RE: Caterham plots future two-seat, rear-drive EV
RE: Caterham plots future two-seat, rear-drive EV
Monday 31st October 2022

Caterham plots future two-seat, rear-drive EV

Firm said to be keen on the idea of a simple, light and agile electric sports car - they ain't the only ones


Is there a harder ask or taller in-tray in the British car industry than the one presented to Bob Laishley when he succeeded Graham Macdonald as Caterham’s CEO earlier this year? (Short answer, yes: the bosses of Aston Martin, McLaren and Jaguar have agonising challenges aplenty to consider.) Nevertheless, Laishley, formerly the firm’s Chief Strategic Officer, hasn’t had a second to rest on his laurels since joining from Nissan. After all, Caterham has the end of combustion engines to worry about - and the perils of electrification that come after it. Not to mention a new SVA test that will require newfangled options like lane keep assist and collision avoidance. All somewhat tricky when your car can’t even do wing mirrors properly. 

But a quarter century spent at one of the world’s largest manufacturers (some of it as the Global Sportswear Programme Director) has well equipped Laishley for the challenge, and the man is nothing if not ambitious. Aid and abetted by an enthusiastic owner - Japan’s VT Holdings - Caterham is apparently busy hatching plans for a future brand-new, rear-drive electric sports car, one endowed with its virtues of ‘lightness, simplicity, agility and performance’ but also prettier and ‘more modern’ than the Seven - and potentially furnished with a roof, too. 

That’s what Laishley told Autocar recently in a wide-ranging interview, where he also helpfully confirmed that his company would continue building combustion-powered Sevens until it is essentially forced to stop. Certainly, this will continue up to 2030 as far as the UK is concerned, but is likely to proceed until 2034 at least on the basis of export market potential - not least in the US. Additionally, he ruled out the possibility of a hybrid version of the Lotus descendent, sagely noting that a ‘1,000kg Seven’ would not be worth the effort. 

Obviously, there’s space on the drawing board for an electric-only variant down the road, but while his predecessor famously suggested such a Seven was in development, Laishley is apparently happy to concede that Caterham will need to wait for the technology to catch up with its unique requirements. Hence all the excitement about a more expensive and possibly all-weather EV to be launched in the next few years; a new larger volume model that wouldn’t be quite so bound by the Seven’s unimpeachable and character-defining red lines. 

Of course, it would still need to be a Caterham. The company CEO suggested to Autocar that it would retain a steel spaceframe (because it is good at those) and probably a ‘six-panel enveloping body in aluminium or carbon’. But there will be sills and proper doors, too, hence the possibility of a fixed roof. And while Laishley suggested a I’ve-definitely-drunk-the-kool-aid preference for doing without modern niceties like power steering and ABS, the truth is that the car would need to feature all these things to pass a stricter SVA test, which Caterham is definitely aiming to do. 

Needless to say, he will also be well aware of Caterham’s previous attempts to colour outside the Seven’s lines. The aborted Alpine-led C120 project is an easy reference point when it comes to the recent past, but the firm also had a much more sustained goes with cars like the Caterham 21 (a nineties-era effort in the ‘prettier, pricier’ department), the oft-forgotten and track-only SP/300.R, and the now decade-old, CSR-based AeroSeven, which was absolutely going to make it to series production - but never did. Mind you, it did have a carbon fibre body and a traction control system, and suggested an interesting design direction. Clearly, Laishley’s talk of doors and sills envisages a different approach - but maybe don’t be too surprised if the end result doesn’t fall too far from the established tree. 


Author
Discussion

Billy_Whizzzz

Original Poster:

2,654 posts

173 months

Monday 31st October 2022
quotequote all

Jon_S_Rally

4,501 posts

118 months

Monday 31st October 2022
quotequote all
I really don't see the need to force things like lane-keep assist on these tiny manufacturers that are only producing cars in handfuls every year. It just feels like legislation for the sake of it. Even the whole EV thing to be honest. Does it actually matter if Caterham will still sell a few cars after 2030? Talk about marginal gains.

I fear for companies like this in the future. The project mentioned sounds expensive, complex and potentially ruinous.

Chubbyross

5,008 posts

115 months

Monday 31st October 2022
quotequote all
Jon_S_Rally said:
I really don't see the need to force things like lane-keep assist on these tiny manufacturers that are only producing cars in handfuls every year. It just feels like legislation for the sake of it. Even the whole EV thing to be honest. Does it actually matter if Caterham will still sell a few cars after 2030? Talk about marginal gains.

I fear for companies like this in the future. The project mentioned sounds expensive, complex and potentially ruinous.
Absolutely! This highlights the ham-fisted way the new legislation has been applied across the board. Surely the amount of cars produced by companies such as Caterham, not to mention the average annual mileage covered, means the co2 levels must be negligible. The government would be better off banning cow production.


Edited by Chubbyross on Monday 31st October 07:38

Twinair

1,048 posts

172 months

Monday 31st October 2022
quotequote all
Your favourite back lane, wind in your hair, roar of the eng… no scratch that, whine of the electrics, anxiety of ‘will I make it home’… great progress.

Equus

16,980 posts

131 months

Monday 31st October 2022
quotequote all
So the previous claim that an electric Caterham was under development was a lie, basically?

Still, it's not all bad news for the poor chap: prettier and more modern than the Seven's not going to be too much of a challenge.

It's trying to sell them to the closed-minded bunch of ostriches it calls a customer base that mean's they're fked, though. frown

mersontheperson

732 posts

195 months

Monday 31st October 2022
quotequote all
Autocar cover the same story but add this picture, funny how editorial can change a story dramatically


200Plus Club

13,767 posts

308 months

Monday 31st October 2022
quotequote all
Buying in those new BMW front grilles then..

BertBert

21,307 posts

241 months

Monday 31st October 2022
quotequote all
Equus said:
It's trying to sell them to the closed-minded bunch of ostriches it calls a customer base that mean's they're fked, though. frown
Not this nonsense again.

Equus

16,980 posts

131 months

Monday 31st October 2022
quotequote all
BertBert said:
Not this nonsense again.
You'll be buying one as soon as they're available, then, will you Bert?

That's good news for them.

Jon_S_Rally

4,501 posts

118 months

Monday 31st October 2022
quotequote all
Equus said:
So the previous claim that an electric Caterham was under development was a lie, basically?

Still, it's not all bad news for the poor chap: prettier and more modern than the Seven's not going to be too much of a challenge.

It's trying to sell them to the closed-minded bunch of ostriches it calls a customer base that mean's they're fked, though. frown
What are you talking about? What's wrong with liking the Seven? We don't all have to want the same thing.

chrisironside

976 posts

192 months

Monday 31st October 2022
quotequote all
The Seven was a car others tried to emulate... not sure the same will be the case with this (not least because it looks very much like the Vuhl 05 that's gone before).


BertBert

21,307 posts

241 months

Monday 31st October 2022
quotequote all
It depends entirely on what they produce and what I want at the time. I like the idea of an electric sports car. I suspect the lotus ones will be too expensive for my taste. I also suspect the caterham one will be as well. But who knows.

Where you and I disagree on the matter is that you think that a group of people called caterham owners are the ones responsible for a new caterham's success or failure. But if we look at the TAM for fun two seater sports cars, current caterham customers will make up a tiny proportion of it.

It's a bit like a bicycle manufacturer starting to make a range of 1000cc super bikes and expecting all their customers to buy them.

Equus

16,980 posts

131 months

Monday 31st October 2022
quotequote all
BertBert said:
Where you and I disagree on the matter is that you think that a group of people called caterham ownersbuyers are the ones responsible for a new caterham's success or failure.
EFA

BertBert said:
But if we look at the TAM for fun two seater sports cars, current caterham customers will make up a tiny proportion of it.
...and the problem is that Caterham has a long and sadly undistinguished record (as mentioned in the article) of failing to attract customers from new target markets.


NDNDNDND

2,546 posts

213 months

Monday 31st October 2022
quotequote all
Chubbyross said:
Jon_S_Rally said:
I really don't see the need to force things like lane-keep assist on these tiny manufacturers that are only producing cars in handfuls every year. It just feels like legislation for the sake of it. Even the whole EV thing to be honest. Does it actually matter if Caterham will still sell a few cars after 2030? Talk about marginal gains.

I fear for companies like this in the future. The project mentioned sounds expensive, complex and potentially ruinous.
Absolutely! This highlights the ham-fisted way the new legislation has been applied across the board. Surely the amount of cars produced by companies such as Caterham, not to mention the average annual mileage covered, means the co2 levels must be negligible. The government would be better of banning cow production.
More than that - I would assume an EV Caterham would have a worse carbon footprint than an ICE one, or at least have an unreasonably long payback period due to the low average mileage these cars typically travel.

In addition, Caterhams will mostly be purchased as a second car probably to complement another, more practical EV, which means the mileage covered by the owner will now be spread across two batteries. A poster in another thread reckoned it takes an average of four years for an EV to pay back its carbon footprint. Buy a second EV and now it'll take eight years to offset the carbon dioxide produced. Although this might be mitigated by the Caterham having a smaller battery, I suspect an ICE Caterham would be environmentally better.

Every SUV, city hatch back and auto barge should be switched to electric as soon as possible, not to mention all the buses, taxis, rubbish trucks, post office vans, delivery vans etc. etc. etc. all of which will have a massively, massively greater impact upon CO2 output and air quality levels than tiny, little Caterham. It's for companies like Caterham that I keep my fingers crossed for the viability of the availability of carbon neutral fuels so they can justify producing the cars they do in the face of blunt legislation.

I know there are posters on here who automatically scoff indignantly at any mention of e-fuels before tilting with relish at every straw man they can clutch at, but I like cars, so, in advance, fk you.

jm8403

2,515 posts

55 months

Monday 31st October 2022
quotequote all
NDNDNDND said:
More than that - I would assume an EV Caterham would have a worse carbon footprint than an ICE one, or at least have an unreasonably long payback period due to the low average mileage these cars typically travel.

In addition, Caterhams will mostly be purchased as a second car probably to complement another, more practical EV, which means the mileage covered by the owner will now be spread across two batteries. A poster in another thread reckoned it takes an average of four years for an EV to pay back its carbon footprint. Buy a second EV and now it'll take eight years to offset the carbon dioxide produced. Although this might be mitigated by the Caterham having a smaller battery, I suspect an ICE Caterham would be environmentally better.

Every SUV, city hatch back and auto barge should be switched to electric as soon as possible, not to mention all the buses, taxis, rubbish trucks, post office vans, delivery vans etc. etc. etc. all of which will have a massively, massively greater impact upon CO2 output and air quality levels than tiny, little Caterham. It's for companies like Caterham that I keep my fingers crossed for the viability of the availability of carbon neutral fuels so they can justify producing the cars they do in the face of blunt legislation.

I know there are posters on here who automatically scoff indignantly at any mention of e-fuels before tilting with relish at every straw man they can clutch at, but I like cars, so, in advance, fk you.
What a strange tone for a monday morning. You OK hun?

NDNDNDND

2,546 posts

213 months

Monday 31st October 2022
quotequote all
jm8403 said:
What a strange tone for a monday morning. You OK hun?
What's strange about it? I think it's a pretty valid argument for why it's counterproductive to insist that a small, niche company like Caterham are required to electrify their products.

BertBert

21,307 posts

241 months

Monday 31st October 2022
quotequote all
Equus said:
...and the problem is that Caterham has a long and sadly undistinguished record (as mentioned in the article) of failing to attract customers from new target markets.
Well we are agreed on that.

They've never managed to take their (brand) attributes and use them to progress into adjacent models. Maybe this time it'll be different.

Equus

16,980 posts

131 months

Monday 31st October 2022
quotequote all
BertBert said:
Maybe this time it'll be different.
It would be nice if the continued existence of the company relied on something more than wishful thinking though?

Especially when it turns out that the future-proofing they claimed to be working on 18 months ago was a lie...

Paulo_G

61 posts

106 months

Monday 31st October 2022
quotequote all
Problem is, say the rules did allow smaller manufacturers like Caterham to continue producing combustion engined cars after 2030, the bigger manufacturers who currently supply them with engines and other powertrain components won't be making them anymore. So what do Caterham do? Stockpile a number of years' worth of engines etc.? Storage space and cost for a bulk buy would likely be an issue. Set up their own engine manufacturing?A very expensive option, even if they were to acquire tooling. Maybe the better way forward here is to go EV and do so with a similar set up to what they have now where they buy in powertrain components and repackage them into their own cars. And given the progress we've already had in the last few years, and with exponentially increasing EV take up, those powertrain components will become cheaper and the technology will allow for more suitable components for a lighter sports car application.

MountainsofSussex

450 posts

216 months

Monday 31st October 2022
quotequote all
NDNDNDND said:
More than that - I would assume an EV Caterham would have a worse carbon footprint than an ICE one, or at least have an unreasonably long payback period due to the low average mileage these cars typically travel.

In addition, Caterhams will mostly be purchased as a second car probably to complement another, more practical EV, which means the mileage covered by the owner will now be spread across two batteries. A poster in another thread reckoned it takes an average of four years for an EV to pay back its carbon footprint. Buy a second EV and now it'll take eight years to offset the carbon dioxide produced. Although this might be mitigated by the Caterham having a smaller battery, I suspect an ICE Caterham would be environmentally better.

Every SUV, city hatch back and auto barge should be switched to electric as soon as possible, not to mention all the buses, taxis, rubbish trucks, post office vans, delivery vans etc. etc. etc. all of which will have a massively, massively greater impact upon CO2 output and air quality levels than tiny, little Caterham. It's for companies like Caterham that I keep my fingers crossed for the viability of the availability of carbon neutral fuels so they can justify producing the cars they do in the face of blunt legislation.

I know there are posters on here who automatically scoff indignantly at any mention of e-fuels before tilting with relish at every straw man they can clutch at, but I like cars, so, in advance, fk you.
I was in agreement with you until towards the end there... Presumably the future Caterham EV will need a pretty small battery for low weight, but it'll take an age to pay back the embedded CO2 from production with the tiny miles. Even worse for something like the Evija, which will probably never be driven, has much larger everything and will just sit in an air conditioned garage tying up previous resources.
Last week the EU confirmed that there will be a ban on combustion engined cars from 2035. It was unclear until then whether there might be a place for hydrogen engine or efuels, but that's dead in Europe now