Charging - can someone explain it?

[audi321]

Hi all, wife has just bought a Fiat 500e which comes with a 3 pin charging lead but it takes forever to charge.

However, it also has a type 2 cable in the boot too (male at one end, female at the other, presumably for charging at a public charger). Is there anything stopping me buying one of these and connecting it to a 32amp breaker on my consumer unit?

Or do I actually need a 'charger' lead?

Thanks all.

[Knock_knock]

You could either get a "commando" socket installed and use an adaptor or different charging lead, or get a conventional EV charger installed and use the supplied cable.

3-pin socket will give you 10amps (2.1kw), "commando" 16amp (3.5) or maybe 32amp, EV charger will give you 32amp (7.4kw) - rough figures.

I've not done it but understand that a "commando" socket is quite a bit cheaper to install.

[TheDeuce]

Won't work. The car needs to communicate with the charger before it will accept charge - there's a lot of electronics behind the female socket of a home charger to achieve that communication between car and charger. What you have linked to is just the socket component of what would become a charger.

The 3 pin cable you already use has the same electronics in the 'brick' mid cable.

You need a 7kw home charger installing. I'd do so sooner rather than later whilst grants remain. A 7kw charger will fully charge almost any EV overnight with ease.

[TheDeuce]

TheDrownedApe said:

Think you are thinking of a commando socket? They are dumb 7kwh chargers and yes, you can install one and connect your car too it

But the car won't accept the charge will it?

[TheDrownedApe]

TheDeuce said:

But the car won't accept the charge will it?

Lol just deleted my comment. I'm not so sure. I read a lot about commando sockets before getting my ohme installed and I assumed it would charge and use the car's software to judge the rate/level etc

But in the end I spent the cash on an ohme and forget everything I had learnt about other methods....however I think it will (but this baseless)

[Jonny_]

If you want to use a 32A Commando type socket, you'll need an EV charging cable equipped with the box of electronics that tells the car it has up to 7kW available. I believe it should also check that the vehicle is earthed before allowing charging to commence.

Something like this:

https://evonestop.co.uk/products/ev-charging-cable...

[springfan62]

You can get a commando to type charging cable but there is not much of saving unless you already have a 32a commando installed and you don’t get the grant unless you install a proper ev charger.

[essayer]

To charge at 7kW you’ll need to buy a 32A ‘charger’ that has a socket or a tethered cable. That’ll charge about 3x the speed of the 3-pin

The charger/evse install is for all intents and purposes a job for a sparks, it’ll need certification, registration with the electricity supplier, maybe some meter box works, correct earthing design etc. Expect to pay £5-600 for an installed unit after the grant

[SWoll]

What are your daily usage requirememts OP? We've run an i3, Tesla Model 3 and now an eTron 55 over the past 3 years on 3-pin plug for 99% of charging and have covered 30k+ miles in that time.

You should get 10mph of charge on a 3-pin plug in a 500e so an easy 100 miles overnight?

[TheDeuce]

essayer said:

To charge at 7kW you’ll need to buy a 32A ‘charger’ that has a socket or a tethered cable. That’ll charge about 3x the speed of the 3-pin

The charger/evse install is for all intents and purposes a job for a sparks, it’ll need certification, registration with the electricity supplier, maybe some meter box works, correct earthing design etc. Expect to pay £5-600 for an installed unit after the grant

Good point, it comes under notifiable works... Can't be a DIY job.

Anyway, just take the grant and get it installed by a pro - it adds a little value to the house these days so it's not a complex financial decision.

I suppose if the house was rented it might make sense to buy the charger alone and hook it up DIY style.. then take it with you. Or just ask the landlord to go split cost to get it done properly for the sake of the future.

[LunarOne]

[audi321]

SWoll said:

What are your daily usage requirememts OP? We've run an i3, Tesla Model 3 and now an eTron 55 over the past 3 years on 3-pin plug for 99% of charging and have covered 30k+ miles in that time.

You should get 10mph of charge on a 3-pin plug in a 500e so an easy 100 miles overnight?

Good point. Might just stick to 3 pin then. She hardly does more than 30 miles a day, at a push 50.

[SWoll]

audi321 said:

SWoll said:

What are your daily usage requirememts OP? We've run an i3, Tesla Model 3 and now an eTron 55 over the past 3 years on 3-pin plug for 99% of charging and have covered 30k+ miles in that time.

You should get 10mph of charge on a 3-pin plug in a 500e so an easy 100 miles overnight?

Good point. Might just stick to 3 pin then. She hardly does more than 30 miles a day, at a push 50.

You'll be absolutely fine then. Takes an age if you are sitting watching it (like a kettle) but plug in at night and set it to charge from midnight to 7am for the cheap rates and you'll get up to an extra 70 miles every day.

We average a similar distance (30-50 miles) per day and it's not been an issue for us and our last 2 cars have been less efficient than the Fiat. Just keep topping off to about 90% every night rather than letting it run down just in case you have a day with heavier usage needs would be my advice.

[TheDeuce]

audi321 said:

SWoll said:

What are your daily usage requirememts OP? We've run an i3, Tesla Model 3 and now an eTron 55 over the past 3 years on 3-pin plug for 99% of charging and have covered 30k+ miles in that time.

You should get 10mph of charge on a 3-pin plug in a 500e so an easy 100 miles overnight?

Good point. Might just stick to 3 pin then. She hardly does more than 30 miles a day, at a push 50.

Surely you knew when you started the thread whether or not the current charging speed was fast enough!?



Anyway, yes - for 30-50 miles a day just use the three pin it'll do over 100 miles in a night easy. If you want to save some ££ it's also worth asking your electricity supplier about cheap overnight tariffs.

[audi321]

Well I am confused as after watching that YouTube video above it implies that these wall chargers aren’t actually chargers but just a supply. The car has the charger onboard?

I’m confused.com so will just stick with the 3 pin for now

[SWoll]

TheDeuce said:

Surely you knew when you started the thread whether or not the current charging speed was fast enough!?



Anyway, yes - for 30-50 miles a day just use the three pin it'll do over 100 miles in a night easy. If you want to save some ££ it's also worth asking your electricity supplier about cheap overnight tariffs.

Lots of people assume they'll need a dedicated charger when very few of them do the mileage that would require it if they have access to a 3-pin socket.

[essayer]

They are a supply - a big relay and a bit of electronics inside to tell the car when to take power and how much. Some have telemetry inside and some have intelligent ways to handle Earth/neutral faults. IMO, they are ridiculously overpriced for what they do.

We’re currently charging two ev’s off a single 13A supply and it’s a bit fiddly but no problem for our daily mileage (about 40 miles per day)

[SWoll]

audi321 said:

Well I am confused as after watching that YouTube video above it implies that these wall chargers aren’t actually chargers but just a supply. The car has the charger onboard?

I’m confused.com so will just stick with the 3 pin for now

They are just a supply, a dedicated unit will just be able to provide more power than a 3-pin and charge the car quicker.

For a 500e a 3-pin supply will provide enough power to charge at a rate of 10 miles of range added per hour. A 7kW dedicated unit will provide enough power to charge at a rate of 31 miles of range added per hour. The onboard charger takes that supply and charges the battery.

[TheDeuce]

essayer said:

They are a supply - a big relay and a bit of electronics inside to tell the car when to take power and how much. Some have telemetry inside and some have intelligent ways to handle Earth/neutral faults. IMO, they are ridiculously overpriced for what they do.

We’re currently charging two ev’s off a single 13A supply and it’s a bit fiddly but no problem for our daily mileage (about 40 miles per day)

It's a contactor, not a relay.

And the 13a on cable chargers you use are similarly priced to the 7kw charging points if you ignore installation costs. They 'do' the same as the higher capacity wall chargers in terms of complexity and power management and cost about the same as result.

I'm guessing you never considered the cost as the 13a on cable chargers came with the cars..?

[TheDeuce]

audi321 said:

Well I am confused as after watching that YouTube video above it implies that these wall chargers aren’t actually chargers but just a supply. The car has the charger onboard?

I’m confused.com so will just stick with the 3 pin for now

In fairness... before I found myself considering an EV, I had assumed they just needed a basic power cord, the fatter the cable and beefier the supply the better - and the car can take what it needs. I hadn't understood they need to 'talk' to the supply point to instigate any charging at all, or that they had on board chargers with their own limitations.

But as others have said, for almost all drivers daily needs, the three pin is easily sufficient. If you can install a 7kw I would advise you do as it is quicker if you need it, and also is an increasingly attractive addition to a house as and when you sell.