LED headlights - driver's perspective

[Trikster]

Hoping I can explain this clearly

We've already got a couple of cars with LED headlights (Volvo & Mini) and they are great (though possibly not from an on-coming drivers perspective sometimes)

Mrs Trikster is looking to change her Mini so we test drove the Hyundai i20n one evening last week - highly impressive car that we both liked apart from one thing... the way the headlights illuminated the road ahead (fortunately in this case we did drive it in the dark)

The 'throw' seemed really short even after we stopped and adjusted the headlight level, but we couldn't work out exactly why - but it was to such a degree that we felt we couldn't continue with the purchase as both found it unnerving and even possibly dangerous

It was only once we got back into our car that it clicked what was different - it wasn't the main area that the headlights illuminated, this was probably the same, but that there was no illumination of anything beyond that in the i20n - in our current cars cats-eyes, the white lines etc are slightly illuminated beyond where the main lighting finishes meaning that you can see the direction the road is taking well beyond the 10-15m the headlights main area of light in situations where you can't use the main beam

Just wondering if anyone else has found this on other cars? it's something that has now put a different spin on test drives, we're both looking to purchase cars at the moment, in that we'd prefer to do them in the dark rather than daylight...

[pherlopolus]

We bought a VW transporter with aftermarket LED bulbs in it, they acted exactly like that. Very severe drop off and hot spots. The main beam was fine with the LED though. Swapped to decent halogens and it was much better.

Have to wonder if they put LED bulbs in a car actually designed for Halogen or if it’s just rubbish design.

[Missy Charm]

That might be a model specific problem. I distinctly recall driving a then brand new Hyundai something-or-other (fake Ford Focus) works pool car at night and finding the headlights awful. They created a harsh, ice-white pool of light that extended about ten feet in front of the car, throwing everything within it into sharp relief and illuminating almost nothing beyond. This would have been more than ten years ago, so they probably weren't LED lights but they were also not normal halogens either.

It might be model specific, but it may also be a product of having an extremely bright light source. It may be the case that the driver is dazzled, to a degree, by his or her own headlights. I've always found halogens preferable, especially in situations of genuine darkness.

[swisstoni]

I agree with the sharp cut-off, but I also think that because the illuminated area is so bright, the eye is less likely to register weaker light sources beyond the cut-off.

[PositronicRay]

swisstoni said:

I agree with the sharp cut-off, but I also think that because the illuminated area is so bright, the eye is less likely to register weaker light sources beyond the cut-off.

I think there's a lot to this. LEDs are good at turning night into day, what happens when you step out of a bright room into a dark garden?

[Trikster]

PositronicRay said:

I think there's a lot to this. LEDs are good at turning night into day, what happens when you step out of a bright room into a dark garden?

Somewhat agree but 2 of our others cars have LED headlights and suffer from this

[Pica-Pica]

My F30 BMW 335d has LED headlamps, as built, and from new. I have do not have the issues that OP describes. Ift hey are designed in correctly, I would not think there is an issue. Additionally, both the auto-headlights (that is, the switch from DRL to dipped beam at dusk), and the auto high-beam (the auto-switch from dipped to main) work fine as well. Granted, I had the headlamps reset within the first month of purchase because I was getting flashed too often - but no issues after that.

[Summit_Detailing]

It will be both brand and model specific.

Excellent headlamp lighting performance is one of my key criteria when buying cars.

I've experienced LED in Jaguar XJ and F-pace - in isolation they are decent with a reasonably smart auto high beam function. However talking to a friend who is an automotive exterior lighting engineer he says that the internals are pretty basic/off the shelf tech in comparison to other brands.

F31 BMW with LED's - better illumination than either Jag above with a less pronounced beam drop off but lazy auto high beam.

Multibeam LED in my current Mercedes CLS - absolutely amazing on all fronts - brilliant output & illumination, very clever auto high beam. Certainly the best lights I've been behind this side of a Bentley Conti GT or PDSL+ in a new Porsche.
Even my other half noticed how good the CLS lights are and she isn't a car person.

Cheers,

Chris

[dinkel]

2002 Alfa Spider here (916) and considering LED: regular lights are very poor...

[Workshy Fop]

Some of the Hyundai forums are reporting i20N and i30N headlights pointing too low and needing manual adjustment. Not driven mine at night yet so don’t know.

[riskyj]

pherlopolus said:

We bought a VW transporter with aftermarket LED bulbs in it, they acted exactly like that. Very severe drop off and hot spots. The main beam was fine with the LED though. Swapped to decent halogens and it was much better.

Have to wonder if they put LED bulbs in a car actually designed for Halogen or if it’s just rubbish design.

Do you mean LED bulbs in a halogen housing? If so it’s not surprising the performance was poor as there would have been nothing to properly focus the beam and the ‘bulbs’ themselves will be significantly lower power than a factory fit?

I have a Caravelle with factory LED lights and they are superb. (But were something like a £5k option!) in fact they’re so powerful I regularly get flashed by oncoming cars who assume I’m using my full beams (yes they are properly adjusted)

[Mikebentley]

Headlights on my MG4 EV are superb especially the auto main beam function.

[thecremeegg]

My i4 has pretty poor LED headlights, they had to be adjusted up to the max legal level by the dealer to get me a vaguely safe-feeling beam throw. My previous Merc had matrix LEDs that were incredible and made night driving a pleasure

[carlove]

Missy Charm said:

That might be a model specific problem. I distinctly recall driving a then brand new Hyundai something-or-other (fake Ford Focus) works pool car at night and finding the headlights awful. They created a harsh, ice-white pool of light that extended about ten feet in front of the car, throwing everything within it into sharp relief and illuminating almost nothing beyond. This would have been more than ten years ago, so they probably weren't LED lights but they were also not normal halogens either.

It might be model specific, but it may also be a product of having an extremely bright light source. It may be the case that the driver is dazzled, to a degree, by his or her own headlights. I've always found halogens preferable, especially in situations of genuine darkness.

From your description I'd guess you just had the front DRLs on, the i30(the focus equivalent) from 2011 had bright LED DRLs, but the dipped beams would be regular halogens.

I personally find LED headlights quite hit or miss, most are great but some are lacking, worst I've had was a Hyundai Ioniq(there's a pattern on this thread), it had a really odd beam pattern, and on the open road the light output and spread was poor, I'd actually say my Astra with halogens had better headlights.
On the other hand of hire car roulette I've had an E-Class with the fancy high beams that change their beam depending on traffic, they worked great and on dark empty roads it was genuinely like having daylight in front of you, best headlights I've ever used.

[119]

See now this is the weird thing, I have driven a c class with matrix leds and found the output average at best and the light colour a warmer k than some that are white, and sometimes too white.

Quite funky with the advanced high beam stuff though.

[Ham_and_Jam]

riskyj said:

in fact they’re so powerful I regularly get flashed by oncoming cars who assume I’m using my full beams (yes they are properly adjusted)

If you are regularly getting flashed for people thinking your dipped lights are on full beam then they aren’t set correctly. Your lights should affect or interfere in the vision of other oncoming drivers.

I have matrix LEDs, fantastic lights which light up the road ahead like daylight but also dance around oncoming cars. Haven’t had a single flash in 2.5 years.

[V88Dicky]

We have the same problem with our work fleet, Skoda Kodiaqs. Lovely bright headlights but total blackness about 100ft out, to the point where I think it’s quite dangerous.

[riskyj]

Ham_and_Jam said:

If you are regularly getting flashed for people thinking your dipped lights are on full beam then they aren’t set correctly. Your lights should affect or interfere in the vision of other oncoming drivers.

I have matrix LEDs, fantastic lights which light up the road ahead like daylight but also dance around oncoming cars. Haven’t had a single flash in 2.5 years.

These are not matrix. They are set correctly. Remember the Caravelle is a van, so by its nature the lights are positioned higher on the vehicle than a car’s. Perhaps that has something to do with it. I have had a similar problem with ongoing Nissan Quashquai, or maybe it’s Juke’s. The lights seem to dazzle even when dipped because they’re simply so bright.

[theboss]

Some people just don't seem to like bright headlights. Generally, drivers with candle-like visibility objecting to anything else. People driving behind good HID setups seem to magically become far more tolerant of them generally. The sooner all cars on the roads have decent modern factory-fitted LED setups the better.

I'm using 3 different setups on a daily basis (2 cars, 1 SUV) and they all get flashed from time to time.

The laser setup in the IX seems to attract people flashing before they are in sight, I can only suppose they see the verges very well illuminated, anticipate a blinding which doesn't materialise because the car immediately dips the beam around them, but they still see the verges brightly lit around them and assume I'm still on main even if their retinas don't agree.

[djgritt]

Workshy Fop said:

Some of the Hyundai forums are reporting i20N and i30N headlights pointing too low and needing manual adjustment. Not driven mine at night yet so don’t know.

Was going to say this too. Seen it commented by a few other owners now.

Our i20N seems to have a shorter throw than ideal but they are liveable - we live rurally and the car is used daily by the wife on mostly unlit A/B roads and she copes fine with it, probably just got used to it in the two years we’ve had it.

I’ll probably still tweak them up a little for this winter - they don’t appear to need much of an adjustment though, probably one full screw turn at most, on main beam they are fine at present.