common electronics - easy. In fact, there are a number of forums for particular cars that provide a lot of indepth information on how to do more advanced stuff like battery upgrades, motor replacements etc.

I have an i3 and while it has a lot of unique parts from a body side, pretty much everything from a feature and electronics side is common BMW. I upgraded by screen to the bigger one and there is a nice market for add-on CarPlay / Android Auto upgrades! I even upgraded the speakers on mine the other week with direct replacements too! I also coded it too, auto-fold mirrors etc! So yeah, deffo DIY stuff, just slightly different from what it might have been.

Some manufacturers are more difficult though - yep, looking at Tesla - as they restrict access to parts, components and instructions. They even specifically cripple the car should you try to put a salvage car back on the road (a complete discussion on its own). But, with the wide availability of Tesla models, there is a burgeoning marketplace for DIY stuff now. Suspension, updates, interior, brakes - hell, some people have even added motors etc!

Its different. Its not going to be cracking open the motor and doing internal stuff like that - its really not worth it. But since its almost always plug and play, replacements and the like will be common. Then there is the electronic customization stuff. The Nissan Leaf has a funny reversing noise thing which some owners hate - guess what? You can code it to have that removed! This type of DIY and customization will exist and most likely grow.

[ZesPak]

off_again said:

Its different. Its not going to be cracking open the motor and doing internal stuff like that - its really not worth it. But since its almost always plug and play, replacements and the like will be common. Then there is the electronic customization stuff. The Nissan Leaf has a funny reversing noise thing which some owners hate - guess what? You can code it to have that removed! This type of DIY and customization will exist and most likely grow.

I've yet to see people crack open motors, as you say, but multiple are doing it with batteries, finding faulty cells and replacing them.
Not something I'd advise as a DIY job though.

[anonymous-user]

Most DIY people won't crack open a motor or inverter, just like most people won't crack open a modern ICE and mulitspeed auto gearbox! Both units are far to sealed and complex for DIY messing.......


However, because of the fundamental simplicity of an electric motor (voltage drives current to produce magnitism that provides a force) the DIY community is already cracking and messing with BEV powertrains. Look on a forum like endless-sphere and you'll see cracked Tesla motors and inverters, DC fast charging interfaces, BMS systems and well, everything really. Yes it's a different skill set to say timing in a camshaft, but it's honestly no more difficult really ;-)

[Mikehig]

A few nights ago there was a TV show where Guy Martin was trying to break an EV drag strip record using an electro-modded Beetle. He took it to a specialist who played with various control parameters with the car on a dyno and pushed the power up by about 30%, iirc. It looked very similar to chipping an ICE car - all done electronically.

[kambites]

ZesPak said:

Not something I'd advise as a DIY job though.

Nor is dismantling a modern gearbox to be honest.

Personally I'd be far more confident diagnosing and fixing a fault with a battery pack than with a DCT. Obviously there is a risk, but plenty of people (myself included) do DIY electrical work around the house; obviously 4-800 volts DC is considerably more dangerous than 240 volt AC, but either could kill you so the precautions are much the same in both cases.

[DaveE87]

Mikehig said:

A few nights ago there was a TV show where Guy Martin was trying to break an EV drag strip record using an electro-modded Beetle. He took it to a specialist who played with various control parameters with the car on a dyno and pushed the power up by about 30%, iirc. It looked very similar to chipping an ICE car - all done electronically.

I was wondering recently how long it will take before aftermarket remapping of electric vehicles becomes more widespread. I can see it going in the opposite direction though. Who needs a 700+bhp Tesla if it can be "mapped" to 300bhp with an increase in range.

[ZesPak]

DaveE87 said:

I was wondering recently how long it will take before aftermarket remapping of electric vehicles becomes more widespread. I can see it going in the opposite direction though. Who needs a 700+bhp Tesla if it can be "mapped" to 300bhp with an increase in range.

"remapping" it to 300bhp won't increase the range significantly. There's always the option to not floor it everywhere you go.
And any Tesla with a 700bhp already has plenty of range. Downtuning it to 300bhp seems like the most un-PH like thing to do.

[randlemarcus]

off_again said:

Some manufacturers are more difficult though - yep, looking at Tesla - as they restrict access to parts, components and instructions. They even specifically cripple the car should you try to put a salvage car back on the road (a complete discussion on its own). But, with the wide availability of Tesla models, there is a burgeoning marketplace for DIY stuff now. Suspension, updates, interior, brakes - hell, some people have even added motors etc!

Slightly torn on this one. Written off for cost, should be nothing to do with Tesla ideally. Written off because it's knackered, I don't see much wrong with it being permanently killed. Will impact Coparts business model, but that's down to the insurers to manage the costs.

[walamai]

Max_Torque said:

Most DIY people won't crack open a motor or inverter, just like most people won't crack open a modern ICE and mulitspeed auto gearbox! Both units are far to sealed and complex for DIY messing.......


However, because of the fundamental simplicity of an electric motor (voltage drives current to produce magnitism that provides a force) the DIY community is already cracking and messing with BEV powertrains. Look on a forum like endless-sphere and you'll see cracked Tesla motors and inverters, DC fast charging interfaces, BMS systems and well, everything really. Yes it's a different skill set to say timing in a camshaft, but it's honestly no more difficult really ;-)

Yep, exactly this.

There are already several fairly mature 3rd party control systems for Tesla and Leaf drivetrains. Some work by retaining the OEM Inverters etc but sending their own CAN bus signals. So almost a 'plug and play' system. They are catering to the EV conversion market at the moment, but I can see them becoming an option for 'tuning' your EV. You can control ramp up rates, regen, whatever you want really.

Then you can take it to the next level and replace the OEM inverter (the thing that takes DC current from the batteries and sends it to the 3 phase motor). For example up to Gen 2 Leaf is 85kW from factory (and you won't get more than that using a CAN controller as above), but there are people using https://openinverter.org/ pushing 135kW+ out of the Leaf motor. So far mostly used when dropping that drivetrain in another car, but no reason you couldn't drop it into a Leaf.

Both of these approaches are going to get more mature and as the price of used EV's drops (the 'sportier' ones in particular) I can see people doing this sort of thing more and more.

[DaveE87]

ZesPak said:

"remapping" it to 300bhp won't increase the range significantly. There's always the option to not floor it everywhere you go.
And any Tesla with a 700bhp already has plenty of range. Downtuning it to 300bhp seems like the most un-PH like thing to do.

How effective are eco modes on ICE cars? It will vary of course but for all I know all the electric cars already have them (I've never been in one).

[ZesPak]

DaveE87 said:

How effective are eco modes on ICE cars? It will vary of course but for all I know all the electric cars already have them (I've never been in one).

In an EV, they can extend the range quite significantly. But a lot (as with mpg) comes down to your driving style.
In a Tesla it's mostly throttle response that's noticeable in eco, as well as climate control.

[the-sharpener]

welcome to the most boring/intresting channel on you tube

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtr07mdKhsUwVJjL8...

weber auto where EVs get stripped

[off_again]

ZesPak said:

DaveE87 said:

How effective are eco modes on ICE cars? It will vary of course but for all I know all the electric cars already have them (I've never been in one).

In an EV, they can extend the range quite significantly. But a lot (as with mpg) comes down to your driving style.
In a Tesla it's mostly throttle response that's noticeable in eco, as well as climate control.

Standard mode on the i3 is nice and everything works as you might imagine.

EcoPro mode softens up the throttle MASSIVELY and you get much reduced power usage with the aircon / heating and maximum speed. EcoPro+ mode disables aircon & heating, except for the minimum and limits the top speed to 60!

Ok, to be expected and just software control stuff, but changing from Standard to EcoPro will see something like 5-10 miles added to the range and with EcoPro+ you are likely to get another 10 or so miles range. It does make a difference, but I find the reduction in functions too much.

My daughter (a new driver) really likes the EcoPro mode because it softens up the throttle a lot, so she finds it easier to maintain a speed, but gets full function on everything else.

So yeah, range / eco modes on EV's absolutely make a difference and 5-10 miles might not sound like much, but on the i3 thats a 5% - 10% jump, and that can make a difference.

[bigothunter]

ZesPak said:

"remapping" it to 300bhp won't increase the range significantly. There's always the option to not floor it everywhere you go.
And any Tesla with a 700bhp already has plenty of range. Downtuning it to 300bhp seems like the most un-PH like thing to do.

With the Mumsnet brigade so prevalent on PH today, the demand for remapping to 100hp could be high. Don't forget SPEED NO LONGER MATTERS

[off_again]

randlemarcus said:

off_again said:

Some manufacturers are more difficult though - yep, looking at Tesla - as they restrict access to parts, components and instructions. They even specifically cripple the car should you try to put a salvage car back on the road (a complete discussion on its own). But, with the wide availability of Tesla models, there is a burgeoning marketplace for DIY stuff now. Suspension, updates, interior, brakes - hell, some people have even added motors etc!

Slightly torn on this one. Written off for cost, should be nothing to do with Tesla ideally. Written off because it's knackered, I don't see much wrong with it being permanently killed. Will impact Coparts business model, but that's down to the insurers to manage the costs.

Yeah, its an odd one.

In general, safety really does have to be number one. We have an issue with dodgy ICE cars on the road, the last thing we need is to have super dangerous EV's that could catch fire at any moment. That said though, they are fundamentally simpler and, as we have seen, many are 'written off' for simple issues that could very easily be repaired. In fact, due to lack of knowledge, many are just passed off to the likes of Copart that just shouldnt be there!

We have also seen some dodgy business practices from the likes of Tesla too - when they control the parts supply, access to 'official' repair capabilities AND they control the charging network; they get to make the rules and control them. Thankfully other vendors dont seem to be falling into this behavior (yet), and maybe Tesla is going to change?

But, the real kicker for me is the premise behind an EV. Easy to repair because its simpler. Easy to recycle because of the design and components. Easy to re-use in other things. You know, save the planet and all of that. But what I have failed to see if a real concerted effort from any vendor to actually do this. Yes, there are Prius, Leaf and even i3 recycling centers, but this is small scale operations that are as yet to be doing things at scale. If these manufacturers REALLY want to commit, its got to be about the whole lifecycle, and publishing a few sponsored papers about how wonderful they are (yes, I am looking at you Tesla), doesnt cut it. Until they embrace the full end-to-end of their vehicles, its just another high priced product that we throw away at the end....

Thankfully, some people are doing something - Rich Rebuilds on YouTube is a great example and I encourage anyone to check out his channel.