Dipping my toes into EV's with a Renault Zoe
Discussion
My Mini JCW had been sitting in the garage and rarely goes out (its a second car in our two car household - where our "main" car is a Mercedes GLC).
Have been thinking about 'going' electric but really not ready for it to be our main car and didn't want to spend £40-50k on a second car. Spent a few weeks reading up / watching you tube vids and ultimately decided on a Renault Zoe (sold the JCW and the cash from that plus £2k for a 3 month old model).
The Zoe a 52kwh usable battery (pretty big for a small car) but more importantly its relatively light (for an EV) meaning so far we've been averaging 4.4 miles per Kwh. That tranlates to a real world range of c. 230 miles although of course we would never run down to zero. But realistically 180-190 before we start feeling uncomfortable (that's cross country - slightly less on the motorway).
Day to day running costs are about one third of running the GLC if we charge from home (which we do 90% of the time) which I calculated as follows:
The long term average fuel consultion on the GLC is about 40 mpg.
A gallon of fuel is 4.55 litres which at £1.85 per litres means 40 miles costs c. £8.40
The Zoe does 4.4 miles per Kwh
That means for 40 miles we need just over 9 kw.
We're currently paying 28 p per kw which equates to about £2.50 for the same 40 miles
But is the Zoe a nice car to drive?
It's alright. We're still in the novelty phase. The acceleration is very smooth and driving around town is so relaxing with the single linear gear and regen braking. But these are relatively heavy cars and there is considerable body roll around corners (but you get used to it). You also need to get used to driving at 65 on the motorway or the consumption starts to increase significantly. But that's also ok - I'm retired so what's the rush?
So ......so far so good. Thre GLC will likely need replacing in the next 18 months at which point we may do an about turn replacing that with full electric (id 5 looks nice) and going petrol on the second car... But lets see.
Have been thinking about 'going' electric but really not ready for it to be our main car and didn't want to spend £40-50k on a second car. Spent a few weeks reading up / watching you tube vids and ultimately decided on a Renault Zoe (sold the JCW and the cash from that plus £2k for a 3 month old model).
The Zoe a 52kwh usable battery (pretty big for a small car) but more importantly its relatively light (for an EV) meaning so far we've been averaging 4.4 miles per Kwh. That tranlates to a real world range of c. 230 miles although of course we would never run down to zero. But realistically 180-190 before we start feeling uncomfortable (that's cross country - slightly less on the motorway).
Day to day running costs are about one third of running the GLC if we charge from home (which we do 90% of the time) which I calculated as follows:
The long term average fuel consultion on the GLC is about 40 mpg.
A gallon of fuel is 4.55 litres which at £1.85 per litres means 40 miles costs c. £8.40
The Zoe does 4.4 miles per Kwh
That means for 40 miles we need just over 9 kw.
We're currently paying 28 p per kw which equates to about £2.50 for the same 40 miles
But is the Zoe a nice car to drive?
It's alright. We're still in the novelty phase. The acceleration is very smooth and driving around town is so relaxing with the single linear gear and regen braking. But these are relatively heavy cars and there is considerable body roll around corners (but you get used to it). You also need to get used to driving at 65 on the motorway or the consumption starts to increase significantly. But that's also ok - I'm retired so what's the rush?
So ......so far so good. Thre GLC will likely need replacing in the next 18 months at which point we may do an about turn replacing that with full electric (id 5 looks nice) and going petrol on the second car... But lets see.
We need to change my wife's 2010 Clio. I intended to spend around £12-13k on a 2019 Skoda Fabia SEL. She drives about 2,500 miles/year so petrol costs less than £120/year. Mainly local or up to 30 mile round trips plus a couple of 200 mile round trips a year.
Decided to compare with a Zoe. Same age would cost £2-2.5k more than the Fabia & the battery lease is £40+/month so £480/year.
We would keep the car for 5 years so Zoe costs £2k extra to buy & total battery lease £1,800 more than petrol for the Fabia. Plus the cost of recharging the Zoe for 12.5k miles.
My wife hates the idea of a EV so with those costs I have no chance of convincing her.
Perhaps a hybrid would be better? Around 4m long (she doesn't want anything bigger). 3 years old & can be bought for under £14k at 3 years old or less.
Any suggestions?
Decided to compare with a Zoe. Same age would cost £2-2.5k more than the Fabia & the battery lease is £40+/month so £480/year.
We would keep the car for 5 years so Zoe costs £2k extra to buy & total battery lease £1,800 more than petrol for the Fabia. Plus the cost of recharging the Zoe for 12.5k miles.
My wife hates the idea of a EV so with those costs I have no chance of convincing her.
Perhaps a hybrid would be better? Around 4m long (she doesn't want anything bigger). 3 years old & can be bought for under £14k at 3 years old or less.
Any suggestions?
Glosphil said:
We need to change my wife's 2010 Clio. I intended to spend around £12-13k on a 2019 Skoda Fabia SEL. She drives about 2,500 miles/year so petrol costs less than £120/year. Mainly local or up to 30 mile round trips plus a couple of 200 mile round trips a year.
Decided to compare with a Zoe. Same age would cost £2-2.5k more than the Fabia & the battery lease is £40+/month so £480/year.
We would keep the car for 5 years so Zoe costs £2k extra to buy & total battery lease £1,800 more than petrol for the Fabia. Plus the cost of recharging the Zoe for 12.5k miles.
My wife hates the idea of a EV so with those costs I have no chance of convincing her.
Perhaps a hybrid would be better? Around 4m long (she doesn't want anything bigger). 3 years old & can be bought for under £14k at 3 years old or less.
Any suggestions?
stick with ICE. i say that as a full EV convert.Decided to compare with a Zoe. Same age would cost £2-2.5k more than the Fabia & the battery lease is £40+/month so £480/year.
We would keep the car for 5 years so Zoe costs £2k extra to buy & total battery lease £1,800 more than petrol for the Fabia. Plus the cost of recharging the Zoe for 12.5k miles.
My wife hates the idea of a EV so with those costs I have no chance of convincing her.
Perhaps a hybrid would be better? Around 4m long (she doesn't want anything bigger). 3 years old & can be bought for under £14k at 3 years old or less.
Any suggestions?
Glosphil said:
We need to change my wife's 2010 Clio. I intended to spend around £12-13k on a 2019 Skoda Fabia SEL. She drives about 2,500 miles/year so petrol costs less than £120/year. Mainly local or up to 30 mile round trips plus a couple of 200 mile round trips a year.
I think your sums are out there slightly- that indicates about 170mpg!But agreed, with such low usage the maths won't justify an EV unless you go older and play battery roulette.
My recommendation would be a Jazz.
markirl said:
Glosphil said:
We need to change my wife's 2010 Clio. I intended to spend around £12-13k on a 2019 Skoda Fabia SEL. She drives about 2,500 miles/year so petrol costs less than £120/year. Mainly local or up to 30 mile round trips plus a couple of 200 mile round trips a year.
I think your sums are out there slightly- that indicates about 170mpg!But agreed, with such low usage the maths won't justify an EV unless you go older and play battery roulette.
My recommendation would be a Jazz.
We're dipping our toe in the water too. Picked up our shiny new (to us) i3s on Friday.
I'd have been in an EV a lot sooner, were it not for being stuck on the idea that a car needs to do everything to be useful. A car that can carry us all comfortable for 300 miles with loads of luggage means a Model Y or Model S, both of which are too expensive to buy new for the spreadsheet to work vs diesel.
But we've spent half as much on an i3 that will replace ICE for 90% of our journeys, and accepted that it doesn't need to do the other 10% to be a viable and functional vehicle.
The i3s has a range of 150+miles around town and local roads, and 100-120 motorway miles. Our first journey was 670 miles over 2 days (collecting it) and it was absolutely no bother at all. Not the best tool for the job, sure, but we didn't encounter any range anxiety, charger issues, or any stress whatsoever.
I actually think the smaller, nippier EV with lighter weight and lower range makes more sense as transport than the big ones I have been trying to justify for so long. If we had a Model Y, we'd be lugging around 1000kgs of excess weight on every local trip for the very few times we need a bit more range and space.
Congrats on the Zoe, and I hope you're enjoying the EV experience as much as we are.
I'd have been in an EV a lot sooner, were it not for being stuck on the idea that a car needs to do everything to be useful. A car that can carry us all comfortable for 300 miles with loads of luggage means a Model Y or Model S, both of which are too expensive to buy new for the spreadsheet to work vs diesel.
But we've spent half as much on an i3 that will replace ICE for 90% of our journeys, and accepted that it doesn't need to do the other 10% to be a viable and functional vehicle.
The i3s has a range of 150+miles around town and local roads, and 100-120 motorway miles. Our first journey was 670 miles over 2 days (collecting it) and it was absolutely no bother at all. Not the best tool for the job, sure, but we didn't encounter any range anxiety, charger issues, or any stress whatsoever.
I actually think the smaller, nippier EV with lighter weight and lower range makes more sense as transport than the big ones I have been trying to justify for so long. If we had a Model Y, we'd be lugging around 1000kgs of excess weight on every local trip for the very few times we need a bit more range and space.
Congrats on the Zoe, and I hope you're enjoying the EV experience as much as we are.
Glosphil said:
We need to change my wife's 2010 Clio. I intended to spend around £12-13k on a 2019 Skoda Fabia SEL. She drives about 2,500 miles/year so petrol costs less than £120/year. Mainly local or up to 30 mile round trips plus a couple of 200 mile round trips a year.
Decided to compare with a Zoe. Same age would cost £2-2.5k more than the Fabia & the battery lease is £40+/month so £480/year.
We would keep the car for 5 years so Zoe costs £2k extra to buy & total battery lease £1,800 more than petrol for the Fabia. Plus the cost of recharging the Zoe for 12.5k miles.
My wife hates the idea of a EV so with those costs I have no chance of convincing her.
Perhaps a hybrid would be better? Around 4m long (she doesn't want anything bigger). 3 years old & can be bought for under £14k at 3 years old or less.
Any suggestions?
We're taking delivery of an Elmo Zoe rental next Tues for a few months to cover the wait till my wife's Born arrives. We need the extra range of the Zoe compared to her current e-Golf from 1st Sep, so this seemed to fit the bill perfectly. We've never driven one, but I'm sure it will be fine for what we need! Elmo have an offer of £75 off the first month rental at the moment so it might be a relatively cheap option to properly try one out for a month and see if she changes her mind on the EV hating thing! Certainly doesn't seem like a hybrid would make sense for the driving use you've described.Decided to compare with a Zoe. Same age would cost £2-2.5k more than the Fabia & the battery lease is £40+/month so £480/year.
We would keep the car for 5 years so Zoe costs £2k extra to buy & total battery lease £1,800 more than petrol for the Fabia. Plus the cost of recharging the Zoe for 12.5k miles.
My wife hates the idea of a EV so with those costs I have no chance of convincing her.
Perhaps a hybrid would be better? Around 4m long (she doesn't want anything bigger). 3 years old & can be bought for under £14k at 3 years old or less.
Any suggestions?
As a side note, just got an incredible sale price via Motorway for the Golf - their auction ended at £1,100 more than their original online estimate meaning that we're only down £1,200 over the 14 months and 18k miles we've had it. Happy with that.
I think most couples who buy a BEV as 'her car' end up using it for quite a bit of mileage previously done by 'his car'?
Apologies if anyone is offended by the stereotype, I've spent quite a few years failing to convince someone to buy a 'serious long distance car' so I can get a fun runabout.
Apologies if anyone is offended by the stereotype, I've spent quite a few years failing to convince someone to buy a 'serious long distance car' so I can get a fun runabout.
CapScarlet said:
The Zoe a 52kwh usable battery (pretty big for a small car) but more importantly its relatively light (for an EV) meaning so far we've been averaging 4.4 miles per Kwh. That tranlates to a real world range of c. 230 miles although of course we would never run down to zero. But realistically 180-190 before we start feeling uncomfortable (that's cross country - slightly less on the motorway).
Day to day running costs are about one third of running the GLC if we charge from home (which we do 90% of the time) which I calculated as follows:
The long term average fuel consultion on the GLC is about 40 mpg.
A gallon of fuel is 4.55 litres which at £1.85 per litres means 40 miles costs c. £8.40
The Zoe does 4.4 miles per Kwh
That means for 40 miles we need just over 9 kw.
We're currently paying 28 p per kw which equates to about £2.50 for the same 40 miles
But is the Zoe a nice car to drive?
It's alright. We're still in the novelty phase. The acceleration is very smooth and driving around town is so relaxing with the single linear gear and regen braking. But these are relatively heavy cars and there is considerable body roll around corners (but you get used to it). You also need to get used to driving at 65 on the motorway or the consumption starts to increase significantly. But that's also ok - I'm retired so what's the rush?
My wife has been using a Zoe with a 52kWh battery for around 18 months and has come to very similar conclusions.Day to day running costs are about one third of running the GLC if we charge from home (which we do 90% of the time) which I calculated as follows:
The long term average fuel consultion on the GLC is about 40 mpg.
A gallon of fuel is 4.55 litres which at £1.85 per litres means 40 miles costs c. £8.40
The Zoe does 4.4 miles per Kwh
That means for 40 miles we need just over 9 kw.
We're currently paying 28 p per kw which equates to about £2.50 for the same 40 miles
But is the Zoe a nice car to drive?
It's alright. We're still in the novelty phase. The acceleration is very smooth and driving around town is so relaxing with the single linear gear and regen braking. But these are relatively heavy cars and there is considerable body roll around corners (but you get used to it). You also need to get used to driving at 65 on the motorway or the consumption starts to increase significantly. But that's also ok - I'm retired so what's the rush?
In winter the miles / kWh will drop - last January it was down below 3.5, but that is really only relevant for longer journeys.
As for the running cost, for most of the time we have been with Octopus so electric at 5p/kWh so that would equate to 45p for those 40 miles.
The biggest advantage my wife has noticed over ICE is the timed pre-warming of the car so when it is icy and cold she can jump into a decked and warm car.
dmsims said:
Glosphil said:
Perhaps a hybrid would be better? Around 4m long (she doesn't want anything bigger). 3 years old & can be bought for under £14k at 3 years old or less.
Any suggestions?
Yaris ?Any suggestions?
The problem being that we live in the hilly Cotwolds & her short journeys all include many hills. All 3 cars would need to use their petrol engines to manage the hills.
The best motive power for her is a petrol turbo with a decent amount of torque at low to medium revs. This is shown by comparing her current 1.2T 100hp Clio against against a friend's 1.4 n/a 100hp Clio.
Glosphil said:
I have looked at hybrid cars at around the size & price my wife wants & none of the 3 suit her needs.
The problem being that we live in the hilly Cotwolds & her short journeys all include many hills. All 3 cars would need to use their petrol engines to manage the hills.
The best motive power for her is a petrol turbo with a decent amount of torque at low to medium revs. This is shown by comparing her current 1.2T 100hp Clio against against a friend's 1.4 n/a 100hp Clio.
This make no sense to me - that's precisely what a hybrid is supposed to doThe problem being that we live in the hilly Cotwolds & her short journeys all include many hills. All 3 cars would need to use their petrol engines to manage the hills.
The best motive power for her is a petrol turbo with a decent amount of torque at low to medium revs. This is shown by comparing her current 1.2T 100hp Clio against against a friend's 1.4 n/a 100hp Clio.
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