Last estate cars with hydraulic steering

[JohnG36]

Now then, looking to move into a estate car from a old m3, and would really like to go into a car that hasn't got electric steering. Would also consider a decent 4x4 (cayenne or similar). Is the 05 e90 bmw the newest estate car available with hydraulic steering. Would also like to hear thoughts if anyone owns a pleasant steering electric system. I often drive a 17 plate A6 and 18 plate passat and I'm really not a fan.
I'm aware this question has probably been asked a thousand times. Cheers.

[HelldogBE]

The BMW 5-series F-generation lasted up to 2017 model change with hydraulic steering on the xDrive models.

It's a slow rack though, pretty heavy and very isolated. It's communicative at the limit though and I quite like it but obviously it's not the purest driving experience due to 4*4.

[JohnG36]

Yeah sounds similar to the e90 system, maybe with less feel. Any older mercedes or audis with half decent steering? Or jags, ideally something that won't be massively corroded due to age as I live in North Scotland.

[trevalvole]

I'm pretty certain that the outgoing W205 Mercedes C63 has hydraulic steering and you may find that other full-fat AMGs have it too.

As for cooking Mercs, W211 E-Classes will have HPAS and I think some W204 C-Classes may have it too.

[samoht]

I think 2005 is too early for the EPAS switchover, I think most cars changed after 2010.

With the Mercs I think all W204s have HPAS and all W205s EPAS (2014). It looks like the E Class changed over at the mid-life facelift of the W212 (2013)
https://shop.westernpowersteering.co.uk/category-2...
https://shop.westernpowersteering.co.uk/category-2...

AFAIK it's a similar timeline with the BMWs and Audis.

[RoVoFob]

samoht said:

I think 2005 is too early for the EPAS switchover, I think most cars changed after 2010.

With the Mercs I think all W204s have HPAS and all W205s EPAS (2014). It looks like the E Class changed over at the mid-life facelift of the W212 (2013)
https://shop.westernpowersteering.co.uk/category-2...
https://shop.westernpowersteering.co.uk/category-2...

AFAIK it's a similar timeline with the BMWs and Audis.

The switchover year from hydraulic to electric steering with the BMW 1 Series was 2007. Think it was the 2008 facelift that saw the move to electric steering for the 3 Series, though the 335i kept hydraulic steering for a while longer I believe - same for the 135i. In terms of Audis, the A4/S4 acquired electric steering at the 2012 facelift.

When it comes to steering quality, there’s far more than just hydraulic = good, electric = bad. Quality of tyre/condition of tyre, tyre width/profile, wheel weight, wheel alignment, suspension setup and numerous other factors will all affect how pleasing the steering is.

I’ve had two A6s within the last year - an 06 Avant on 17s and air suspension and an 07 on S line suspension and 19s initially and now far lighter 18s - both of which have hydraulic steering as far as I know. Shifting from 15.4kg 19s on very low profile tyres to 11.7kg 18s with an inch more rubber between you and the road has made much more difference to the steering (plus the ride and other elements) than previously shifting from a 2007 1 Series with electric steering to a 2005 one with hydraulic steering - both of which were weighty, precise and satisfying (though the newer car had far lighter steering when parking).

Meanwhile, the 2019 M140i that I ran alongside my 2005 1 Series had vague and unpleasantly weighted electric steering. In contrast, I’ve been really quite impressed with the steering of my A6 now it’s on reasonably sized wheels and top notch tyres - it’s weighty enough to give good confidence and suit the size and heftiness of the car but makes the car feels surprisingly agile when carving through sweeping turns. The A6 is no sports car, but the improvement lightweight wheels and decent tyres have made, is huge.

Sticking with the A6/Passat examples you mentioned, I had a 2009 Passat R36 Estate between my two A6s. I thought it had beautifully weighted, surprisingly precise steering. I imagine you’re not considering old A6s and Passats if you’re used to driving 2017 and 2018 models..but they can steer very nicely.

Conclusion: electric/hydraulic is only one factor affecting the quality of steering a car offers. Good steering is one of the top factors on my car wish list and if I were in your position, I’d consider the best overall cars for the wish list and consider whether there’s any way to improve the steering if that’s a sticking point - such as better tyres, lighter wheels (even the ones I mentioned above were Audi wheels that were easy enough to find second-hand on Facebook) or a ‘fast road’ wheel alignment.

[trevalvole]

RoVoFob said:

Conclusion: electric/hydraulic is only one factor affecting the quality of steering a car offers. Good steering is one of the top factors on my car wish list and if I were in your position, I’d consider the best overall cars for the wish list and consider whether there’s any way to improve the steering if that’s a sticking point - such as better tyres, lighter wheels (even the ones I mentioned above were Audi wheels that were easy enough to find second-hand on Facebook) or a ‘fast road’ wheel alignment.

I suspect that good steering is a personal thing and what one person may think is good steering, another may not. After all, most general car purchasers seem quite happy with electric steering. In my view good steering can include:

1. Detailed feedback so the driver could map the surface of the road (enjoyable, but less important to me that 2)

2. Instant feedback of the steering load and hence tyre grip (most important to me)

3. Sufficient steering weight so that 1 & 2 can be communicated to the driver

4. Accuracy, steering ratio etc.

One thing I find with electric steering is a short-lived uncertainty as to what the car is doing on initial turn in. This isn't necessarily a surprise, as the steering will have to sense the wheel turning (and perhaps continuing to turn as adjustments are made), feed the signal to some digital electronics to work out the required assistance, then send a control signal to the motor controller to apply the required voltage to the motor and then the current will rise opposed by the inductance and finally torque will be applied to the steering. I suspect all this takes place in similar timescales to human reactions (the combination of sense, decide, act) and in longer timescales than just sensing. In my view the timescales for the assistance to come in is likely to corrupt the steering weighting on initial turn-in.