Racing Green Ash Vale Hampshire
Discussion
Well popped into Racing Green today and was very impressed with the set up. Met John(ex-Jaguar and ex Mole Valley Sales)and he spent the time giving us an extensive tour of the garage,wow, the competition had better watch out. If the dreams materialise, then I can see that Racing Green will become one (if not THE)biggest TVR dealer in the country. They are now officially a TVR main dealer, and with the people who are going to be working for him,(ex TVR) means it will not take much for owners to be persuaded to use them. I would encourage anyone to pop in and say hello as the welcome will be warm. 
Ted, competition can be good, sharpening peoples pencils, but so close together surely punters (and prospective punters) will just play one off against the other, with potentially one of the businesses being driven out of the TVR game because the margins are just too low. So we could lose a dealer with a TVR track record to one with no TVR track record.
Hawthorns have consistently supported the TVR marque since acquiring the dealership from SHG, including running a large Tuscan team. (I am not connected with Hawthorns other than as a happy customer.) So why appoint another dealer on their doorstep?
Also note I have nothing against Racing Green, I have never had any dealings with them so I will not comment on their organisation.
(Unless Hawthorns are about to acquire Racing Green or vice-versa? - is their a sub-plot we don't know about?)
davidy
Hawthorns have consistently supported the TVR marque since acquiring the dealership from SHG, including running a large Tuscan team. (I am not connected with Hawthorns other than as a happy customer.) So why appoint another dealer on their doorstep?
Also note I have nothing against Racing Green, I have never had any dealings with them so I will not comment on their organisation.
(Unless Hawthorns are about to acquire Racing Green or vice-versa? - is their a sub-plot we don't know about?)
davidy
We're assuming that there's a finite market for the cars which they'll have to share. With increased competition, harder marketing etc, we may see more people getting into TVRs and both organisations benefitting.
Heard a whiff today that Kings and Clarks are no longer main dealers. Not confirmed that yet.
Heard a whiff today that Kings and Clarks are no longer main dealers. Not confirmed that yet.
HAWTHORNS TVR said: Getting more and more interesting by the day!!!! but must agree with one of the postings; this move will not result in more overall new TVR sales, which is the official reason for the appointment. After many years of experience in the motor industry, the last six with TVR, we know why sales have dropped by 75% from the 2000 units a year hayday, and TVR's recent action has proved beyond any lingering doubt that they, even now with production and demand at the lowest level for God know's how many years, still don't get it! In the last week, almost every dealer in the network has contacted us with messages of support and total suprise at TVR's actions, but we know that in real terms most are calling for their own benefit, quite rightly, as they are working on the "there for the grace of God go I" and "if they can do it to you after all your input, what chance for the rest of us" principle. We are not ungrateful for this unexpected response, but neither are we naive enough not to be insensitive to the real reasons. When one looks at what appears to have happened here, with the appointment of a new dealer so close to an established one, and once you remove all the logical reasons for the given course of action, if any, then whatever you are left with, no matter how strange, must be the answer. Someone is getting shafted here, but we don't know who, not just yet anyway, but we know who's doing the shafting!!!! Or do we????? Time will tell, meanwhile we continue our passionate affair with TVR and their amazing cars because making money and being a TVR main dealer doesn't necessarily go hand in hand. If money is your objective, become a Porsche dealer!! Anyway enough of all this stuff, much more importantly, the 2003 racing season is only 5 months, 3 weeks, 4 days, 6 hours and 59 minutes away, approx.......Can't wait.
speaking from experience i have found Hawthornes particularly unhelpful so good luck to the competition.
twice i have been in to look at a car, neither time has a salesman been willing to take me out for a test drive, on both times they have made insulting offers for part ex TVRs
suppose they dont realise I have bought 4 TVR's, 2 Porsche, and a Ferrari in the last 4yrs... guess living about 20 miles away means i am not on their patch??
this is not being critical, but surely when somebody is interested in a silver corvette and has a mint low mileage cerb...it would be worth somebody taking a look at the car and offering within 10k of the asking price of the nigh on identical car sat on your own forecourt..??
Bennno
twice i have been in to look at a car, neither time has a salesman been willing to take me out for a test drive, on both times they have made insulting offers for part ex TVRs
suppose they dont realise I have bought 4 TVR's, 2 Porsche, and a Ferrari in the last 4yrs... guess living about 20 miles away means i am not on their patch??
this is not being critical, but surely when somebody is interested in a silver corvette and has a mint low mileage cerb...it would be worth somebody taking a look at the car and offering within 10k of the asking price of the nigh on identical car sat on your own forecourt..??
Bennno
Ben's right here. I wouldn't bet against a similar thing happening to TMS if they are not careful.
There are several dealers out there who don't encourage new custom by offering derisory trade ins on TVR's. I could name several dealers here but most of them are the same. It's bloody annoying when you are offered a shit price on your pride and joy and then see it on their forecourt for more than £5,000 in excess of what they gave you for it. Even more annoying when you realise that they have done the same thing with the one you have traded it in for. Why do these greedy b*****s have to make such a huge profit on their sales??
I'll give you an example. TVR dealer offered me £8K for my Griffith against a £27K Cerb last year. They would have put my Griff on the forecourt for £14995 and got a minimum of £12995 for it. They eventually (because I told them to stuff the deal) got £23K for the Cerb and I would imagine they still made a profit on it. This means that if I had done the deal they would have made at least £9,000 on the package clear profit.
And that in a nutshell is why I don't give a flying f**k if any of them go bust. What goes around comes around and greed always results in disaster. A new dealer in the area can only be good for the customer. And on this site that's all we should be bothered about...The customer.
There are several dealers out there who don't encourage new custom by offering derisory trade ins on TVR's. I could name several dealers here but most of them are the same. It's bloody annoying when you are offered a shit price on your pride and joy and then see it on their forecourt for more than £5,000 in excess of what they gave you for it. Even more annoying when you realise that they have done the same thing with the one you have traded it in for. Why do these greedy b*****s have to make such a huge profit on their sales??
I'll give you an example. TVR dealer offered me £8K for my Griffith against a £27K Cerb last year. They would have put my Griff on the forecourt for £14995 and got a minimum of £12995 for it. They eventually (because I told them to stuff the deal) got £23K for the Cerb and I would imagine they still made a profit on it. This means that if I had done the deal they would have made at least £9,000 on the package clear profit.
And that in a nutshell is why I don't give a flying f**k if any of them go bust. What goes around comes around and greed always results in disaster. A new dealer in the area can only be good for the customer. And on this site that's all we should be bothered about...The customer.
OK then lets talk about trade-ins
1) Most dealers do not want to hold a lot of stock, hence a lot of their machinery on the forecourt could be on SOR, this means that when you offer a trade-in against one of these vehicles you are putting the dealer into a cash negative situation, ie he might make a few K on the sale but he's just landed himself with spending more money on your PX.
2) Many dealers (if not all) only hold a limited number of stock of a particular vehicle (TVRs are not exactly known for rushing off the forecourt in todays oversupplied market), therefore for instance if he already has 3 Cerberas, he may offer buttons for another one because they just don't shift (in terms of selling) very well.
3) Many dealers are not interested in selling old cars, ones that are difficult to put warranty on, high mileage may give more problems etc, therefore agin the prices offered for these vehicles is low, as all the dealer will do is trade them off with an independent as you sign the cheque for your new vehicle. (This does not just apply to TVRs, try trading in a 5 year old Audi with a franchised delear)
4) Everyone is in this game to make money, why even the factory do (I hadn't noticed them being a registered charity!), now if new car sales are down then money has to be made on the second hand sales, therefore the margin per car has to go up (or significantly more cars sold) to pay for the overheads of the business. Now no-one on this list could tell me that if they thought they could make a few extra K on a deal, then they wouldn't do it.
5) Most car owners (if not virtually all) have an inflated value of what their car is worth. IT IS ONLY WORTH WHAT SOMEONE IS PREPARED TO PAY FOR IT. (Oh and when you tade it in what warranty did you offer to the delear, will you come round and fix everything that goes wrong in the first six months, will you ring up the delear and make sure everythings ok after a month, will you prepare the car to a high standard before selling it to the dealer and service it, etc)
6) Now taking Flasher's point to extreme, supposing all the dealers went bust, where would that leave you, back to Blackpool for sales/servicing, no I don't think so, TVR needs the support of a stable dealer network.
You could of course cynically say that TVR are increasing its sales with every new dealer appointed as they have to buy a certain amount of demo stock.
I don't think that TVR dealers are different from any other motor trader, they are all there to make money whether its a Ford or Ferrari.
davidy
1) Most dealers do not want to hold a lot of stock, hence a lot of their machinery on the forecourt could be on SOR, this means that when you offer a trade-in against one of these vehicles you are putting the dealer into a cash negative situation, ie he might make a few K on the sale but he's just landed himself with spending more money on your PX.
2) Many dealers (if not all) only hold a limited number of stock of a particular vehicle (TVRs are not exactly known for rushing off the forecourt in todays oversupplied market), therefore for instance if he already has 3 Cerberas, he may offer buttons for another one because they just don't shift (in terms of selling) very well.
3) Many dealers are not interested in selling old cars, ones that are difficult to put warranty on, high mileage may give more problems etc, therefore agin the prices offered for these vehicles is low, as all the dealer will do is trade them off with an independent as you sign the cheque for your new vehicle. (This does not just apply to TVRs, try trading in a 5 year old Audi with a franchised delear)
4) Everyone is in this game to make money, why even the factory do (I hadn't noticed them being a registered charity!), now if new car sales are down then money has to be made on the second hand sales, therefore the margin per car has to go up (or significantly more cars sold) to pay for the overheads of the business. Now no-one on this list could tell me that if they thought they could make a few extra K on a deal, then they wouldn't do it.
5) Most car owners (if not virtually all) have an inflated value of what their car is worth. IT IS ONLY WORTH WHAT SOMEONE IS PREPARED TO PAY FOR IT. (Oh and when you tade it in what warranty did you offer to the delear, will you come round and fix everything that goes wrong in the first six months, will you ring up the delear and make sure everythings ok after a month, will you prepare the car to a high standard before selling it to the dealer and service it, etc)
6) Now taking Flasher's point to extreme, supposing all the dealers went bust, where would that leave you, back to Blackpool for sales/servicing, no I don't think so, TVR needs the support of a stable dealer network.
You could of course cynically say that TVR are increasing its sales with every new dealer appointed as they have to buy a certain amount of demo stock.
I don't think that TVR dealers are different from any other motor trader, they are all there to make money whether its a Ford or Ferrari.
davidy
Sorry David but almost every point you make there is complete bollocks.
1.When I offered my Griff in PX for the Cerb the dealer in question didn't have a single Griff for sale so the argument of "flooding" his forecourt with used Griffs doesn't stand up at all.
2. My Griff was a 92 pre-cat with less than 50,000 miles on the clock. full TVR history and had just had a service, steering rack, 4 new tyres and a brand new stainless exhaust. I sold it privatley in two days to the first guy to see it. I got £12500 for it not the insulting £8K offered. Strange how two other dealers valued it at £11,500 and £12,000 isn't it?? Having to put a warranty on it would have cost less than a grand. They would have got rid of it in days if they put it up for £12,995. making at least £3k from the deal.If dealers don't want trade ins then how on earth are any of us going to finance our new TVR?
3.Nobody is saying that dealers are not allowed to make money. That is just ridiculous, and I am quite happy for them to make a profit. They don't however, have to make £10,000 on each deal. We are getting ripped off in this country so don't try to deny that.
4. Of course we want TVR to make a profit, otherwise they won't exist. What I am pointing out is the greed the dealers then add on to that when selling used cars and giving insulting trade in values.
5. Fair point, we all want more for our cars when we trade them in. My point is that we don't get offered a realistic price on them in the first place, we have to argue for hours with them. I can give you many examples of people who have been given a trade in price and then gone past the dealer a week or so later to see their car up for sale at £5000 over what they got for it. Plain and simple that is greed. It hardly inspires you to do business with them again does it?
6. I don't want all the dealers to go bust. Just the shyster ones who look down their nose at you when you first walk in and then try rip you off.
I don't understand why you are defending dealers like this. They are answerable to their customers, and after owning four TVR's I would count myself as a TVR customer entitled to comment on the merits and failings of their dealers. I shopped around almost every TVR dealer in the country when buying my old Cerbera and was quite shocked by how Arthur Daley like some of them are. A lot of us are fed up with their attitude and greed. If some of them hit the wall then they probably deserve it.
>> Edited by flasher on Saturday 19th October 13:25
1.When I offered my Griff in PX for the Cerb the dealer in question didn't have a single Griff for sale so the argument of "flooding" his forecourt with used Griffs doesn't stand up at all.
2. My Griff was a 92 pre-cat with less than 50,000 miles on the clock. full TVR history and had just had a service, steering rack, 4 new tyres and a brand new stainless exhaust. I sold it privatley in two days to the first guy to see it. I got £12500 for it not the insulting £8K offered. Strange how two other dealers valued it at £11,500 and £12,000 isn't it?? Having to put a warranty on it would have cost less than a grand. They would have got rid of it in days if they put it up for £12,995. making at least £3k from the deal.If dealers don't want trade ins then how on earth are any of us going to finance our new TVR?
3.Nobody is saying that dealers are not allowed to make money. That is just ridiculous, and I am quite happy for them to make a profit. They don't however, have to make £10,000 on each deal. We are getting ripped off in this country so don't try to deny that.
4. Of course we want TVR to make a profit, otherwise they won't exist. What I am pointing out is the greed the dealers then add on to that when selling used cars and giving insulting trade in values.
5. Fair point, we all want more for our cars when we trade them in. My point is that we don't get offered a realistic price on them in the first place, we have to argue for hours with them. I can give you many examples of people who have been given a trade in price and then gone past the dealer a week or so later to see their car up for sale at £5000 over what they got for it. Plain and simple that is greed. It hardly inspires you to do business with them again does it?
6. I don't want all the dealers to go bust. Just the shyster ones who look down their nose at you when you first walk in and then try rip you off.
I don't understand why you are defending dealers like this. They are answerable to their customers, and after owning four TVR's I would count myself as a TVR customer entitled to comment on the merits and failings of their dealers. I shopped around almost every TVR dealer in the country when buying my old Cerbera and was quite shocked by how Arthur Daley like some of them are. A lot of us are fed up with their attitude and greed. If some of them hit the wall then they probably deserve it.
>> Edited by flasher on Saturday 19th October 13:25
Why do people take it so personally when crap trade in prices are offered? It's business. If a crap price is offered then (for whatever reason) they don't want your car unless they can get a real bargain.
Granted dealers should probably explain why the offer is so low, but business is business.
If you are in business and you quote for a job that you don't want to do then you put in an unrealistically high tender so that if you do get it, it's worth your while.
Flasher, get over it mate. You've been banging on about this story for ages now. You chose not to do business with them. It was their missed opportunity, not yours. Why are you angry?
Granted dealers should probably explain why the offer is so low, but business is business.
If you are in business and you quote for a job that you don't want to do then you put in an unrealistically high tender so that if you do get it, it's worth your while.
Flasher, get over it mate. You've been banging on about this story for ages now. You chose not to do business with them. It was their missed opportunity, not yours. Why are you angry?
davidy
Good patronising stuff...
Of course dealers need to make money, but if they have a used car on the forecourt with 7K margin in it and then offer 8-10k under the retail price for your part ex...who is being robbed???
Part of the reason owners think the cars are worth more than they are is that many dealers are overcharging by so much that you dont realise the true value of cars. Then when you come to sell the car you spent 30k on and similar is on the forecourt for 25k but you only get offered 19k or such like, its not suprising people get p'd off.
Not listing cars in the glasses guide does not help, nor does the mechanical reliability which scares other dealers from touching the cars and private punters in to paying the over inflated prices for the dealer backup.
With the exception of the now demised Broughtons whom offered excellent service, or Team Central (bargain cars) some of the other dealers are making a wedge.
Bennno
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