Will electricity prices start to kill off EV's?
Discussion
The increase in electricity prices will already make many EV's more expensive to 'fill up' than ICE cars and this is for charging at home, goodness knows what it will cost at fast public chargers, when firms catch up with the latest price increases.
https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/energy-price-...
Of course electricity prices will be going up again by about 50% early next year. When that happens there will be a big gap between 'filling up' EV's and ICE cars.
With fairly bog standard unexciting EV's coming in at about £40,000, who will be wanting to buy knowing they will have to pay far more to fuel them?
https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/energy-price-...
Of course electricity prices will be going up again by about 50% early next year. When that happens there will be a big gap between 'filling up' EV's and ICE cars.
With fairly bog standard unexciting EV's coming in at about £40,000, who will be wanting to buy knowing they will have to pay far more to fuel them?
I don't know a single EV owner who doesn't have a tariff that caters for cheap off peak charging. Octopus Go is still 7.5p/kwh for 4 hours per night if you sign up now.
Personally I've a few months of the 5p version and have the option of charging at work for ~8p/kwh.
Incidentally for my commute I'd rather be in an EV, even if worked out more expensive than a diesel.
Personally I've a few months of the 5p version and have the option of charging at work for ~8p/kwh.
Incidentally for my commute I'd rather be in an EV, even if worked out more expensive than a diesel.
Tigger2050 said:
With fairly bog standard unexciting EV's coming in at about £40,000, who will be wanting to buy knowing they will have to pay far more to fuel them?
So about the same as a fairly bog standard unexciting ICE then? Only the ICE goes without the tax breaks, zero road tax and low cost of servicing... Even "refilling" at the price cap rate you're still paying about £45 to charge vs about £50 for a very economical petrol. EVs still have waiting lists running into years not months and they're here to stay due to the legislation that means they are the only option.
boombang said:
I don't know a single EV owner who doesn't have a tariff that caters for cheap off peak charging. Octopus Go is still 7.5p/kwh for 4 hours per night if you sign up now.t
Personally I've a few months of the 5p version and have the option of charging at work for ~8p/kwh.
Incidentally for my commute I'd rather be in an EV, even if worked out more expensive than a diesel.
Off peak tariffs means you pay more than the standard tariff at other times i.e. when most people use most of their electricity. Not a good idea for most people. Personally I've a few months of the 5p version and have the option of charging at work for ~8p/kwh.
Incidentally for my commute I'd rather be in an EV, even if worked out more expensive than a diesel.
What if your fuel was costing you 50% more?
Electricity is now being forecast to increase by more than 50% in January and by 80% in April.
Whilst you might not be bothered about the cost of fuelling your vehicle, the majority will be. The majority of EV buyers quoted it was the cheap fuel that motivated them the most.
Tigger2050 said:
boombang said:
I don't know a single EV owner who doesn't have a tariff that caters for cheap off peak charging. Octopus Go is still 7.5p/kwh for 4 hours per night if you sign up now.t
Personally I've a few months of the 5p version and have the option of charging at work for ~8p/kwh.
Incidentally for my commute I'd rather be in an EV, even if worked out more expensive than a diesel.
Off peak tariffs means you pay more than the standard tariff at other times i.e. when most people use most of their electricity. Not a good idea for most people. Personally I've a few months of the 5p version and have the option of charging at work for ~8p/kwh.
Incidentally for my commute I'd rather be in an EV, even if worked out more expensive than a diesel.
But even taking that 12p difference and ignoring it will vanish in a few weeks, that means the average consumer would be paying £1,000 a year against the person on the variable tariff paying £812, and that’s without the Octopus Go user shifting high energy use such as dishwashers, washing machine, etc. use into the cheap period.
So for £200 (at most) a year I can now drive 8,000 miles at a cost of £150 of electricity against £1,500 of petrol.
And no road tax, free parking in some towns, etc.
I think I will take that deal.
Tigger2050 said:
What if your fuel was costing you 50% more?
So I pay £300 not £1,500 (and that’s assuming petrol doesn’t go up) - yep, still taking that deal.boombang said:
I don't know a single EV owner who doesn't have a tariff that caters for cheap off peak charging. Octopus Go is still 7.5p/kwh for 4 hours per night if you sign up now.
Personally I've a few months of the 5p version and have the option of charging at work for ~8p/kwh.
Incidentally for my commute I'd rather be in an EV, even if worked out more expensive than a diesel.
Just had a quick look at Octopus Go, and it would increase my Electric bill by £15 per month.Personally I've a few months of the 5p version and have the option of charging at work for ~8p/kwh.
Incidentally for my commute I'd rather be in an EV, even if worked out more expensive than a diesel.
However, with a 7kw charger, I estimate I could put roughly 70 miles of range into an EV for 30p a day on the 4 hour cheap rate. Which would save me over £135 per month, compared to my small diesel commuter.
I couldn't see it on their site, but is it a fixed rate or variable ?
O/P
Apart from anything else, I had to travel a 35 mile round trip to fill up my ICE every 2 weeks. This was costing me nearly 900 miles, >£2,500 and 40 hours of driving a year.
Combined with that I get 50% of my car costs against tax and also 75% of my electricity use, as I work from home and am self employed.
No brainer to get some sort of electric car.
As I live where there are f
k all chargers, I went hybrid this time around, but am currently doing +/- 700 mpg.
Works a treat. Saves me a lot of time and a lot of money. What's not to like?
Apart from anything else, I had to travel a 35 mile round trip to fill up my ICE every 2 weeks. This was costing me nearly 900 miles, >£2,500 and 40 hours of driving a year.
Combined with that I get 50% of my car costs against tax and also 75% of my electricity use, as I work from home and am self employed.
No brainer to get some sort of electric car.
As I live where there are f
k all chargers, I went hybrid this time around, but am currently doing +/- 700 mpg.Works a treat. Saves me a lot of time and a lot of money. What's not to like?
I don't think the price of domestic electricity will notably inhibit the sale of EVs.
However, an area that may be inhibited is non domestic charging? The corporate rates for electricity are bigger and that may discourage businesses from installing chargers going forward, it may end free charging as an incentive to bring in customers and it may put off some future EV buyers who were going to be reliant on refuelling away from home.
The very significant increase in energy pricing will almost certainly have an impact on the EV market and network but I'm not sure the overall impact will be negative. It will steer some people away from EVs due to their particular usage but it will also attract others due to theirs.
Overall, one is more likely to conclude that rising domestic electricity bills will do big damage to ICE car sales as EVs are more likely to be bought by higher income earners for whom rising utility bills are of little real consequence as opposed to ICe making up not just the vast majority of car sales but including the least affluent and most exposed to rising domestic costs.
Ie, for very many households the monthly income that has recently been being assigned to paying for a nice ICE car is going to be now soaked up by heating bills meaning a potential slump or at least a significant downgrading in ICE purchases.
My guess is that rising electricity costs will not have a significant impact on the growth of EV sales but will almost certainly decimate the amount being spent on ICE. I see the rise in costs impacting ICE far more significantly.
However, an area that may be inhibited is non domestic charging? The corporate rates for electricity are bigger and that may discourage businesses from installing chargers going forward, it may end free charging as an incentive to bring in customers and it may put off some future EV buyers who were going to be reliant on refuelling away from home.
The very significant increase in energy pricing will almost certainly have an impact on the EV market and network but I'm not sure the overall impact will be negative. It will steer some people away from EVs due to their particular usage but it will also attract others due to theirs.
Overall, one is more likely to conclude that rising domestic electricity bills will do big damage to ICE car sales as EVs are more likely to be bought by higher income earners for whom rising utility bills are of little real consequence as opposed to ICe making up not just the vast majority of car sales but including the least affluent and most exposed to rising domestic costs.
Ie, for very many households the monthly income that has recently been being assigned to paying for a nice ICE car is going to be now soaked up by heating bills meaning a potential slump or at least a significant downgrading in ICE purchases.
My guess is that rising electricity costs will not have a significant impact on the growth of EV sales but will almost certainly decimate the amount being spent on ICE. I see the rise in costs impacting ICE far more significantly.
boombang said:
I don't know a single EV owner who doesn't have a tariff that caters for cheap off peak charging. Octopus Go is still 7.5p/kwh for 4 hours per night if you sign up now.
Personally I've a few months of the 5p version and have the option of charging at work for ~8p/kwh.
Incidentally for my commute I'd rather be in an EV, even if worked out more expensive than a diesel.
That's what a lot of people don't understand. Personally I've a few months of the 5p version and have the option of charging at work for ~8p/kwh.
Incidentally for my commute I'd rather be in an EV, even if worked out more expensive than a diesel.
Where the use case for EVs work they're undeniably better so evenif they do cost the same the EV still makes more sense.
Tigger2050 said:
boombang said:
I don't know a single EV owner who doesn't have a tariff that caters for cheap off peak charging. Octopus Go is still 7.5p/kwh for 4 hours per night if you sign up now.t
Personally I've a few months of the 5p version and have the option of charging at work for ~8p/kwh.
Incidentally for my commute I'd rather be in an EV, even if worked out more expensive than a diesel.
Off peak tariffs means you pay more than the standard tariff at other times i.e. when most people use most of their electricity. Not a good idea for most people. Personally I've a few months of the 5p version and have the option of charging at work for ~8p/kwh.
Incidentally for my commute I'd rather be in an EV, even if worked out more expensive than a diesel.
What if your fuel was costing you 50% more?
Electricity is now being forecast to increase by more than 50% in January and by 80% in April.
Whilst you might not be bothered about the cost of fuelling your vehicle, the majority will be. The majority of EV buyers quoted it was the cheap fuel that motivated them the most.
This
The EV will not be the cheap option anymore. They may also be rfl free at the moment but you can bet they won't be forever.
Even if it cost £1 per kWh for the Taycan, it would still be on par with the RS4 it replaced for energy costs. But the tax savings on the Taycan and the far superior driving experience make it an absolute no brainer.
Granted, if electricity goes to £2 per kWh, then maybe it makes no sense. But at £2 per kWh, there will be far more to worry about than saving a few quid in corp tax, as I suspect the revolution will have happened by that stage.
Granted, if electricity goes to £2 per kWh, then maybe it makes no sense. But at £2 per kWh, there will be far more to worry about than saving a few quid in corp tax, as I suspect the revolution will have happened by that stage.
ChocolateFrog said:
Me too.
It's not difficult to work out and spoiler alert were not there yet.
Why don't you read the link and then tell Which they are lying?It's not difficult to work out and spoiler alert were not there yet.
https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/energy-price-...
That is for charging at home. Currently, public chargers charge at twice the domestic rate, per Kwh, to use them (they have to pay 20% VAT for starters).
What person, who has no access to private charging (millions of people) would ever consider buying an EV, costing them twice the price to fuel them over an ICE vehicle?
Even if you can charge at home, if a significant part of your annual mileage involves longer journeys (like mine), meaning you have to use public charging, this would be a major disincentive to purchasing an EV.
Charging at home will be about 80% more expensive than using ordinary fuel from next April, if the predictions are correct. I assume charging at a public point will be about 160% more expensive than petrol or diesel.
Tigger2050 said:
Why don't you read the link and then tell Which they are lying?
https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/energy-price-...
That is for charging at home. Currently, public chargers charge at twice the domestic rate, per Kwh, to use them (they have to pay 20% VAT for starters).
What person, who has no access to private charging (millions of people) would ever consider buying an EV, costing them twice the price to fuel them over an ICE vehicle?
Even if you can charge at home, if a significant part of your annual mileage involves longer journeys (like mine), meaning you have to use public charging, this would be a major disincentive to purchasing an EV.
Charging at home will be about 80% more expensive than using ordinary fuel from next April, if the predictions are correct. I assume charging at a public point will be about 160% more expensive than petrol or diesel.
For one, they've made a rather convenient and I suspect deliberate error so as to curve fit the data. https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/energy-price-...
That is for charging at home. Currently, public chargers charge at twice the domestic rate, per Kwh, to use them (they have to pay 20% VAT for starters).
What person, who has no access to private charging (millions of people) would ever consider buying an EV, costing them twice the price to fuel them over an ICE vehicle?
Even if you can charge at home, if a significant part of your annual mileage involves longer journeys (like mine), meaning you have to use public charging, this would be a major disincentive to purchasing an EV.
Charging at home will be about 80% more expensive than using ordinary fuel from next April, if the predictions are correct. I assume charging at a public point will be about 160% more expensive than petrol or diesel.
'51% of electric vehicle (EV) owners bought their car because of the lower running costs that EVs can offer, according to a survey we ran earlier this year.'
They've then taken that and decided that those people were all previously driving small diesels and returning 55mpg for the purpose of their calcs.
Obviously, we can see through that and know that there is no correlation between the 51% response and those people driving the cheapest, most frugal diesel. Ergo, they were previously driving ICE that returned much lower mpg figures than the ones cherry picked.
The other slight issue is that Which is a publication for old, scared and not particularly educated white men who want a publication to scare the crap out of them while simultaneously enraging them and proving their views correct.
There will of course be some of those folks who traded in a frugal diesel for a £35,000 Kia to save a few quid on fuel. These were the same idiots who spent tens of thousands on new diesels to save a few quid on VED. And they probably correlate well Will the old idiots in small houses who have spent £10k on solar panels to save a few quid despite the statistical reality that they will be dead years before those panels start to return any money, which would have been a week before they broke and went in the bin anyway.
Suffice to say the more typical EV buyer has probably switch from an equivalent vehicle that was significantly more thirsty and will remain quids in on the fuel cost front even at the elevated rates.
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