30th Birthday European Road Trip
Discussion
Hoping anyone could offer some advice/experience and help a little with this. Me and my partner are looking to go on a 10 day road trip next summer for my 30th birthday.
Unfortunately, it has to be during end of May or early July as she is a school teacher.
So far I have put together a list of places/roads that we'd like to visit but would welcome any advice from those that have travelled these or anywhere else that they would suggest visiting. The plan is to spend 10 days travelling from Chester and back.
France
Lake Annecy
Route Napoleon
Mount Vonteux
Viaduc de Millau Bridge
Switzerland
Zurich
Geneva
Susten Pass
Grinsel Pass
San Bernadino Pass
Gotthard Pass
Furka Pass
Italy
Foscagno Pass
Germany
Baden-Baden
Black Forest
Affalterbach
Luxemborg
Vianden Castle
Austria
Fuscher Lacke
Grossglockner High Alpine Road
Obviously there are a lot of places/roads and only 10 days and we are more than happy to delay visiting these for another trip.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Unfortunately, it has to be during end of May or early July as she is a school teacher.
So far I have put together a list of places/roads that we'd like to visit but would welcome any advice from those that have travelled these or anywhere else that they would suggest visiting. The plan is to spend 10 days travelling from Chester and back.
France
Lake Annecy
Route Napoleon
Mount Vonteux
Viaduc de Millau Bridge
Switzerland
Zurich
Geneva
Susten Pass
Grinsel Pass
San Bernadino Pass
Gotthard Pass
Furka Pass
Italy
Foscagno Pass
Germany
Baden-Baden
Black Forest
Affalterbach
Luxemborg
Vianden Castle
Austria
Fuscher Lacke
Grossglockner High Alpine Road
Obviously there are a lot of places/roads and only 10 days and we are more than happy to delay visiting these for another trip.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Hi there, for France, if you already have the route de Napoleon in mind then include from Menton up to the cole du Turini to the old Maginot line forts at the top. Just be careful if your car does not have good ground clearance (the road gets heavily rutted in Winter snow still up ther into early May) on the top loop around the forts. You can park just before the Y junction and walk the loop, its quite high and about 11Km around so some level of fitness is required or take a car with good ground clearance.
Thats a lot!
I have done a few trips, personally I don't find driving bad abroad, and find it less stressful so happy to do a bit more distance.
This year in 4 days we are driving to munich, going to bmw museum and dachau concentration camp, plus driving a bit of the german alpine route and then home.
Our driving is 8 hours first day (from home (london) to B&B karlrushe), 2nd day 4 hours driving (Karlrushe to munich), 3rd day 7 hours driving (Munich to kaiselautern via alpine route), 4th day 8 hours driving back home (Kaiserslautern to london).
As a rough guide autobahn sounds great, but hit these in rush hour and its like the m25 tbh especially round cities like stuttgart etc. 3 years ago we had a accident on the autobahn (not us) and we were stuck for 3 hours in 34c heat. So if doing serious amount of driving, buy a pack of water and have it in the car, this was a god send for us, and gave a few bottles to other drivers around us who had nothing.
Looking at the things you want to do, I would say you will be hard pressed to do all that in 10 days and won't enjoy it.
Before we have done a few alpine routes, this was the main part of our holiday, it can be very slow depending on traffic, time of day etc. Also will need various emission stickers etc (I have quite a collection now on my car window!).
Getting down to the south of france will take you two days tbh from chester, route napoleon can be slow and took us 4 hours when we did it, had one night in monaco, then carried on to alpine passes then home on that trip (through luxembourg for cheap fuel). I guess it depends what car you are driving as to if you can do the distances you want to do. For me this isn't a issue in the golf r I have, but wouldn't want to do it in a lotus for example (others may disagree).
I have done a few trips, personally I don't find driving bad abroad, and find it less stressful so happy to do a bit more distance.
This year in 4 days we are driving to munich, going to bmw museum and dachau concentration camp, plus driving a bit of the german alpine route and then home.
Our driving is 8 hours first day (from home (london) to B&B karlrushe), 2nd day 4 hours driving (Karlrushe to munich), 3rd day 7 hours driving (Munich to kaiselautern via alpine route), 4th day 8 hours driving back home (Kaiserslautern to london).
As a rough guide autobahn sounds great, but hit these in rush hour and its like the m25 tbh especially round cities like stuttgart etc. 3 years ago we had a accident on the autobahn (not us) and we were stuck for 3 hours in 34c heat. So if doing serious amount of driving, buy a pack of water and have it in the car, this was a god send for us, and gave a few bottles to other drivers around us who had nothing.
Looking at the things you want to do, I would say you will be hard pressed to do all that in 10 days and won't enjoy it.
Before we have done a few alpine routes, this was the main part of our holiday, it can be very slow depending on traffic, time of day etc. Also will need various emission stickers etc (I have quite a collection now on my car window!).
Getting down to the south of france will take you two days tbh from chester, route napoleon can be slow and took us 4 hours when we did it, had one night in monaco, then carried on to alpine passes then home on that trip (through luxembourg for cheap fuel). I guess it depends what car you are driving as to if you can do the distances you want to do. For me this isn't a issue in the golf r I have, but wouldn't want to do it in a lotus for example (others may disagree).
So many variables to consider - and a fair bit of diversity of location.
Is it about the driving, or is it about the places?
In my experience, if you only stay one night in a place then you don't really see much of it - and you don't really have a chance to relax the next morning as you need to check out by 10:30 / 11 / 11:30 - noon if you're lucky. If all you want to do is drive, then cram in as many of the places you've listed as possible. Otherwise pick 6 or 7 of them and plan a few 2 night stays.
I wouldn't bother with GrossGlockner - I did it a couple of years ago - it was ok, but nothing to write home about.
Millau is great, and well worth seeing, particularly from underneath. But it's nowhere near any of the other places on your list.
Despite the above statement regarding Millau, personally I'm not a massive fan of France. So my go to route in future will be Harwich -> Hook of Holland overnight ferry. From Chester you should be able to make the ferry leaving home around 5:30pm - that dumps you in Europe at 8am and effectively gives you an extra day. You can then do the German parts of your trip, before then heading in to France.
Is it about the driving, or is it about the places?
In my experience, if you only stay one night in a place then you don't really see much of it - and you don't really have a chance to relax the next morning as you need to check out by 10:30 / 11 / 11:30 - noon if you're lucky. If all you want to do is drive, then cram in as many of the places you've listed as possible. Otherwise pick 6 or 7 of them and plan a few 2 night stays.
I wouldn't bother with GrossGlockner - I did it a couple of years ago - it was ok, but nothing to write home about.
Millau is great, and well worth seeing, particularly from underneath. But it's nowhere near any of the other places on your list.
Despite the above statement regarding Millau, personally I'm not a massive fan of France. So my go to route in future will be Harwich -> Hook of Holland overnight ferry. From Chester you should be able to make the ferry leaving home around 5:30pm - that dumps you in Europe at 8am and effectively gives you an extra day. You can then do the German parts of your trip, before then heading in to France.
rolster said:
Hi there, for France, if you already have the route de Napoleon in mind then include from Menton up to the cole du Turini to the old Maginot line forts at the top. Just be careful if your car does not have good ground clearance (the road gets heavily rutted in Winter snow still up ther into early May) on the top loop around the forts. You can park just before the Y junction and walk the loop, its quite high and about 11Km around so some level of fitness is required or take a car with good ground clearance.
Thankyou. We are both very fit and active so won't struggle with a big walk, thanks for your suggestion. gazza5 said:
Thats a lot!
I have done a few trips, personally I don't find driving bad abroad, and find it less stressful so happy to do a bit more distance.
This year in 4 days we are driving to munich, going to bmw museum and dachau concentration camp, plus driving a bit of the german alpine route and then home.
Our driving is 8 hours first day (from home (london) to B&B karlrushe), 2nd day 4 hours driving (Karlrushe to munich), 3rd day 7 hours driving (Munich to kaiselautern via alpine route), 4th day 8 hours driving back home (Kaiserslautern to london).
As a rough guide autobahn sounds great, but hit these in rush hour and its like the m25 tbh especially round cities like stuttgart etc. 3 years ago we had a accident on the autobahn (not us) and we were stuck for 3 hours in 34c heat. So if doing serious amount of driving, buy a pack of water and have it in the car, this was a god send for us, and gave a few bottles to other drivers around us who had nothing.
Looking at the things you want to do, I would say you will be hard pressed to do all that in 10 days and won't enjoy it.
Before we have done a few alpine routes, this was the main part of our holiday, it can be very slow depending on traffic, time of day etc. Also will need various emission stickers etc (I have quite a collection now on my car window!).
Getting down to the south of france will take you two days tbh from chester, route napoleon can be slow and took us 4 hours when we did it, had one night in monaco, then carried on to alpine passes then home on that trip (through luxembourg for cheap fuel). I guess it depends what car you are driving as to if you can do the distances you want to do. For me this isn't a issue in the golf r I have, but wouldn't want to do it in a lotus for example (others may disagree).
Thankyou for your input, much appreciated. I have done a few trips, personally I don't find driving bad abroad, and find it less stressful so happy to do a bit more distance.
This year in 4 days we are driving to munich, going to bmw museum and dachau concentration camp, plus driving a bit of the german alpine route and then home.
Our driving is 8 hours first day (from home (london) to B&B karlrushe), 2nd day 4 hours driving (Karlrushe to munich), 3rd day 7 hours driving (Munich to kaiselautern via alpine route), 4th day 8 hours driving back home (Kaiserslautern to london).
As a rough guide autobahn sounds great, but hit these in rush hour and its like the m25 tbh especially round cities like stuttgart etc. 3 years ago we had a accident on the autobahn (not us) and we were stuck for 3 hours in 34c heat. So if doing serious amount of driving, buy a pack of water and have it in the car, this was a god send for us, and gave a few bottles to other drivers around us who had nothing.
Looking at the things you want to do, I would say you will be hard pressed to do all that in 10 days and won't enjoy it.
Before we have done a few alpine routes, this was the main part of our holiday, it can be very slow depending on traffic, time of day etc. Also will need various emission stickers etc (I have quite a collection now on my car window!).
Getting down to the south of france will take you two days tbh from chester, route napoleon can be slow and took us 4 hours when we did it, had one night in monaco, then carried on to alpine passes then home on that trip (through luxembourg for cheap fuel). I guess it depends what car you are driving as to if you can do the distances you want to do. For me this isn't a issue in the golf r I have, but wouldn't want to do it in a lotus for example (others may disagree).
I know it's a lot, as this is my first road trip abroad, I've just come up with a collection of places that I'd like to visit/roads to drive and I'm trying to whittle it down to a realistic 10 days.
I have no issues with driving long distances, I did alot of customer visits pre-Covid. Car will be a fast estate of sorts, currently looking like it will be a C63.
omniflow said:
So many variables to consider - and a fair bit of diversity of location.
Is it about the driving, or is it about the places?
In my experience, if you only stay one night in a place then you don't really see much of it - and you don't really have a chance to relax the next morning as you need to check out by 10:30 / 11 / 11:30 - noon if you're lucky. If all you want to do is drive, then cram in as many of the places you've listed as possible. Otherwise pick 6 or 7 of them and plan a few 2 night stays.
I wouldn't bother with GrossGlockner - I did it a couple of years ago - it was ok, but nothing to write home about.
Millau is great, and well worth seeing, particularly from underneath. But it's nowhere near any of the other places on your list.
Despite the above statement regarding Millau, personally I'm not a massive fan of France. So my go to route in future will be Harwich -> Hook of Holland overnight ferry. From Chester you should be able to make the ferry leaving home around 5:30pm - that dumps you in Europe at 8am and effectively gives you an extra day. You can then do the German parts of your trip, before then heading in to France.
The trip for me is about the driving and the views, it has to be about the places for my partner to agree to it....Is it about the driving, or is it about the places?
In my experience, if you only stay one night in a place then you don't really see much of it - and you don't really have a chance to relax the next morning as you need to check out by 10:30 / 11 / 11:30 - noon if you're lucky. If all you want to do is drive, then cram in as many of the places you've listed as possible. Otherwise pick 6 or 7 of them and plan a few 2 night stays.
I wouldn't bother with GrossGlockner - I did it a couple of years ago - it was ok, but nothing to write home about.
Millau is great, and well worth seeing, particularly from underneath. But it's nowhere near any of the other places on your list.
Despite the above statement regarding Millau, personally I'm not a massive fan of France. So my go to route in future will be Harwich -> Hook of Holland overnight ferry. From Chester you should be able to make the ferry leaving home around 5:30pm - that dumps you in Europe at 8am and effectively gives you an extra day. You can then do the German parts of your trip, before then heading in to France.
My current plan is just 1 night per place, but I do understand that this requires alot of driving and not much relaxing.
Thanks for the heads up about GrossGlockner.
I can skip Millau as I've already seen it a few times, albeit never driven there myself. I did consider the Dutch route, instead of France as we plan to do a seperate France trip in the near future.
I'd probably agree 10 days would be a push for the full agenda, as Geneva/Munich have both been the best part of two days when I've driven.
Should your route take you south through France to Geneva, then the N5 through Les Rousses and onto the Rte de Nyon is a good diversion from the Autoroute, and you have the view over Lake Geneva on the descent.
If you do drive the Foscagno Pass, plan to fill the car somewhere around Livigno, as it's tax-free. Also consider using the Fluela Pass from Davos, which I seem to remember Clarkson-era Top Gear named their favourite driving road - you may end up using it if heading to the Foscagno Pass through the Mautstelle Munt La Schera Tunnel.
Should your route take you south through France to Geneva, then the N5 through Les Rousses and onto the Rte de Nyon is a good diversion from the Autoroute, and you have the view over Lake Geneva on the descent.
If you do drive the Foscagno Pass, plan to fill the car somewhere around Livigno, as it's tax-free. Also consider using the Fluela Pass from Davos, which I seem to remember Clarkson-era Top Gear named their favourite driving road - you may end up using it if heading to the Foscagno Pass through the Mautstelle Munt La Schera Tunnel.
I’ll just comment on the French bits:-
Lac Annecy - Annecy and the lake is beautiful. We stayed there for 4 nights and really enjoyed it. Make sure you do a boat trip on the lake - the water is crystal clear. Hunt out Beer O’Clock which is a bar in the centre where you preload a card & pour your own beer - great fun. We actually are going back for 6 nights end June/early July.
Route Napoleon (RN) - we did this after Annecy & stopped for a couple of nights in Gap (which is about halfway) - weren’t that impressed with Gap to be honest. The Route Napoleon is worth doing though although it’s not like the Swiss mountain passes.
The Southern end of RN finishes in Grasse - we stayed in Mougins just outside of Cannes - the Cote D’Azur is a bit manic from a driving perspective with mopeds & bikes regularly cutting you up. From there we drove along the coast to Genova (6 weeks before the viaduct collapsed!) then up through Italy past Milan into Switzerland before stopping in Alsace.
This year we’re doing Alsace (5 nights), Andermatt, Switzerland (3 nights to do the Swiss mountain passes), Annecy then 3 nights in Epernay before heading back for the Amsterdam/Newcastle ferry. This trip was cancelled twice due to COVID so is a belated 60th birthday present.
Millau Viaduct - very impressive & the services there are lovely (much much nicer than the UK services) - we did that on a separate trip taking in the Dordogne and Provence.
10 nights is a bit ambitious to do everything - much better to stay at least 2 nights in different places and you actually see where you are staying - just my opinion though.
Lac Annecy - Annecy and the lake is beautiful. We stayed there for 4 nights and really enjoyed it. Make sure you do a boat trip on the lake - the water is crystal clear. Hunt out Beer O’Clock which is a bar in the centre where you preload a card & pour your own beer - great fun. We actually are going back for 6 nights end June/early July.
Route Napoleon (RN) - we did this after Annecy & stopped for a couple of nights in Gap (which is about halfway) - weren’t that impressed with Gap to be honest. The Route Napoleon is worth doing though although it’s not like the Swiss mountain passes.
The Southern end of RN finishes in Grasse - we stayed in Mougins just outside of Cannes - the Cote D’Azur is a bit manic from a driving perspective with mopeds & bikes regularly cutting you up. From there we drove along the coast to Genova (6 weeks before the viaduct collapsed!) then up through Italy past Milan into Switzerland before stopping in Alsace.
This year we’re doing Alsace (5 nights), Andermatt, Switzerland (3 nights to do the Swiss mountain passes), Annecy then 3 nights in Epernay before heading back for the Amsterdam/Newcastle ferry. This trip was cancelled twice due to COVID so is a belated 60th birthday present.
Millau Viaduct - very impressive & the services there are lovely (much much nicer than the UK services) - we did that on a separate trip taking in the Dordogne and Provence.
10 nights is a bit ambitious to do everything - much better to stay at least 2 nights in different places and you actually see where you are staying - just my opinion though.
For Switzerland:
- Don't speed. Ever.
- The mountain roads into a side valley that doesn't go anywhere are the best bet for a blast... BUT do a sighting run first and go slowly through villages. They will report you.
- Grimentz is an amazing destination (pretty). Zermatt is more touristy but has some great lifts to some amazing views
- After a long day, end your drive with a dip in one of the thermal baths in the Valais (e.g. Saillon or Ovronnaz) - they are amazing
I’d cut that lot to a 1/3. Enjoy it. Don’t race it.
We’re off to Austria next week. 1 night stay over going down and 2 back. 8 nights there about 1/2 hour from the Grossglockner and enjoying the sites around there and other parts of Austria on day trips. Relaxio.
I disagree above about the Grossglockner. We’ve been 6 times and love it.
We’re off to Austria next week. 1 night stay over going down and 2 back. 8 nights there about 1/2 hour from the Grossglockner and enjoying the sites around there and other parts of Austria on day trips. Relaxio.
I disagree above about the Grossglockner. We’ve been 6 times and love it.
Edited by fatboy b on Thursday 26th May 20:57
vaud said:
For Switzerland:
I agree, the Swiss are very trigger happy when it comes to reporting anything, no matter how small.- Don't speed. Ever.
- The mountain roads into a side valley that doesn't go anywhere are the best bet for a blast... BUT do a sighting run first and go slowly through villages. They will report you.
- Grimentz is an amazing destination (pretty). Zermatt is more touristy but has some great lifts to some amazing views
- After a long day, end your drive with a dip in one of the thermal baths in the Valais (e.g. Saillon or Ovronnaz) - they are amazing
fatboy b said:
I’d cut that lot to a 1/3. Enjoy it. Don’t race it.
We’re off to Austria next week. 1 night stay over going down and 2 back. 8 nights there about 1/2 hour from the Grossglockner and enjoying the sites around there and other parts of Austria on day trips. Relaxio.
I disagree above about the Grossglockner. We’ve been 6 times and love it.
+1 on the Grossglockner, it's one of my all time greats (back again in Sept), and done many of those listed by OP. Tip is to get there early before the 'tourists', coaches and cyclists appear.We’re off to Austria next week. 1 night stay over going down and 2 back. 8 nights there about 1/2 hour from the Grossglockner and enjoying the sites around there and other parts of Austria on day trips. Relaxio.
I disagree above about the Grossglockner. We’ve been 6 times and love it.
Edited by fatboy b on Thursday 26th May 20:57
If doing the Andermatt loop (highly recommended), then include the Nufenen Pass nearby. It's a joy (best east to west imo), and the quietest of the lot.
To the OP, be aware that in May passes could still affected by closures due to snow.
Percy. said:
Thankyou for your input, much appreciated.
I know it's a lot, as this is my first road trip abroad, I've just come up with a collection of places that I'd like to visit/roads to drive and I'm trying to whittle it down to a realistic 10 days.
I have no issues with driving long distances, I did alot of customer visits pre-Covid. Car will be a fast estate of sorts, currently looking like it will be a C63.
Lovely car to do it in - very jealous - I only have a lowly golf r fart box. But for journeys like this its great as can get 400 miles easy out of a tank My best was just under 500 miles brimmed to empty.I know it's a lot, as this is my first road trip abroad, I've just come up with a collection of places that I'd like to visit/roads to drive and I'm trying to whittle it down to a realistic 10 days.
I have no issues with driving long distances, I did alot of customer visits pre-Covid. Car will be a fast estate of sorts, currently looking like it will be a C63.
I absolutly agree that road trips are the best way to explore many of the places on your list. For example I have a short trip booked with a mate, from london it makes it a bit easier and we are doing a lot of driving, but its as follows:
London to tunnel, breakfast, then on through luxembourg to pick up cheap fuel to Karlsruhe (stop over the night), following morning drive to dachau concentration camp (approx 3 hours), then visit bmw museum, then drive to hotel in munich and park up explore a bit. Next day drive from munich to Flintsbach where we pick up the alpine route to Fussen then up to Kaiserslautern, stay one night then drive home picking up wine and beer.
Our longest day is on the way out - but the alpine route day could be the longest day depending on how many stops and how many dutch caravans we get stuck behind!
I know we are going over this rule a few days, but really more than 5 hours driving a day does start to get tiring. As ours is a short trip its not too bad, but you don't really want to do 8 hours a day driving for 10 days.
Another shout for the Harwich - Rotterdam ferry. Get on the ferry around 9pm, get off the ferry 7-8am next morning and within 90 minutes can be on German autobahn and make good progress South. Worth at least half a day IMO.
One thing to be aware of if driving some of the alpine passes is that it can take longer than expected just to get to them before the ‘fun’ driving even begins. You should factor that into your itinerary.
One thing to be aware of if driving some of the alpine passes is that it can take longer than expected just to get to them before the ‘fun’ driving even begins. You should factor that into your itinerary.
Thankyou everyone for your suggestions.
To give an update:
Car bought in July, a 3.0 V6T petrol Audi S4 Avant
We have also booked our ferry, the overnight Harwich to Rotterdam as suggested.
July 10th - July 20th
Destination and route list:
We are staying in
- Heidelberg
- Munich - for two nights
- St. Mortiz
- Andermatt
- Zurich - for two nights
- Baden Baden
- Brussells (before heading back to Rotterdam for the ferry on the 20th)
If anyone has any suggestions for the routes from St.Moritz to Andermatt and Andermatt to Zurich that would be appreciated.
To give an update:
Car bought in July, a 3.0 V6T petrol Audi S4 Avant
We have also booked our ferry, the overnight Harwich to Rotterdam as suggested.
July 10th - July 20th
Destination and route list:
We are staying in
- Heidelberg
- Munich - for two nights
- St. Mortiz
- Andermatt
- Zurich - for two nights
- Baden Baden
- Brussells (before heading back to Rotterdam for the ferry on the 20th)
If anyone has any suggestions for the routes from St.Moritz to Andermatt and Andermatt to Zurich that would be appreciated.
Lovely car - have looked at them to upgrade from my R - you will have fun on the autobahn as should be fairly effortless and a bit more quieter than my r up to the 120mph speeds.
Not sure if the netherlands still have the weird speed limit - slower during the day than at night I think if my memory is correct.
Will be interesting to hear about the Audi museum - not been yet myself.
Enjoy munich - we stayed in a premier inn not far from the centre, and did the tourst trap of the Hofbräuhaus München - I do not recommend the food but the beers good!
Should be a very good trip - and look forward to the write up.
Not sure if the netherlands still have the weird speed limit - slower during the day than at night I think if my memory is correct.
Will be interesting to hear about the Audi museum - not been yet myself.
Enjoy munich - we stayed in a premier inn not far from the centre, and did the tourst trap of the Hofbräuhaus München - I do not recommend the food but the beers good!
Should be a very good trip - and look forward to the write up.
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