Discussion
We have 2 diesel cars and a GT86 at the moment and while the '86 is off to make it into a track focused car, we still have 2 diesel vehicles which get used for a lot of local journeys where I think replacing one with an EV would make more sense.
I've read a lot on EV buying but on here, but most of you are buying through company schemes where you can count BiK savings, or via your own company. This would be a private purchase. So I need the collective wisdom of PH to help with a few questions:
Is it worth it? We'd be getting rid of my 2017 Superb estate, worth around £17k and I'd look to spend the equivalent or slightly more on a EV, would the kind of thing available to us at that price be any good - what kind of battery life could I expect as a percentage of new?
What's the best buy? Not just in terms of cost, but also practicality (daughter is ferried here and there, often with mates and often with kit for 2 or 3 horses) and stylishness (I like the looks of the i3, to me the Leaf and the Zoe are a bit bland).
Pitfalls? What should I look out for - signs that a car has had a hard life?
What am I missing? Would it actually work for us - I work mainly from home or I'm on the train to London or a plane into Europe so I don't commute. Wife commutes 3 days a week to the local town, 5 miles away. Daughter gets bus to school. So we don't do a lot of short trips on a regular basis, however we do visit friends & family/shop etc. all within 30 miles or so of home. We'd still have my wife's diesel Evoque for longer journeys.
The alternative is a small petrol hatchback - wife had a Up afew years ago which was perfectly good for local trips and did 60mpg - does a £17k EV offer enough of an advantage over a say, £7k Up and £10k to spend on the GT86.....?
I've read a lot on EV buying but on here, but most of you are buying through company schemes where you can count BiK savings, or via your own company. This would be a private purchase. So I need the collective wisdom of PH to help with a few questions:
Is it worth it? We'd be getting rid of my 2017 Superb estate, worth around £17k and I'd look to spend the equivalent or slightly more on a EV, would the kind of thing available to us at that price be any good - what kind of battery life could I expect as a percentage of new?
What's the best buy? Not just in terms of cost, but also practicality (daughter is ferried here and there, often with mates and often with kit for 2 or 3 horses) and stylishness (I like the looks of the i3, to me the Leaf and the Zoe are a bit bland).
Pitfalls? What should I look out for - signs that a car has had a hard life?
What am I missing? Would it actually work for us - I work mainly from home or I'm on the train to London or a plane into Europe so I don't commute. Wife commutes 3 days a week to the local town, 5 miles away. Daughter gets bus to school. So we don't do a lot of short trips on a regular basis, however we do visit friends & family/shop etc. all within 30 miles or so of home. We'd still have my wife's diesel Evoque for longer journeys.
The alternative is a small petrol hatchback - wife had a Up afew years ago which was perfectly good for local trips and did 60mpg - does a £17k EV offer enough of an advantage over a say, £7k Up and £10k to spend on the GT86.....?
Shorter distances in anything like a petrol or diesel will never be efficient. You can get 60mpg out of a modern diesel, but not when you are doing 3 miles each way.... for distances like this, an EV makes perfect sense. They wont be as efficient too, but given that you are saving money and making things easier (pre-warm / cool). So yeah, might be a good choice.
You mentioned the i3 - good choice. I have one and its been great. But they are NOT a good purchase brand new, as it is way too expensive. As a second hand purchase, make great sense. Drop like a stone and hold up well, so a wise purchase. But given the distances, the Zoe is a pretty good choice too - my sis ran two for years and loved them, even the short range one. Easy and simple. Also, consider the Leaf - not the most exciting, but a big wide choice of models and years and supposed to be cheap as chips to run (outside of the battery). Might be worth considering.
You mentioned the i3 - good choice. I have one and its been great. But they are NOT a good purchase brand new, as it is way too expensive. As a second hand purchase, make great sense. Drop like a stone and hold up well, so a wise purchase. But given the distances, the Zoe is a pretty good choice too - my sis ran two for years and loved them, even the short range one. Easy and simple. Also, consider the Leaf - not the most exciting, but a big wide choice of models and years and supposed to be cheap as chips to run (outside of the battery). Might be worth considering.
off_again said:
Shorter distances in anything like a petrol or diesel will never be efficient. You can get 60mpg out of a modern diesel, but not when you are doing 3 miles each way.... for distances like this, an EV makes perfect sense. They wont be as efficient too, but given that you are saving money and making things easier (pre-warm / cool). So yeah, might be a good choice.
EVs don't warm up? They're as efficient when you switch them on as they are going to get, barring a tiny fraction of a percent due to lubricant in reduction gearboxes warming through.
Mark Benson said:
We have 2 diesel cars and a GT86 at the moment and while the '86 is off to make it into a track focused car, we still have 2 diesel vehicles which get used for a lot of local journeys where I think replacing one with an EV would make more sense.
I've read a lot on EV buying but on here, but most of you are buying through company schemes where you can count BiK savings, or via your own company. This would be a private purchase. So I need the collective wisdom of PH to help with a few questions:
Is it worth it? We'd be getting rid of my 2017 Superb estate, worth around £17k and I'd look to spend the equivalent or slightly more on a EV, would the kind of thing available to us at that price be any good - what kind of battery life could I expect as a percentage of new?
What's the best buy? Not just in terms of cost, but also practicality (daughter is ferried here and there, often with mates and often with kit for 2 or 3 horses) and stylishness (I like the looks of the i3, to me the Leaf and the Zoe are a bit bland).
Pitfalls? What should I look out for - signs that a car has had a hard life?
What am I missing? Would it actually work for us - I work mainly from home or I'm on the train to London or a plane into Europe so I don't commute. Wife commutes 3 days a week to the local town, 5 miles away. Daughter gets bus to school. So we don't do a lot of short trips on a regular basis, however we do visit friends & family/shop etc. all within 30 miles or so of home. We'd still have my wife's diesel Evoque for longer journeys.
The alternative is a small petrol hatchback - wife had a Up afew years ago which was perfectly good for local trips and did 60mpg - does a £17k EV offer enough of an advantage over a say, £7k Up and £10k to spend on the GT86.....?
We were in much the same situation having 2 cars but doing predominantly local journeys. I’d never had an EV before and had similar concerns.I've read a lot on EV buying but on here, but most of you are buying through company schemes where you can count BiK savings, or via your own company. This would be a private purchase. So I need the collective wisdom of PH to help with a few questions:
Is it worth it? We'd be getting rid of my 2017 Superb estate, worth around £17k and I'd look to spend the equivalent or slightly more on a EV, would the kind of thing available to us at that price be any good - what kind of battery life could I expect as a percentage of new?
What's the best buy? Not just in terms of cost, but also practicality (daughter is ferried here and there, often with mates and often with kit for 2 or 3 horses) and stylishness (I like the looks of the i3, to me the Leaf and the Zoe are a bit bland).
Pitfalls? What should I look out for - signs that a car has had a hard life?
What am I missing? Would it actually work for us - I work mainly from home or I'm on the train to London or a plane into Europe so I don't commute. Wife commutes 3 days a week to the local town, 5 miles away. Daughter gets bus to school. So we don't do a lot of short trips on a regular basis, however we do visit friends & family/shop etc. all within 30 miles or so of home. We'd still have my wife's diesel Evoque for longer journeys.
The alternative is a small petrol hatchback - wife had a Up afew years ago which was perfectly good for local trips and did 60mpg - does a £17k EV offer enough of an advantage over a say, £7k Up and £10k to spend on the GT86.....?
Having mulled over buying an i3 with a range extender as a decent compromise we eventually plumped for an i3 120ah and have no regrets.
Battery life isn’t much of a concern (there are many examples of cars with 100k+ miles still going strong) and financially it makes so much sense. I charge overnight with a 3 pin plug charger at 5p/kWh and get the equivalent of something like 500mpg (if my maths is correct!) with no outlay for a wall charger. Servicing is minimal (my first service is in a couple of years for brake fluid).
The only issue is that the i3 is a strict 4 seater. If that works for you then go for it, they’re funky looking, good to drive, cheap to run; what’s not to like.
We have a bigger car because we occasionally need 5 seats but it’s hardly used as the i3 does the day to day stuff so we’ll.
hidetheelephants said:
off_again said:
Shorter distances in anything like a petrol or diesel will never be efficient. You can get 60mpg out of a modern diesel, but not when you are doing 3 miles each way.... for distances like this, an EV makes perfect sense. They wont be as efficient too, but given that you are saving money and making things easier (pre-warm / cool). So yeah, might be a good choice.
EVs don't warm up? They're as efficient when you switch them on as they are going to get, barring a tiny fraction of a percent due to lubricant in reduction gearboxes warming through.
Any vehicle isnt going to be at its most efficient in stop-start traffic for 3 miles. An EV will be more efficient than a diesel or petrol, but its not going to get to its most efficient M/kWh average. If i just bimble around tow in the i3, I get a pretty consistent 3.7-3.9 - not bad, but get it out on 50-60 MPH sweeping roads with little or no braking needed, that jumps up to 4.4 and above. Sorry I wasnt concentrating, but yeah, its all down to efficiency etc. An EV doing 3 miles per day is going to be way better than a diesel or petrol, but dont go expecting its going to get the full advertized range doing this day in and out - it wont. It will still be WAAAY cheaper to run and fuel though.
Mark Benson said:
Is it worth it? We'd be getting rid of my 2017 Superb estate, worth around £17k and I'd look to spend the equivalent or slightly more on a EV, would the kind of thing available to us at that price be any good - what kind of battery life could I expect as a percentage of new?
Filtering EV's between £16k and £22k on Autotrader gives about 500 results, with ages from 2014 to 2020. So plenty of choice in the first instance and some good looking cars (based on adverts!). In general battery life isn't the big drama it's made out to be - early Leafs aside. As battery packs get bigger it reduces the cycles down so degradation isn't such an issue but each model is different - narrow down this first, then ask for advice.The more miles you do the bigger the savings - 2p/mile or less -v- 15p/mile (guess?) on your Skoda. No road tax. Generally cheaper servicing. Insurance isn't an issue.
Mark Benson said:
What's the best buy? Not just in terms of cost, but also practicality (daughter is ferried here and there, often with mates and often with kit for 2 or 3 horses) and stylishness (I like the looks of the i3, to me the Leaf and the Zoe are a bit bland).
i3 is a good car in many ways, but check to see if it's practical enough for your needs. Zoe is generally considered "stylish" I'm told and they're surprisingly practical. Leaf is polarising but very good and practical. Personally not impressed by MB B-class, Smart, or eGolf offerings, but YMMV. Soul is a wild card but well worth a look.Mark Benson said:
Pitfalls? What should I look out for - signs that a car has had a hard life?
In general just approach it like any other car, regardless of power source. Satisfy yourself as to the conventional bits before thinking about batteries. In general electric motors are exceptionally long lasting and reliable.Mark Benson said:
What am I missing? Would it actually work for us - I work mainly from home or I'm on the train to London or a plane into Europe so I don't commute. Wife commutes 3 days a week to the local town, 5 miles away. Daughter gets bus to school. So we don't do a lot of short trips on a regular basis, however we do visit friends & family/shop etc. all within 30 miles or so of home. We'd still have my wife's diesel Evoque for longer journeys.
The only thing you've not said is if you can easily charge at home, but I'm assuming so from what you have said. If so, then your proposed usage would be absolutely a good fit to almost any reasonable sized battery EV. Even a relatively small "new" range of c. 125 miles would be more than ample for probably many years.You could probably just use 3-pin charging but this is very slow. A proper charger makes charging a lot quicker.
My only "warning" is that most people buy an EV as a 2nd car and end up switching more and more miles onto it in preference to the other vehicle, so consider whether this might happen to you and factor it in!
The sub £20k market is all pretty small cars. I'm going to grab a used i3 in the new year as my local runabout. I can't say that the battery aspect concerns me but if I knew that a lot of my journeys would be ferrying three children with riding kit then I wouldn't be looking at an i3. The boot space is pretty much a Waitrose daily shopper sort of affair and the rear doors are a little annoying for regular use.
Are there any hybrid estates at rhat sort of price? You'd get EV benefits for local pottering but all the easy practicality of a normal estate car?
Are there any hybrid estates at rhat sort of price? You'd get EV benefits for local pottering but all the easy practicality of a normal estate car?
Thanks all, lots of good advice and food for thought.
We have plenty of room for charging so it would be plugged in every night - no worries there.
The kids/riding gear stuff, wife's Evoque can just about do that and discussing the kind of journeys we do most regularly, we only came up with that one scenario and the scenario where we'd be travelling outside the range of an average EV where we would probably use something bigger.
We'll probably trade the Evoque in for a proper horsebox/car trailer tow car in the new year anyway, so that'll do the outlier journeys.
Importantly, my wife is now keen on an EV and likes the i3, I think the reassurances about battery life (friends had an early Leaf) have helped on that score.
Good to hear you real life experiences, thank you all.
We have plenty of room for charging so it would be plugged in every night - no worries there.
The kids/riding gear stuff, wife's Evoque can just about do that and discussing the kind of journeys we do most regularly, we only came up with that one scenario and the scenario where we'd be travelling outside the range of an average EV where we would probably use something bigger.
We'll probably trade the Evoque in for a proper horsebox/car trailer tow car in the new year anyway, so that'll do the outlier journeys.
Importantly, my wife is now keen on an EV and likes the i3, I think the reassurances about battery life (friends had an early Leaf) have helped on that score.
Good to hear you real life experiences, thank you all.
RobDickinson said:
Last time I saw any data the i3 battery pack health on average was doing crazy good, basically like most active cooled battery packs (and not very leaf like at all..)
My 120Ah 2019 which went back last month with 49k on the clock had suffered only 7% deg when I went into the secret menu to have a lookhttps://youtu.be/dIP_lThJYWE
caseys said:
RobDickinson said:
Last time I saw any data the i3 battery pack health on average was doing crazy good, basically like most active cooled battery packs (and not very leaf like at all..)
My 120Ah 2019 which went back last month with 49k on the clock had suffered only 7% deg when I went into the secret menu to have a lookhttps://youtu.be/dIP_lThJYWE
If you want to dip your toe in the water why not lease?
I never realised it was so cheap.
Sold my 2009 Subaru Forester
Seat Mii via Stoneacre, 3 years, 10,000 miles per year, £2k down and £163 a month.
Won't suit everyone, I use it for a 32 mile round trip into S.E London everyday, and its great.
Have to add for £8 a month subscription I get access to free workplace Bp charging.
Save £100 a month diesel and £200 a month ULEZ. No road tax, no MOT.
I never realised it was so cheap.
Sold my 2009 Subaru Forester
Seat Mii via Stoneacre, 3 years, 10,000 miles per year, £2k down and £163 a month.
Won't suit everyone, I use it for a 32 mile round trip into S.E London everyday, and its great.
Have to add for £8 a month subscription I get access to free workplace Bp charging.
Save £100 a month diesel and £200 a month ULEZ. No road tax, no MOT.
Mark Benson said:
caseys said:
RobDickinson said:
Last time I saw any data the i3 battery pack health on average was doing crazy good, basically like most active cooled battery packs (and not very leaf like at all..)
My 120Ah 2019 which went back last month with 49k on the clock had suffered only 7% deg when I went into the secret menu to have a lookhttps://youtu.be/dIP_lThJYWE
Fantastic city EV though, loved the 12 months and 15k miles we did in our 2019 120ah and would have another tomorrow.
audikentman said:
If you want to dip your toe in the water why not lease?
I never realised it was so cheap.
Sold my 2009 Subaru Forester
Seat Mii via Stoneacre, 3 years, 10,000 miles per year, £2k down and £163 a month.
Won't suit everyone, I use it for a 32 mile round trip into S.E London everyday, and its great.
Have to add for £8 a month subscription I get access to free workplace Bp charging.
Save £100 a month diesel and £200 a month ULEZ. No road tax, no MOT.
For a proper toe dip maybe give https://on.to/ a try? We've been with them for 2.5 years and on many of their cars the costs are very reasonable for an all inclusive solution with 1 month commitment. Came in very handy when lockdown kicked in as able to off hire a vehicle within a fortnight in the knowledge it would get no use for months.I never realised it was so cheap.
Sold my 2009 Subaru Forester
Seat Mii via Stoneacre, 3 years, 10,000 miles per year, £2k down and £163 a month.
Won't suit everyone, I use it for a 32 mile round trip into S.E London everyday, and its great.
Have to add for £8 a month subscription I get access to free workplace Bp charging.
Save £100 a month diesel and £200 a month ULEZ. No road tax, no MOT.
As an example a VW e-UP is £339 a month for 12k miles with everything included with on.to. A 2 year lease for 12k miles per year without any extras is £250.
Edited by SWoll on Wednesday 10th November 11:19
5 years of i3 ownership from 2016 to 2021.
Bought ex-demo from main dealer for £16,250 with 367 miles on the clock. (nobody wanted one back then....)
Part-ex'd at the start of this year with 29,000 miles on the clock for £15,000
Total running costs worked out at £50.41 per month over the 5 year period.
Nothing fell off,or went wrong. Car went back looking almost as good as new:
Replaced with a i3s :-)
Bought ex-demo from main dealer for £16,250 with 367 miles on the clock. (nobody wanted one back then....)
Part-ex'd at the start of this year with 29,000 miles on the clock for £15,000
Total running costs worked out at £50.41 per month over the 5 year period.
Nothing fell off,or went wrong. Car went back looking almost as good as new:
Replaced with a i3s :-)
Is a BEV Hyundai Ioniq in your budget range yet? I've had a couple of Nissan Leafs (one 24kwh and currently a 30kwh), and I've loved them and don't really see the need for any more range or capabilities than my current one gives me, but I accept the looks aren't for everyone and can be a deal breaker. The Ioniq is a much better looking car to most people, and I'm given to believe it's a better all round package than the Leaf. I may look for one myself in a couple of years as an alternative to an upgrade to a 40 or 62kwh Leaf.
My Leaf is the absolutely perfect local run around/daily driver. Nearest thing to free motoring you can get.
My Leaf is the absolutely perfect local run around/daily driver. Nearest thing to free motoring you can get.
Bannock said:
Is a BEV Hyundai Ioniq in your budget range yet? I've had a couple of Nissan Leafs (one 24kwh and currently a 30kwh), and I've loved them and don't really see the need for any more range or capabilities than my current one gives me, but I accept the looks aren't for everyone and can be a deal breaker. The Ioniq is a much better looking car to most people, and I'm given to believe it's a better all round package than the Leaf. I may look for one myself in a couple of years as an alternative to an upgrade to a 40 or 62kwh Leaf.
My Leaf is the absolutely perfect local run around/daily driver. Nearest thing to free motoring you can get.
I must say I like the Ioniq. Seems like an underappreciated car to me.My Leaf is the absolutely perfect local run around/daily driver. Nearest thing to free motoring you can get.
Also, even though I've been into EVs for a couple of years, Rory's video was a bit of an eye opener to me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii-iWkdTQ_8&ab...
A car almost a decade old, still requiring near 0 maintenance, costs little to fill up, which you can do at home.
On top of that he mentions it drives like when it was new. No hiccups, no engine rattles/squeaks. Sounds great to me and would be sufficient for 95% of our journeys.
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