Refresher course or £1000 reward?
Discussion
I posted this on another thread, but would be interested in hearing opinions on periodic driver re-training or refresher courses.
To be honest, I don't think re-testing or re-training would make a great deal of difference to the accident rate. It sounds good in theory, but in practice it would just be another chore to many people. Do it then forget it!
I deffinately think we need a tougher driving test to start with though.
IMO, most accidents happen because people aren't concentrating on what they're doing. They may be competent drivers but fall foul of concentration lapses, or maybe some just don't cocentrate at all!
Can you teach someone to concentrate at all times? You can lead a horse to water...
As an example, I think HGV drivers are well trained professional drivers, but I've heard of many accidents involving HGV's, usually through nodding off at the wheel, possibly contributed to by the monotonous slow speeds they're limited to.
Also, highly trained and tested police drivers have accidents, albeit in less ordinary circumstances.
If I may think out loud for a moment... possibly if we could run a little test for one month, whereby any driver not involved in an accident could claim a reward of £1000 from the government, the accident rate for that month would plummet dramatically!
I know it's fiction and could never happen, but it would prove a point that actually making the effort to concentrate on the road when you're driving is what is needed!
People who don't usually care would find themselves taking their driving alot more seriously, taking an extra look at junctions, pulling back and not tail-gating, looking ahead further and reading the road etc. because they don't want to risk losing the 1K reward!
So, financial reward being unrealistic, how do you make people concentrate on driving and take more care to avoid collisions?
Training and courses may work on those who are already keen drivers, but not on the majority of A to B car users I feel.
To be honest, I don't think re-testing or re-training would make a great deal of difference to the accident rate. It sounds good in theory, but in practice it would just be another chore to many people. Do it then forget it!
I deffinately think we need a tougher driving test to start with though.
IMO, most accidents happen because people aren't concentrating on what they're doing. They may be competent drivers but fall foul of concentration lapses, or maybe some just don't cocentrate at all!
Can you teach someone to concentrate at all times? You can lead a horse to water...
As an example, I think HGV drivers are well trained professional drivers, but I've heard of many accidents involving HGV's, usually through nodding off at the wheel, possibly contributed to by the monotonous slow speeds they're limited to.
Also, highly trained and tested police drivers have accidents, albeit in less ordinary circumstances.
If I may think out loud for a moment... possibly if we could run a little test for one month, whereby any driver not involved in an accident could claim a reward of £1000 from the government, the accident rate for that month would plummet dramatically!
I know it's fiction and could never happen, but it would prove a point that actually making the effort to concentrate on the road when you're driving is what is needed!
People who don't usually care would find themselves taking their driving alot more seriously, taking an extra look at junctions, pulling back and not tail-gating, looking ahead further and reading the road etc. because they don't want to risk losing the 1K reward!
So, financial reward being unrealistic, how do you make people concentrate on driving and take more care to avoid collisions?
Training and courses may work on those who are already keen drivers, but not on the majority of A to B car users I feel.
Starting with the obvious:
Remove and ban all speed cameras and traffic calming measures.
Pass a law banning all cars that are not a sports or luxury type. This way, drivers will be more encouraged to look after their P&J and look where they’re going.
De-restrict all motorways and DCs for all vehicles; no-one will fall asleep from monotony.
Ban all pedestrians (well they are 1/3 of all fatalities anyway)
(well I am a PHER
)
I agree that you can’t teach people how to concentrate, but those who can’t could instead be screened out. The driving test should be made longer (I can’t believe it’s less than 1 hour) and more realistic (include motorway driving FFS).
Remove and ban all speed cameras and traffic calming measures.
Pass a law banning all cars that are not a sports or luxury type. This way, drivers will be more encouraged to look after their P&J and look where they’re going.
De-restrict all motorways and DCs for all vehicles; no-one will fall asleep from monotony.
Ban all pedestrians (well they are 1/3 of all fatalities anyway)
(well I am a PHER
) I agree that you can’t teach people how to concentrate, but those who can’t could instead be screened out. The driving test should be made longer (I can’t believe it’s less than 1 hour) and more realistic (include motorway driving FFS).
think retesting is a great idea...as long as said test is actually relevant and worthwhile. I dont think anyone feels the current driving test is serious enough in any way to qualify someone to merrily drive a ton+ of moving machinery at 70mph. It genuinely astonishes me that there arent miles more really serious accidents - a testament to car builders probably
wonder how many driving instructors actually spend time on 'driving awareness stuf and why it's so important' stuff like
why we indicate, who it affects, why it makes a difference
the effect rain has on a driving surface....
'what might happen' - binmen, horses, cyclists, people coming round blind bends on the wrong side of the road etc..
why cutting straight to the outside lane of a motorway from the slip road makes you a tosser
I think a lot of people dont relly THINK about driving - at least a re-test can help emphasise that it's a hard thing to do well and needs thought and care etc. etc.
that said - i agree with your other points...especially the cash prize incentive. god it would be GREAT to do that and see what happened
wonder how many driving instructors actually spend time on 'driving awareness stuf and why it's so important' stuff like
why we indicate, who it affects, why it makes a difference
the effect rain has on a driving surface....
'what might happen' - binmen, horses, cyclists, people coming round blind bends on the wrong side of the road etc..
why cutting straight to the outside lane of a motorway from the slip road makes you a tosser
I think a lot of people dont relly THINK about driving - at least a re-test can help emphasise that it's a hard thing to do well and needs thought and care etc. etc.
that said - i agree with your other points...especially the cash prize incentive. god it would be GREAT to do that and see what happened
deeps said:
If I may think out loud for a moment... possibly if we could run a little test for one month, whereby any driver not involved in an accident could claim a reward of £1000 from the government, the accident rate for that month would plummet dramatically!
I know it's fiction and could never happen, but it would prove a point that actually making the effort to concentrate on the road when you're driving is what is needed!
People who don't usually care would find themselves taking their driving alot more seriously, taking an extra look at junctions, pulling back and not tail-gating, looking ahead further and reading the road etc. because they don't want to risk losing the 1K reward!
So, financial reward being unrealistic, how do you make people concentrate on driving and take more care to avoid collisions?
Training and courses may work on those who are already keen drivers, but not on the majority of A to B car users I feel.
I'm sorry but I'm morally against rewarding people for what they should be doing anyway. Change all the airbags for a sodding great big spike, then you see people driving carefully.
deeps said:
If I may think out loud for a moment... possibly if we could run a little test for one month, whereby any driver not involved in an accident could claim a reward of £1000 from the government, the accident rate for that month would plummet dramatically!
I know it's fiction and could never happen,
Don't be too sure its called a 'no claim bonus' :-)
nightmare said:
think retesting is a great idea...as long as said test is actually relevant and worthwhile. I dont think anyone feels the current driving test is serious enough in any way to qualify someone to merrily drive a ton+ of moving machinery at 70mph. It genuinely astonishes me that there arent miles more really serious accidents - a testament to car builders probably
wonder how many driving instructors actually spend time on 'driving awareness stuf and why it's so important' stuff like
why we indicate, who it affects, why it makes a difference
the effect rain has on a driving surface....
'what might happen' - binmen, horses, cyclists, people coming round blind bends on the wrong side of the road etc..
why cutting straight to the outside lane of a motorway from the slip road makes you a tosser
I think a lot of people dont relly THINK about driving - at least a re-test can help emphasise that it's a hard thing to do well and needs thought and care etc. etc.
that said - i agree with your other points...especially the cash prize incentive. god it would be GREAT to do that and see what happened
What happens if you should happen to fail the re-test, cant drive to work, lose job, no money, cant pay mortgage, lose house, lose family, no this wouldnt work at all, good as it may sound.
What is it we are trying to achieve, though? Less collisions? Less deaths?
If so, how about a graded driving license so the more formal training experience you have (IAM, RoADA, RideDrive) etc, the more powerful vehicle you can drive (bhp/tonne).
At the same time we need a big investment in more Traffic Police and less emphasis on enforcement by speed camera.
If so, how about a graded driving license so the more formal training experience you have (IAM, RoADA, RideDrive) etc, the more powerful vehicle you can drive (bhp/tonne).
At the same time we need a big investment in more Traffic Police and less emphasis on enforcement by speed camera.
vipers said:
some unrealistic, but otherwise good stuff
What happens if you should happen to fail the re-test, cant drive to work, lose job, no money, cant pay mortgage, lose house, lose family, no this wouldnt work at all, good as it may sound.
Sorry Vipers, completely disagree. Fail the re-test, learn to frickin drive then.. Todays test isnt exactly rocket science, but does actually require that you understand why driving like a twonk is perhaps a bad thing and liable to keep you a virgin. Retests arent going to be IAM stuff, now or ever, so should be doable.
gfun said:
Don't be too sure its called a 'no claim bonus' :-)
Ahh, mine's 'full no claims' and 'protected' so there's not much incentive for me not to have an accident
Seriously, I think insurance to many people (if they have it) is considered a necessary evil, many people even claim deliberately so as to get their money back.
I've never claimed on mine and have had max discount for a few years. Trouble is that hasn't stopped the premium going up every year at renewal! (yes I do shop around and screw them down) So all in all not much incentive really.
randlemarcus said:
What happens if you should happen to fail the re-test, cant drive to work, lose job, no money, cant pay mortgage, lose house, lose family, no this wouldnt work at all, good as it may sound.
Sorry Vipers, completely disagree. Fail the re-test, learn to frickin drive then.. Todays test isnt exactly rocket science, but does actually require that you understand why driving like a twonk is perhaps a bad thing and liable to keep you a virgin. Retests arent going to be IAM stuff, now or ever, so should be doable.
I agree with Vipers. Knowing the ins and outs of how to pass a re-test doesn't make you a better driver or a worse one if you fail. It just means you know the bullshit of how to pass a test!
Taking any kind of test will not stop people from driving like 'twonks' if that's in their demeanour.
Best behaviour for the test, then back to normal.
Why is insurance so high for young people? Shouldn't they be the safest because they've freshly passed their test? No!
And what about when the examiners have a "quota" of fails to reach before the end of the month?
Some competent drivers might loose the right to drive through no real fault of their own.
If you are going to retest say every 5 years then give people 6 months to pass - you can't have a single pass you can drive:fail your'e banned.
Even MOT tests give you a month to get work done (if you have the first test done early enough), really dangerous vehicles get ticketed.
Russ
Some competent drivers might loose the right to drive through no real fault of their own.
If you are going to retest say every 5 years then give people 6 months to pass - you can't have a single pass you can drive:fail your'e banned.
Even MOT tests give you a month to get work done (if you have the first test done early enough), really dangerous vehicles get ticketed.
Russ
vipers said:
stuff
What happens if you should happen to fail the re-test, cant drive to work, lose job, no money, cant pay mortgage, lose house, lose family, no this wouldnt work at all, good as it may sound.
okay - I do understand that there needs to be a reality check, and what i've said runs into all sorts of problems but
I CANNOT BELIEVE YOUR REASONING!!!!!!
Driving should not be a RIGHT, it should be a privelege for those who PROVE they can be trusted. Drive to work? live close enough to f**king walk if you have no driving license. Seriously I am gobsmacked - did you really think about what you wrote? "Oh i dont care if little Jonny is incapable of driving and has had 14 serious RTAs killing half my family...at least he's still got a job the little poppet".
christ. What you wrote is half the reason there ARE so many accidents and so many die each year - because as far as they're concnerned 'everyone can drive, cant they'. Er no, they bloody cant and THAT'S what needs sorting out.
Do you think that before the car was invented no-one had a job?????
The other thing to consider is that a re-test doesn't necessarily have to be to the same standard as the DSA pass.
So someone takes their DSA test, drives for 5 years and then needs a re-test. Perhaps we should just focus on those aspects of people driving that are genuinely unsafe i.e. too fast for the conditions (not the speed limit), harsh braking, severe accleration, course steering, poor observation, etc..
Things like hands at 10-to-2, indicating at all times, etc.. could possibley be dispensed with.
Thoughts?
So someone takes their DSA test, drives for 5 years and then needs a re-test. Perhaps we should just focus on those aspects of people driving that are genuinely unsafe i.e. too fast for the conditions (not the speed limit), harsh braking, severe accleration, course steering, poor observation, etc..
Things like hands at 10-to-2, indicating at all times, etc.. could possibley be dispensed with.
Thoughts?
randlemarcus said:
nightmare said:
some unrealistic, but otherwise good stuff
What happens if you should happen to fail the re-test, cant drive to work, lose job, no money, cant pay mortgage, lose house, lose family, no this wouldnt work at all, good as it may sound.
Sorry Vipers, completely disagree. Fail the re-test, learn to frickin drive then.. Todays test isnt exactly rocket science, but does actually require that you understand why driving like a twonk is perhaps a bad thing and liable to keep you a virgin. Retests arent going to be IAM stuff, now or ever, so should be doable.
If passing the test isnt exactly rocket science, why is there so many around who appear to completly forgotton how to do it, re-test for certain convictions I agree with, ie dangerous driving and the such, but just routinely will never come in, look at the waiting list now for your first test?
volvos70t5 said:
So someone takes their DSA test, drives for 5 years and then needs a re-test.
The only reason I could see for a re-test would be if they had caused an accident, then re-test asap.
volvos70t5 said:
Perhaps we should just focus on those aspects of people driving that are genuinely unsafe i.e. too fast for the conditions (not the speed limit), harsh braking, severe accleration, course steering, poor observation, etc..
Things like hands at 10-to-2, indicating at all times, etc.. could possibley be dispensed with.
Thoughts?
If harsh braking and severe acceleration are genuinely unsafe, I should have been dead years ago!
Agreed poor observation could be improved with tuition.
deeps said:
If harsh braking and severe acceleration are genuinely unsafe, I should have been dead years ago!
Agreed poor observation could be improved with tuition.
OK, perhaps that was badly worded. What I mean to say was actions that *could* lead to a loss of control of a vehicle.
I'm well into maximum accelration but not if it ends up with me losing traction and/or leaving half my front tyres behind.
Not so I'm in the same postion full NCB & protected however I have 3 cars X 3 insurance.
Even if you have a protected NCB an accident will put your premium up about £100 = £300 x 3 years
Then consider that wounderful excess a min of £250 and max of £500 dependent which car I'm in.
I promise you its not worth having an accident :-)
Even if you have a protected NCB an accident will put your premium up about £100 = £300 x 3 years
Then consider that wounderful excess a min of £250 and max of £500 dependent which car I'm in.
I promise you its not worth having an accident :-)
deeps said:
Don't be too sure its called a 'no claim bonus' :-)
Ahh, mine's 'full no claims' and 'protected' so there's not much incentive for me not to have an accident
Seriously, I think insurance to many people (if they have it) is considered a necessary evil, many people even claim deliberately so as to get their money back.
I've never claimed on mine and have had max discount for a few years. Trouble is that hasn't stopped the premium going up every year at renewal! (yes I do shop around and screw them down) So all in all not much incentive really.
What about adapting the point system.
Points increase in time, and at a certain level a retest is required. The could be made to increase more quickly by committing driving offences, or more slowly by taking advanced driving training etc.
This would mean that those who drive like numpties are likely to be restested more often, and those who are actively trying to be better drivers don't need to be retested so often.
Points increase in time, and at a certain level a retest is required. The could be made to increase more quickly by committing driving offences, or more slowly by taking advanced driving training etc.
This would mean that those who drive like numpties are likely to be restested more often, and those who are actively trying to be better drivers don't need to be retested so often.
How about we have some sort of MPH bank account?
If, for instance, you're driving at 40 in a 50 limit for ten minutes, then you've saved up 10mph for your next 10 minute journey.
So when you're on the motorway and fancy doing 80mph for 10 minutes, you withdraw your 10mph and zoom away.
However, anyone caught going into the red and being overdrawn would be forced to use public transport for the same amount of overdrawn time.
Well, it works in my world....
If, for instance, you're driving at 40 in a 50 limit for ten minutes, then you've saved up 10mph for your next 10 minute journey.
So when you're on the motorway and fancy doing 80mph for 10 minutes, you withdraw your 10mph and zoom away.
However, anyone caught going into the red and being overdrawn would be forced to use public transport for the same amount of overdrawn time.
Well, it works in my world....
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