Future car market (speculation?)

[Asura]

I was in search of a daily rwd light weight car like the 86, but some things came up and now, so I'm having to save for a mortgage.

Been wanting to get a nice rwd sports car, especially in my 20s. Bit gutted to put it off anymore now. I know I have an MR2 that I can keep, but as a daily driver, I'm not sure I like it given it's age. Where I can possibly get an ND MX5 with better safety technology. I don't feel like I get to experience much of its potential without going on track or knowing after I spun out. But at least I got to have the experience in owning one and I knew the regret of me passing up on owning one would've been greater. So far, I've just been driving my other shed of a car.

I still feel like i haven't given my self the full experience of owning an daily derivable rwd car. But I'm at a point where I can't really get these due to being out of budget as well as insurance on the 86 in particular being high.

I'm gutted since I waited and planned for years and worked hard to be in a good position, and I'm now afraid I might miss out on this experience even if I wait for a few years due to the petrol car production ban issue, making these car even more scarce. I mean other than BMW (which are heavy for what I want, and impossible to get an insurance on), what other affordable modern lightweight rwd car is out there?

I'll have to put up for the next few years, till I can see again, but what do you guys think how the car market will be like?

[samoht]

It sounds like you already have a nice rwd sports car, your MR2, but something is stopping you from enjoying it. So maybe either it needs geometry checking or something so it feels more confidence inspiring, and/or you might get benefit from some advanced driving training, so you can be confident driving it briskly and enjoying it.

(I got my first mid-engined car recently. It wasn't very confidence inspiring at first, but I took it to a good garage and they found the rear toe was _way_ out. It's much much better now the alignment is right).

IMO you'll do better removing whatever's stopping you enjoying the MR2 than worrying about some other 'better' car you can't currently afford, especially given how light and well-regarded the MR2 is.

The future used car market is a fairly simple projection of what's selling at the moment. It's basically MX-5s, GR86s, Boxster/Cayman, A110 in ascending order of cost. I think the MX-5 and Boxster will continue to provide a 'bedrock' of widely available somewhat affordable enthusiast cars at least for another ten years.

[Asura]

samoht said:

It sounds like you already have a nice rwd sports car, your MR2, but something is stopping you from enjoying it. So maybe either it needs geometry checking or something so it feels more confidence inspiring, and/or you might get benefit from some advanced driving training, so you can be confident driving it briskly and enjoying it.

(I got my first mid-engined car recently. It wasn't very confidence inspiring at first, but I took it to a good garage and they found the rear toe was _way_ out. It's much much better now the alignment is right).

IMO you'll do better removing whatever's stopping you enjoying the MR2 than worrying about some other 'better' car you can't currently afford, especially given how light and well-regarded the MR2 is.

The future used car market is a fairly simple projection of what's selling at the moment. It's basically MX-5s, GR86s, Boxster/Cayman, A110 in ascending order of cost. I think the MX-5 and Boxster will continue to provide a 'bedrock' of widely available somewhat affordable enthusiast cars at least for another ten years.

Don't get me wrong. I love the MR2. I think it's got things that does need sorting which I thought for a daily might be a bit too much and the prospect of dumping alot of money just to get it to the level I want is what's putting me off as well as realising for a daily, I kind of need the modern safety technology (or maybe I can invest in roll bar or half cages?). Firstly, its on pfl wheels with budget brand tyres. Both rear wings have rust on which needs replacing. It's on lowered springs, which I thought wasn't so bad until when I drove it for a day and I actually hate it (it thumps onto the road), it needs some tlc on the underside for surface rust etc. Whilst it's nice to have the top down, I definitly prefer having a hardtop over. Pretty much I'm looking at spending quite a bit of money to get the car up to spec. Even then, I don't know If I'll feel safe in it. I'm afraid in the sense that if i have passengers, I know the risk of driving this car, which is why I respect it and don't thrash it. But if an accident is to happen, I don't want to go through the guilt etc.

Then again, my shed is lightweight too so that can be deemed unsafe in an accident scenario.

I think, It's just the thought of having to do load of works etc into it to make it what it was supposed to be from factory is what's putting me off.

I might consider the prospect of keeping the MR2. (the insurance is just isn't so bad either)

[Asura]

Also when I do start the car, the exhaust does smoke a bit but goes once the cars fully warmed (guessing that's water condensation)? I've not seen any issues with the coolant etc to suggest head gasket failure.

[samoht]

With budget tyres and crashy lowering springs, I'm not surprised you don't feel confident driving it.

I'd think the question is whether it's better to replace the tyres and fit standard springs, or sell it and buy a stock car that might be in better condition perhaps, for £3k or so? You're probably better able to check a potential purchase now with the experience you have.


AFAIK the 'cheap rwd sportscar' market is basically the MR2, the MX-5 or the MGF, so in a sense you've perhaps already found the best budget sports car, just need to get it driving ok. The rust issues sound like they're not so urgent, main thing is to get it so you can appreciate how it's meant to drive.

[Asura]

samoht said:

With budget tyres and crashy lowering springs, I'm not surprised you don't feel confident driving it.

I'd think the question is whether it's better to replace the tyres and fit standard springs, or sell it and buy a stock car that might be in better condition perhaps, for £3k or so? You're probably better able to check a potential purchase now with the experience you have.


AFAIK the 'cheap rwd sportscar' market is basically the MR2, the MX-5 or the MGF, so in a sense you've perhaps already found the best budget sports car, just need to get it driving ok. The rust issues sound like they're not so urgent, main thing is to get it so you can appreciate how it's meant to drive.

Currently looking around to see any MR2s for sale. I've been looking at the MX5s, some appear to have good deals and what I want, until I check the mot history with rust on the arches etc.

[rotaryjam]

To be honest your car sounds like a dog and these are cheap cars, I really wouldn't be investing any money in to trying to make it better.

I would suggest you flog it and either a) get another that is in better condition and standard or b) get something else.

As for a) I had a standard car and loved but I definitely didn't find it very confidence inspiring at higher speeds, particularly on the motorway where it felt very floaty. So I'm not sure this is the ideal option for you.

b) as someone else said, you don't have loads of options but I think the perfect one for you is an MX5 NC, they feel more modern than your MR2 and the previous MX5 NA/NB as they feel more solid but also have stability control.

They are not quite as fun to drive but I feel like this is your best option as you can get them very cheap and they don't suffer rust as bad as earlier MX5s (though still buy carefully, they certainly do rust)

[ChrisH72]

A lot of people will disagree but I find it's just not worth getting too hung up on rwd, especially if it's a daily driver.

A few years ago I had both an mr2 roadster and a Celica T sport at the same time. I did enjoy the mr2 but really only used it as a weekend car where I could enjoy some back roads in the sunshine. The Celica was my daily and I much preferred it even though it was fwd.

I believe you can have just as much fun in a good fwd car like a hot hatch. It's a different experience but no less entertaining and it can also be more appropriate for year round daily use on our roads.

If I were you I'd get rid of the mr2 for now and look for a more modern lightweight hot hatch. Something like a Swift Sport 1.6 maybe. It'll be cheap to buy and run and you'll have fun every day. Then when you can afford buy a cheap roadster for the weekends. Best of both worlds.

[Chicken Chaser]

I'd partly agree on the RWD thing. I ran two MX5s in my 20s, they are good at sliding around roundabouts and lovely in the summer but there were times when I was finishing shifts in winter time and road conditions were really sketchy. I did end up pointing the wrong way once in the early hours and nothing was catching it, it just went.

Unless you're thinking of tracking it then I wouldn't discount just looking at a sorted hatch or FWD car.

[Asura]

rotaryjam said:

To be honest your car sounds like a dog and these are cheap cars, I really wouldn't be investing any money in to trying to make it better.

I would suggest you flog it and either a) get another that is in better condition and standard or b) get something else.

As for a) I had a standard car and loved but I definitely didn't find it very confidence inspiring at higher speeds, particularly on the motorway where it felt very floaty. So I'm not sure this is the ideal option for you.

b) as someone else said, you don't have loads of options but I think the perfect one for you is an MX5 NC, they feel more modern than your MR2 and the previous MX5 NA/NB as they feel more solid but also have stability control.

They are not quite as fun to drive but I feel like this is your best option as you can get them very cheap and they don't suffer rust as bad as earlier MX5s (though still buy carefully, they certainly do rust)

I was considering NCs but alot of the similar priced ones are rusted examples and they rust badly. I think I might just have to take it up the chin and keep my current shed and save up for a year or two once I get my situation sorted, and should be in a better position to get a better car then as a big long time deserved reward...

[Asura]

ChrisH72 said:

A lot of people will disagree but I find it's just not worth getting too hung up on rwd, especially if it's a daily driver.

A few years ago I had both an mr2 roadster and a Celica T sport at the same time. I did enjoy the mr2 but really only used it as a weekend car where I could enjoy some back roads in the sunshine. The Celica was my daily and I much preferred it even though it was fwd.

I believe you can have just as much fun in a good fwd car like a hot hatch. It's a different experience but no less entertaining and it can also be more appropriate for year round daily use on our roads.

If I were you I'd get rid of the mr2 for now and look for a more modern lightweight hot hatch. Something like a Swift Sport 1.6 maybe. It'll be cheap to buy and run and you'll have fun every day. Then when you can afford buy a cheap roadster for the weekends. Best of both worlds.

I kind of wanted the experience since I was always into JDM rwd cars SIlvia's, skylines etc but the market for these has sailed for me, so I thought it's the only chance I can to experience it to be honest. Don't get me wrong, I have also been looking for fwd cars (EP3 CTRs, Megane RS) but these are way too overpriced for what I want and the insurance is a bit of a stretch.

I'll look into swift sports, but then the argument comes in if I'm not that much into other cars than the one I specified, i'd rather just keep my aygo since it's cheap on everything and use the money saved from owning to save up for the car I've wanted?

Might just have to wait it out for a few years and keep the shed and use the money saved in a few years to get a gt86?

Edited by Asura on Sunday 11th June 11:04

[Asura]

Chicken Chaser said:

I'd partly agree on the RWD thing. I ran two MX5s in my 20s, they are good at sliding around roundabouts and lovely in the summer but there were times when I was finishing shifts in winter time and road conditions were really sketchy. I did end up pointing the wrong way once in the early hours and nothing was catching it, it just went.

Unless you're thinking of tracking it then I wouldn't discount just looking at a sorted hatch or FWD car.

Definitly not discounting it. I was looking into GTis etc but insurance on them was just too much, and for the prices I was looking at, just didn't make much sense.

But yeah, I'll try to look into something hot like a swift sport and see if I can get anything out of it.

[rotaryjam]

Asura said:

I was considering NCs but alot of the similar priced ones are rusted examples and they rust badly. I think I might just have to take it up the chin and keep my current shed and save up for a year or two once I get my situation sorted, and should be in a better position to get a better car then as a big long time deserved reward...

I wouldn't give up on an NC so easily, yes there are rusted ones but generally it's a lot easier to find one that isn't a rust box than the NB in particular.

With a bit of searching you should be able to get a decent enough example for £2k

[Asura]

rotaryjam said:

I wouldn't give up on an NC so easily, yes there are rusted ones but generally it's a lot easier to find one that isn't a rust box than the NB in particular.

With a bit of searching you should be able to get a decent enough example for £2k

Hmm, I will re-consider. I think the 1st gen of NCs had issues with the engines? Even then I'm guessing it won't be as bad as the 1zz?

[Asura]

What other hot hatch suzuki-swift sport like are there?

Is the swift sport just as cheap to run in comparison to the aygo? I would'nt mind it as long as I'm able to save near enough the same amount for the next better car as well as the insurance being good.

[LightningBlue]

Asura said:

What other hot hatch suzuki-swift sport like are there?

Is the swift sport just as cheap to run in comparison to the aygo? I would'nt mind it as long as I'm able to save near enough the same amount for the next better car as well as the insurance being good.

The Swift Sport is more warm than hot hatch. A Mini Cooper is equivalent and another level is the Cooper S - the latter has better performance but you’d have to check what insurance is like. There’s also the Ford Fiesta ST which would be cracking and I think the Zetec S is the warm version.

[ChrisH72]

I mentioned the Swift as a way of getting something more entertaining than the Aygo for not much money. 2-3k for a tidy mk1, maybe 5k plus for a mk2 although I haven't looked in a while.

I'm driving a mk7 ST3 at the moment and it's brilliant. It replaced a BMW 325i coupe which had plenty of PH characteristics like RWD, 6 cylinders, manual box etc. The Fiesta is way more fun to be honest.

I've looked into a lot of Jap cars but as you've noticed rust is a worry. Even the best and most expensive ep3 type r will have plenty of rust issues mentioned in its MOT history. And by the time you've forked out for the better Jap cars you may as well buy the GT86 which is at least a bit newer.

[ZX10R NIN]

samoht said:

With budget tyres and crashy lowering springs, I'm not surprised you don't feel confident driving it.

I'd think the question is whether it's better to replace the tyres and fit standard springs, or sell it and buy a stock car that might be in better condition perhaps, for £3k or so? You're probably better able to check a potential purchase now with the experience you have.


AFAIK the 'cheap rwd sportscar' market is basically the MR2, the MX-5 or the MGF, so in a sense you've perhaps already found the best budget sports car, just need to get it driving ok. The rust issues sound like they're not so urgent, main thing is to get it so you can appreciate how it's meant to drive.

Just for context lowering springs don't equal a crashy ride

[Mr Whippy]

ChrisH72 said:

I mentioned the Swift as a way of getting something more entertaining than the Aygo for not much money. 2-3k for a tidy mk1, maybe 5k plus for a mk2 although I haven't looked in a while.

I'm driving a mk7 ST3 at the moment and it's brilliant. It replaced a BMW 325i coupe which had plenty of PH characteristics like RWD, 6 cylinders, manual box etc. The Fiesta is way more fun to be honest.

I've looked into a lot of Jap cars but as you've noticed rust is a worry. Even the best and most expensive ep3 type r will have plenty of rust issues mentioned in its MOT history. And by the time you've forked out for the better Jap cars you may as well buy the GT86 which is at least a bit newer.

It all depends what you want, but those ST180 Fiestas (really 200bhp) are a hoot.
Plus they felt solid mechanically, and very sure footed and safe.


I’d wait 12 months as I think prices of the stuff you’re after will soften quite a bit.

There is a LOT of utter crap out there priced like mint examples.

[samoht]

AFAIK the Aygo (and C1 / 107 versions) are about the cheapest cars to run, so anything else will likely cost more.
(unless you get some rapidly-appreciating classic, but they tend to be a lot more money up front).

ZX10R NIN said:

Just for context lowering springs don't equal a crashy ride

I only described them as 'crashy' because OP said 'I actually hate it (it thumps onto the road)', I'm not sure if that means it rides poorly OR if the springs are actually so short it's either grounding out or hitting the bump stops abruptly in normal driving.

I concur that it is in general possible to have lowering springs that ride as well or better than stock, it just sounds like that isn't the case with this particular setup.