EBay car, 4wd doesn’t work

[TeaVR]

Morning all.

I bought a 4wd car on EBay. A day later it looks like the 4wd isn’t working. I’ve yet to get under the car, but I suspect it’s had a prop shaft delete.

Where do I stand legally? What would you do?

Is it a case of “Tough, you didn’t detect the issue, sold as seen?”

Thanks.

[normalbloke]

Freelander?

[Mammasaid]

Private or dealer sale?

[Its Just Adz]

Was it described as 4wd? I'd say you have a good case here. If you expect it to be a 4wd car then it should be.

[TeaVR]

Honda CRV, from a private seller

[SimonTheSailor]

All depends on how it was described, did you test drive it and say 'yep, that's good - I'll take it !' ?

[PugwasHDJ80]

What makes you think the 4wd system isn't working? Unless it has manual levers for low range and central diff lock it can be very hard to detect if a 4 wd system is working or not.

What vehicle is it, and und r what circumstances are you triggering the 4wd?

[normalbloke]

TeaVR said:

Honda CRV, from a private seller

Is it definitely the 4x4 version….?

[Caddyshack]

Isn’t the crv a bit like a haldex where it is a 4x4 only when it needs to be and even then it will only be 2wd at best as has open diffs.

It would seem odd for someone to actually remove something from a car.

[TeaVR]

I know the 4wd isn’t working as it gets stuck in a field with a gentle slope, just front wheels spin.

As to whether it’s a 4wd version, from the attached pic of rear wheel - I think it is. Also, I don’t think I’m the UK Homda sold a M3 in front wheel drive - or at least all 400 on Autotrader are 4wd.

,

[TeaVR]

Caddyshack said:

Isn’t the crv a bit like a haldex where it is a 4x4 only when it needs to be and even then it will only be 2wd at best as has open diffs.

It would seem odd for someone to actually remove something from a car.

Googling this, and it’s common for people to remove the prop shaft. Something to do with vibration / fuel efficiency. Also they wear out

[Caddyshack]

I think maybe you are over expecting what a crv can do, if the front wheels are spinning and you have rear drive shafts (as per pic) then you have 4wd.

Without locking diffs the unladen wheel will still spin - a Landrover defender it is not.

Road tyres are pretty useless on grass.

We had a friends BMW X5 wheel spinning on a gentle slope in our garden…my Rangie goes up it on tickover and my wife’s Mini Cooper goes up it and that is a 2wd road car.

I will do a google, maybe there is a proper 4wd switch?

[TeaVR]

Caddyshack said:

I think maybe you are over expecting what a crv can do, if the front wheels are spinning and you have rear drive shafts (as per pic) then you have 4wd.

Without locking diffs the unladen wheel will still spin - a Landrover defender it is not.

Road tyres are pretty useless on grass.

We had a friends BMW X5 wheel spinning on a gentle slope in our garden…my Rangie goes up it on tickover and my wife’s Mini Cooper goes up it and that is a 2wd road car.

I will do a google, maybe there is a proper 4wd switch?

I dig what you’re saying. I’ll try and get a proper look underneath later.

If it is working and that easily defeated, it’s ste!

It’s a Haldex type system - there isn’t a switch. My S3 has better bloody traction 😂

[Caddyshack]

Honda's Real Time Four Wheel Drive System. Normally front wheel drive vehicle. Torque transfer to rear axle via multi-plate clutch. Dual pump system is used to apply pressure to the clutch. It also disengages the clutch when braking to allow ABS work smoothly


So, based on above…at worst I expect the 4wd pump is not working…or maybe an abs sensor failed and not seeing the front slip.

First job would be to check the pump has fluid. I would then get an obd code reader and see if it throws any codes.


There is a very high chance that the 4wd is working but not in the full off road green laner way you are expecting.

[Caddyshack]

For most of the time, only the HR-V’s front wheels are driven; it’s only when they begin to lose grip that the Dual Pump system starts to send power to the rear wheels. This is achieved by a hydraulic torque-split system, consisting of a conventional front-wheel drive arrangement, complete with transfer case, a propeller shaft running the length of the vehicle and a Dual Pump system integrated with the rear differential. This is the heart of the system and comprises two hydraulic pumps, one driven by the front wheels via the prop shaft, the other by the rear wheels via the rear differential.

During normal levels of grip the front and rear wheels, and their respective pumps, turn at the same speed; hydraulic pressure circulates between the two pumps, but no pressure is generated. If the front wheels begin to lose traction and start to spin faster than those at the rear, the two pumps turn at different rates; hydraulic pressure proportional to the difference in their speeds is generated, which in turn opens a valve body and activates a mechanical, multi-plate clutch.

This clutch then connects the front prop shaft to the rear diff, which feeds precisely the correct amount of torque to the rear wheels to re-establish overall traction. The more the front wheels slip, the greater the torque fed to the rear wheels.

The Dual Pump arrangement weighs less than a conventional four-wheel drive system and demands little maintenance – just a fluid change at 72,000 miles and thereafter every 36,000 miles. Further advantage of this design is that it automatically disengages under braking, thereby allowing the ABS to operate.




It seems some have a 4wd button (pilot models), what is the age of your car and what is the exact model?

[Gary C]

I seem to remember there were some complaints about this 4wd system when the vehicles were new as they were acting as you describe with very little torque on the rear wheels

[Silvanus]

The CR-V I had was a great car, but the AWD system is terrible, might as well have been 2wd.

[Hugo Stiglitz]

Honda sold the CRV in 2WD for a while in the UK

[Gary C]

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/attention-all-hon...

interestingly mentions a software update to fix it but then goes on to highlight an answer from Honda that basically, the system cant put enough torque through the rear diff to move the car, so the front wheels will always need some significant grip

Edited by Gary C on Saturday 27th May 10:18

[Sheepshanks]

I recall reading somewhere that on older CRVs the AWD almost always packs up. Most people don’t notice.