Home Insurance contents question - Outbuilding defintion
Discussion
Not sure if this is the right section to ask but here goes.
Unfortunately we had a severe garage fire at our home last week which has caused extensive damage.
We have a separate policy for Buildings Cover and another one for Contents.
The company who are dealing with the buildings have been superb and had people on site within a day.
Sadly the company dealing with the contents claim have been next to useless.
Their loss adjuster only attended our home yesterday, almost a full week after the fired damage occurred.
He spent less than 15 minutes looking at the damage in the garage and took no pictures or notes as far as we could tell.
Then as he was getting ready to leave he said, “ oh by the way, your garage is classed as an outbuilding, and the maximum claim for an outbuilding is £5000, so don’t bother listing the items damaged by the fire, I can just write you a cheque right now for the £5K”
We responded with, what the heck? We don’t believe that.
We asked him to go away and confirm the policy details and the level of cover, which he did by telephoning back 6 hours later, to confirm what he has already said, they class a garage as an outbuilding and therefore the maximum claim will be £5K.
We responded with a rejection of the offer in writing and asked for the matter to be escalated, we have done this in writing and via the telephone it have had zero response.
So back to our original question regarding the legal definition of an outbuilding.
Our house is a large detached property, with two single garages integrated into the main part of the building.
The garage access is through the kitchen utility via a door from the utility to the garage.
We believe that this therefore does not class our garage as an outbuilding as it is an integral part of the house.
Does anyone have any experience of claims of this type and policy definitions at all?
Thanks in advance guys.
Unfortunately we had a severe garage fire at our home last week which has caused extensive damage.
We have a separate policy for Buildings Cover and another one for Contents.
The company who are dealing with the buildings have been superb and had people on site within a day.
Sadly the company dealing with the contents claim have been next to useless.
Their loss adjuster only attended our home yesterday, almost a full week after the fired damage occurred.
He spent less than 15 minutes looking at the damage in the garage and took no pictures or notes as far as we could tell.
Then as he was getting ready to leave he said, “ oh by the way, your garage is classed as an outbuilding, and the maximum claim for an outbuilding is £5000, so don’t bother listing the items damaged by the fire, I can just write you a cheque right now for the £5K”
We responded with, what the heck? We don’t believe that.
We asked him to go away and confirm the policy details and the level of cover, which he did by telephoning back 6 hours later, to confirm what he has already said, they class a garage as an outbuilding and therefore the maximum claim will be £5K.
We responded with a rejection of the offer in writing and asked for the matter to be escalated, we have done this in writing and via the telephone it have had zero response.
So back to our original question regarding the legal definition of an outbuilding.
Our house is a large detached property, with two single garages integrated into the main part of the building.
The garage access is through the kitchen utility via a door from the utility to the garage.
We believe that this therefore does not class our garage as an outbuilding as it is an integral part of the house.
Does anyone have any experience of claims of this type and policy definitions at all?
Thanks in advance guys.
I can't comment on the interpretation for insurance purposes, but both Planning and Building Regulations think in terms of a 'building' being a single unit, regardless of subdivision for different uses.
Therefore if a structure is physically attached to the main part of the dwellinghouse, it forms part of the same 'building' (and, indeed, a terrace of houses or block of flats can comprise multiple dwellings within a single building). An outbuilding, by definition, would normally be an entirely separate structure (even if physically separated only by a matter of millimetres).
Therefore if a structure is physically attached to the main part of the dwellinghouse, it forms part of the same 'building' (and, indeed, a terrace of houses or block of flats can comprise multiple dwellings within a single building). An outbuilding, by definition, would normally be an entirely separate structure (even if physically separated only by a matter of millimetres).
I fear that you may struggle OP.
Insurers may have penned this limitation from the point of view of theft, you would not expect a shed or garage to be as secure as the main house. It is not that long ago when there was no cover on items in sheds etc.
If the insurance on outbuildings is limited to £5000 the fact that your garage is more integrated to the house than the usual (mine is the same by the way) really doesn't matter to insurers.
The loss adjuster doesn't sound the best but perhaps he assessed the situation from the start and knowing that his hands were tied.
Insurers may have penned this limitation from the point of view of theft, you would not expect a shed or garage to be as secure as the main house. It is not that long ago when there was no cover on items in sheds etc.
If the insurance on outbuildings is limited to £5000 the fact that your garage is more integrated to the house than the usual (mine is the same by the way) really doesn't matter to insurers.
The loss adjuster doesn't sound the best but perhaps he assessed the situation from the start and knowing that his hands were tied.
What do the T+Cs of the policy say? They will probably be pretty clear in their definitions, either describing an outbuilding as any separate building (in which case the garage is not an outbuilding), defining an outbuilding as any building with it's own entrance, or stating that a garage is described as an outbuilding whatever it's actual location. If it's the latter, then you may disagree and if that is the case will have to escalate, potentially as far as the ombudsman.
But read the T+Cs, and they will define an outbuilding.
But read the T+Cs, and they will define an outbuilding.
It isn't about a wider legal definition.There isn't one agreed insurance definition of an outbuilding.
You need to read the policy wording. Definitions appear within the first few pages.
I renewed a client's household policy yesterday. So that insurer's policy wording is sitting high up in my inbox. This insurer also restricts contents in outbuildings to £5k, but a garage isn't defined as an outbuilding. It's included within the definition of the 'home'. So in my client's case, if his garage suffered a fire, he wouldn't be subject to the arbitrary outbuildings limit.
TL:DR - check the wording.
(Though it's unlikely the Loss Adjuster will have got it wrong, sadly.)
You need to read the policy wording. Definitions appear within the first few pages.
I renewed a client's household policy yesterday. So that insurer's policy wording is sitting high up in my inbox. This insurer also restricts contents in outbuildings to £5k, but a garage isn't defined as an outbuilding. It's included within the definition of the 'home'. So in my client's case, if his garage suffered a fire, he wouldn't be subject to the arbitrary outbuildings limit.
TL:DR - check the wording.
(Though it's unlikely the Loss Adjuster will have got it wrong, sadly.)
K87 said:
I fear that you may struggle OP.
Insurers may have penned this limitation from the point of view of theft, you would not expect a shed or garage to be as secure as the main house. It is not that long ago when there was no cover on items in sheds etc.
If the insurance on outbuildings is limited to £5000 the fact that your garage is more integrated to the house than the usual (mine is the same by the way) really doesn't matter to insurers.
The loss adjuster doesn't sound the best but perhaps he assessed the situation from the start and knowing that his hands were tied.
But this isn't a question of what the insurer would like particular words to mean, regardless of whether they have good reason or not. It's a question of contract and what the OP could reasonably expect words to mean if they are not further defined in the contract. No one would reasonably define the word Outbuilding as excluding an integral garage.Insurers may have penned this limitation from the point of view of theft, you would not expect a shed or garage to be as secure as the main house. It is not that long ago when there was no cover on items in sheds etc.
If the insurance on outbuildings is limited to £5000 the fact that your garage is more integrated to the house than the usual (mine is the same by the way) really doesn't matter to insurers.
The loss adjuster doesn't sound the best but perhaps he assessed the situation from the start and knowing that his hands were tied.
Without there being clarification in the policy then I don't think the insurers can argue that the garage is an outbuilding. If there is clarification there then it's worth bearing mind that as a business to consumer contract the unfair terms and conditions regulations may also apply and that aspect of the contract may be so heavily weighted in favour of the insurer as to be unenforceable.
It sounds like a right pain in the arse for sure.
Sorry to hear about the fire.
As a separate policy it will be down to the contents insurance terms and conditions to dictate whether their contents insurance was applicable to the contents in the house and in any other defined areas ie a garage , whether attached or separate , and whether or not said structure has a lower sub limit applicable or not.
The LA is just doing his job according to the policy.
Whether an attached garage is considered an outbuilding on here is academic.
Personally I would say it’s a grey area but presumably not a one off situation for the Industry so will come back to those terms and conditions.
It doesn’t help your question but I’m slightly curious why you didn’t buy a combined policy - separate policies are relatively unusual ?
Roughly what would you estimate your garage contents loss at ?
As a separate policy it will be down to the contents insurance terms and conditions to dictate whether their contents insurance was applicable to the contents in the house and in any other defined areas ie a garage , whether attached or separate , and whether or not said structure has a lower sub limit applicable or not.
The LA is just doing his job according to the policy.
Whether an attached garage is considered an outbuilding on here is academic.
Personally I would say it’s a grey area but presumably not a one off situation for the Industry so will come back to those terms and conditions.
It doesn’t help your question but I’m slightly curious why you didn’t buy a combined policy - separate policies are relatively unusual ?
Roughly what would you estimate your garage contents loss at ?
Equus said:
I can't comment on the interpretation for insurance purposes, but both Planning and Building Regulations think in terms of a 'building' being a single unit, regardless of subdivision for different uses.
Therefore if a structure is physically attached to the main part of the dwellinghouse, it forms part of the same 'building' (and, indeed, a terrace of houses or block of flats can comprise multiple dwellings within a single building). An outbuilding, by definition, would normally be an entirely separate structure (even if physically separated only by a matter of millimetres).
Thanks bud, that was exactly what we thought.Therefore if a structure is physically attached to the main part of the dwellinghouse, it forms part of the same 'building' (and, indeed, a terrace of houses or block of flats can comprise multiple dwellings within a single building). An outbuilding, by definition, would normally be an entirely separate structure (even if physically separated only by a matter of millimetres).
We were thinking that the legal definition on an outbuilding is a building that is separate or detached from the main residence.
It looks like the issue is going to be around definitions and what the policy wording relates too.
Insurers provide coverage for the contents of the house.
Some insurers, perhaps most, provide cover as an extension for the contents of sheds, summer houses, garages, stables etc. You would reasonably expect that there is an upper limit on the extension because these outbuildings are not as secure as the house, generally.
The fact that the garage is a part of the house is not especially relevant, unlike a cellar for example, it is still a garage.
If a garage had been converted into a room with no car door being bricked up perhaps and access only through the house then you would be in a stronger position.
Some insurers, perhaps most, provide cover as an extension for the contents of sheds, summer houses, garages, stables etc. You would reasonably expect that there is an upper limit on the extension because these outbuildings are not as secure as the house, generally.
The fact that the garage is a part of the house is not especially relevant, unlike a cellar for example, it is still a garage.
If a garage had been converted into a room with no car door being bricked up perhaps and access only through the house then you would be in a stronger position.
Perhaps relevant to your claim, OP.
We had our detached, brick garage burgled in 2014. We had unlimited contents cover.
Insurance - who were about to pay out on the huge amount of stuff that was stolen - clocked this and my claim was knocked back to £2k, the max that could be paid for outbuilding contents.
I was told, at the time, that if my garage had been integral (as yours is) that the claim would have been settled in full. Integral = attached to main house. That was with LV=.
We had our detached, brick garage burgled in 2014. We had unlimited contents cover.
Insurance - who were about to pay out on the huge amount of stuff that was stolen - clocked this and my claim was knocked back to £2k, the max that could be paid for outbuilding contents.
I was told, at the time, that if my garage had been integral (as yours is) that the claim would have been settled in full. Integral = attached to main house. That was with LV=.
alscar said:
I’m slightly curious why you didn’t buy a combined policy - separate policies are relatively unusual ?
I do this because for my properties it’s far, far cheaper that way. I have some parameters which mean that the vast majority of insurers won’t touch me for a combined policy. But separately I can get a mainstream policy for unlimited buildings and unlimited contents no issue.The last time I bought a combined policy it was over £9000 p.a., and given one of my renewal quotes was 400% what I paid the same insurer the previous year I hate to imagine what it would be now!
Dog Star said:
Perhaps relevant to your claim, OP.
We had our detached, brick garage burgled in 2014. We had unlimited contents cover.
Insurance - who were about to pay out on the huge amount of stuff that was stolen - clocked this and my claim was knocked back to £2k, the max that could be paid for outbuilding contents.
I was told, at the time, that if my garage had been integral (as yours is) that the claim would have been settled in full. Integral = attached to main house. That was with LV=.
Hi Chap, thanks for much for this, it’s very interesting that some companies seem to class it as a different legal entity.We had our detached, brick garage burgled in 2014. We had unlimited contents cover.
Insurance - who were about to pay out on the huge amount of stuff that was stolen - clocked this and my claim was knocked back to £2k, the max that could be paid for outbuilding contents.
I was told, at the time, that if my garage had been integral (as yours is) that the claim would have been settled in full. Integral = attached to main house. That was with LV=.
And sorry to all yes I should have mentioned the two companies.
Our buildings cover is with Royal and Sun Alliance.
The contents cover is with Halifax.
Dog Star said:
Perhaps relevant to your claim, OP.
We had our detached, brick garage burgled in 2014. We had unlimited contents cover.
Insurance - who were about to pay out on the huge amount of stuff that was stolen - clocked this and my claim was knocked back to £2k, the max that could be paid for outbuilding contents.
I was told, at the time, that if my garage had been integral (as yours is) that the claim would have been settled in full. Integral = attached to main house. That was with LV=.
I have just downloaded and read the current LV buildings and contents policy, this may be a different wording than 2014.We had our detached, brick garage burgled in 2014. We had unlimited contents cover.
Insurance - who were about to pay out on the huge amount of stuff that was stolen - clocked this and my claim was knocked back to £2k, the max that could be paid for outbuilding contents.
I was told, at the time, that if my garage had been integral (as yours is) that the claim would have been settled in full. Integral = attached to main house. That was with LV=.
They cover contents at the home at the address in the schedule together with the contents in the outbuildings and garage.
They don't differentiate between an integral garage and free standing.
K87 said:
I have just downloaded and read the current LV buildings and contents policy, this may be a different wording than 2014.
They cover contents at the home at the address in the schedule together with the contents in the outbuildings and garage.
They don't differentiate between an integral garage and free standing.
That’s very annoying! I cannot tell you how depressing it is when they pull the old “ah, unfortunately your cover….” I lost thousands of pounds worth of tools which took years to replace, bit by bit. They cover contents at the home at the address in the schedule together with the contents in the outbuildings and garage.
They don't differentiate between an integral garage and free standing.
I might investigate them upon renewal next year - I’ve never had cover in excess of the current 2.5k per outbuilding that current insurers Aviva offer. Mrs DS would be happy too - currently all my cordless Makita stuff (there’s a lot) and more expensive items are stacked in the dining room where they’re covered. Ironically my garage is now a lot more secure than the house - it’s like a fortress.
nigelpugh7 said:
The contents cover is with Halifax.
Quick look through the T+C's as they are today, and they may have been different when you took out the policy, seems like it should all be covered. I would wait for Halifax to come back, as the loss adjustor might be passing a report on to them, and if they say £5k limit then be asking them where in the T+C's it states that is the limit. https://www.halifax.co.uk/assets/pdf/insurance/pdf...
Buildings
The house, bungalow, flat or maisonette at the
address shown on your policy schedule, including
its outbuildings such as garages, sheds, and
greenhouses
Contents
Household goods, personal belongings and valuables,
and home office equipment.
These must be owned by you, your family or any
domestic staff that live with you. This includes items
you or your famil
Home
The address we’ve agreed to insure as shown
on your policy schedule. This includes:
Your house, bungalow, flat or maisonette.
Your outbuildings.
Areas in the open within the boundaries.
For example, gardens, driveways, balconies
and patios.
These should all be for private residential use,
and only the business use that we’ve agreed.
.....
9. Theft
We’ll pay claims where your buildings or your contents are damaged because someone stole or tried to steal
from you or where your contents have been stolen.
We won’t pay claims for your contents:
– Whilst anyone other than you or your family are staying at your home. We’ll pay these claims if force and
violence was used to get into or out of the property.
– If someone steals from you by lying to you or your family. We’ll pay these claims if they only lied to get into
your home.
– If something’s stolen by a guest you or your family invited into your home.
Not sure if this is a relevant to your specific policy, but page 46 of their latest poilcy booket defines Outbuildings.
The first word is ‘Garages’.
https://www.halifax.co.uk/assets/pdf/insurance/pdf...
The first word is ‘Garages’.
https://www.halifax.co.uk/assets/pdf/insurance/pdf...
Ham_and_Jam said:
Not sure if this is a relevant to your specific policy, but page 46 of their latest poilcy booket defines Outbuildings.
The first word is ‘Garages’.
https://www.halifax.co.uk/assets/pdf/insurance/pdf...
frThe first word is ‘Garages’.
https://www.halifax.co.uk/assets/pdf/insurance/pdf...
Page 26 is also relevant.
This is all assuming that the op is not insured on a special wording.
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