PHEV in winter
Discussion
I'm looking at a used PHEV, something like a Ioniq, 225XE or Outlander, reason being we do the school run during the week and then longer journeys at other times.
My question is around how much electric only running can I get in winter. Say its 1c outside, even if I pre-heat the car whilst plugged in, will I be able to drive it immediately on electric only or will the car override with the ICE because its cold?
My question is around how much electric only running can I get in winter. Say its 1c outside, even if I pre-heat the car whilst plugged in, will I be able to drive it immediately on electric only or will the car override with the ICE because its cold?
runboy said:
I'm looking at a used PHEV, something like a Ioniq, 225XE or Outlander, reason being we do the school run during the week and then longer journeys at other times.
My question is around how much electric only running can I get in winter. Say its 1c outside, even if I pre-heat the car whilst plugged in, will I be able to drive it immediately on electric only or will the car override with the ICE because its cold?
It all depends upon how the PHEV has been setup. Every manufacturer does things a bit differently. The other thing to note is that how PHEVs behave in the winter will vary too! Some will be more efficient than others. My question is around how much electric only running can I get in winter. Say its 1c outside, even if I pre-heat the car whilst plugged in, will I be able to drive it immediately on electric only or will the car override with the ICE because its cold?
For example, I had a C350e that had a 12 mile range in summer (that's 12 miles of low speed driving, not 12 miles of motorway driving)
Going to winter time, let's say even at 7C, and range would drop to 4-6 miles on battery. At least with the C350e, even without being plugged in, provided the battery had enough charge, you could drive off in electric even in the coldest of weather, and you could even use the hybrid battery to heat the car up too (not every PHEV allows you to do that, some start the engine the moment you use the heater etc)
With my A3 etron you can use EV mode in winter usually, though the range is not great. You’ll get around 10 miles below 4C. Generally I’ll run it on hybrid auto mode in those conditions so the battery lasts longer. Apparently if it’s below -28, the car won’t start at all as the battery is frozen; then again I wouldn’t want to be going out if it’s that cold anyway!
The Volvo V60 (2nd/current gen) has an auxiliary heater that uses petrol, while the XC40 uses a resistance heater draining the battery (or using the wall power when plugged in).
Makes a big difference to how far you can get on the battery. Also worth noting if you do trigger the cold engine on, it will be running for a few minutes to get the emissions stuff working efficiently. That can be avoided by watching the power meter or putting it in pure electric driving mode (where kickdown is still available if you need the all the power in an 'emergency').
The power of the electric motors are also increasing at a rapid pace. The first gen V60 D6 only were 69hp, which wasn't enough to reach 60-70mph swiftly for a 2T car. Latest gen facelift are 140hp which aren't lethargic outside of town on electric anymore.
Makes a big difference to how far you can get on the battery. Also worth noting if you do trigger the cold engine on, it will be running for a few minutes to get the emissions stuff working efficiently. That can be avoided by watching the power meter or putting it in pure electric driving mode (where kickdown is still available if you need the all the power in an 'emergency').
The power of the electric motors are also increasing at a rapid pace. The first gen V60 D6 only were 69hp, which wasn't enough to reach 60-70mph swiftly for a 2T car. Latest gen facelift are 140hp which aren't lethargic outside of town on electric anymore.
Edited by HelldogBE on Monday 8th August 16:05
Hi, we run a '68' plate 225 XE. Winter range on pure electric is around 15 to 18 miles depending on how hard you drive it. Pre-conditioning is very good and it's ready to drive off on just electric, needs around 30 minutes to condition using a 13 amp socket. The comment relating to the plug freezing into the car is also valid on the 225, but a spray with deicer generally clears it. We like it as it does what we require, which is local journeys purely on the electric. For distance journeys how you drive has a big impact on fuel consumption. Wop it down the motorway and its mid 30's, use A roads and stay with no more than 60 and its 50 -60 mpg with no problem.
Cheers
Dave
Cheers
Dave
Thanks all, some useful insight. We are trying to decide whether to go full electric but our price point is maybe a 30 or 40kwh Leaf whereas the choice of PHEV is wider.
My dilemma is PHEV still has all the ICE costs but with a bit of saving on the short school run journeys, hence my question about winter because if a PHEV still runs the engine, I'm not sure it's worth the swap from my current diesel where the repeat short runs won't do it any good but the weekend runs maybe even that out.
My dilemma is PHEV still has all the ICE costs but with a bit of saving on the short school run journeys, hence my question about winter because if a PHEV still runs the engine, I'm not sure it's worth the swap from my current diesel where the repeat short runs won't do it any good but the weekend runs maybe even that out.
There is a fair chunk of maths to do to see if you actually would save any money. The PHEV being more expensive to buy compared to an ICE car and alos being less efficent when on a run due to increased weight can often outweigh the savings you may make from being on electric for short journeys. When I did it there wasn't much to be saved for me swapping to a PHEV so I went with a normal Hybrid.
runboy said:
Thanks all, some useful insight. We are trying to decide whether to go full electric but our price point is maybe a 30 or 40kwh Leaf whereas the choice of PHEV is wider.
My dilemma is PHEV still has all the ICE costs but with a bit of saving on the short school run journeys, hence my question about winter because if a PHEV still runs the engine, I'm not sure it's worth the swap from my current diesel where the repeat short runs won't do it any good but the weekend runs maybe even that out.
My dilemma is PHEV still has all the ICE costs but with a bit of saving on the short school run journeys, hence my question about winter because if a PHEV still runs the engine, I'm not sure it's worth the swap from my current diesel where the repeat short runs won't do it any good but the weekend runs maybe even that out.
If the only attraction is some savings on the school run, I wouldn't do it. You won't see the savings you expect.
I've a 2021 Volvo XC60 PHEV.
I can't say that I've seen the range drop off much in the winter-pre condition while on charge. The engine won't kick in on pure electric mode unless e.g. you're at a junction and really boot it.
What range do you need it to do on full electric? We do very little in the way of 'petrol' journeys so I imagine the sums start to work in our favour but I've never done the maths tbh.
It's getting a combined 67.2 MPG after ~12K miles. I came from a T5 petrol (exact same engine minus the PHEV) and got 27 MPG.
I can't say that I've seen the range drop off much in the winter-pre condition while on charge. The engine won't kick in on pure electric mode unless e.g. you're at a junction and really boot it.
What range do you need it to do on full electric? We do very little in the way of 'petrol' journeys so I imagine the sums start to work in our favour but I've never done the maths tbh.
It's getting a combined 67.2 MPG after ~12K miles. I came from a T5 petrol (exact same engine minus the PHEV) and got 27 MPG.
My 2018 Outlander PHEV has been doing around 10-13 miles in the winter after a full overnight (4ish hours)granny charge, Mine is an early 2018 the later 2018 one is 2.4L & has a bigger battery.
Note if you need heating then the engine will generally start, although if you pre heat using the app before disconnecting it doesn't.
Note if you need heating then the engine will generally start, although if you pre heat using the app before disconnecting it doesn't.
a311 said:
I've a 2021 Volvo XC60 PHEV.
I can't say that I've seen the range drop off much in the winter-pre condition while on charge. The engine won't kick in on pure electric mode unless e.g. you're at a junction and really boot it.
What range do you need it to do on full electric? We do very little in the way of 'petrol' journeys so I imagine the sums start to work in our favour but I've never done the maths tbh.
It's getting a combined 67.2 MPG after ~12K miles. I came from a T5 petrol (exact same engine minus the PHEV) and got 27 MPG.
I think you have the bigger range on yours? Can't remember when the Volvos changed but they were one of the first PHEVs with useful electric only range. I'm not sure if the OP will be able to get one like yours and will be stuck in the 5 - 15 mile range.I can't say that I've seen the range drop off much in the winter-pre condition while on charge. The engine won't kick in on pure electric mode unless e.g. you're at a junction and really boot it.
What range do you need it to do on full electric? We do very little in the way of 'petrol' journeys so I imagine the sums start to work in our favour but I've never done the maths tbh.
It's getting a combined 67.2 MPG after ~12K miles. I came from a T5 petrol (exact same engine minus the PHEV) and got 27 MPG.
runboy said:
Thanks all, some useful insight. We are trying to decide whether to go full electric but our price point is maybe a 30 or 40kwh Leaf whereas the choice of PHEV is wider.
My dilemma is PHEV still has all the ICE costs but with a bit of saving on the short school run journeys, hence my question about winter because if a PHEV still runs the engine, I'm not sure it's worth the swap from my current diesel where the repeat short runs won't do it any good but the weekend runs maybe even that out.
How many miles do you do a week (or month or year if that’s easier to work out)? My dilemma is PHEV still has all the ICE costs but with a bit of saving on the short school run journeys, hence my question about winter because if a PHEV still runs the engine, I'm not sure it's worth the swap from my current diesel where the repeat short runs won't do it any good but the weekend runs maybe even that out.
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