Proace questions
Discussion
Hi.
I have a 2022 long wheel base 2 litre Proace. I am thinking of doing some oil changes myself. The dealership is saying I need to change oil every 2k because of oil dilution. They say I am not driving far enough. I have started taking the van down the motorway for 40 miles every 250 miles to see if that helps.
Anyhoo. Being a complete noob I was hoping you might be able to help me get the right bits?
What rating ramps do I need?
Do I need axel stands too?
What size trolley jack?
What size/type of sump plug socket do I need?
What's a decent oil to get and how much?
Is there a cheap but good OBD2 machine that can reset limp home mode,engine faults,dpf faults and start regens etc?
Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated 🙏
Thanks in advance
I have a 2022 long wheel base 2 litre Proace. I am thinking of doing some oil changes myself. The dealership is saying I need to change oil every 2k because of oil dilution. They say I am not driving far enough. I have started taking the van down the motorway for 40 miles every 250 miles to see if that helps.
Anyhoo. Being a complete noob I was hoping you might be able to help me get the right bits?
What rating ramps do I need?
Do I need axel stands too?
What size trolley jack?
What size/type of sump plug socket do I need?
What's a decent oil to get and how much?
Is there a cheap but good OBD2 machine that can reset limp home mode,engine faults,dpf faults and start regens etc?
Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated 🙏
Thanks in advance
Is the dilution due to a DPF issue ?
I have this with my Nissan Navara
every 2000/2500 miles it needs a regen and an oil change. I have politely and strongly pointed out to Nissan that when I was sold the vehicle the saleman knew that I did approx 7000 miles a year, he also knew I lived on the Isle of Wight (one of the counties where there is no motorway and its impossible to do 50 mph for 10 minutes legally / safely to trigger a regen) & that until I bought the vehicle I would not have had an opportunity to read the owners manual and discover the above.
I would suggest unless it was expressly mentioned and documented at the time of sale that you needed to do oil changes this regularly then its a warranty issue and should be paid for by Toyota.
Oh and be very careful are they suggesting this knowing you will do it yourself and invalidate your (I think) 10 year warranty ? tread carefully
I have this with my Nissan Navara
every 2000/2500 miles it needs a regen and an oil change. I have politely and strongly pointed out to Nissan that when I was sold the vehicle the saleman knew that I did approx 7000 miles a year, he also knew I lived on the Isle of Wight (one of the counties where there is no motorway and its impossible to do 50 mph for 10 minutes legally / safely to trigger a regen) & that until I bought the vehicle I would not have had an opportunity to read the owners manual and discover the above.
I would suggest unless it was expressly mentioned and documented at the time of sale that you needed to do oil changes this regularly then its a warranty issue and should be paid for by Toyota.
Oh and be very careful are they suggesting this knowing you will do it yourself and invalidate your (I think) 10 year warranty ? tread carefully
Paul-Proace said:
Hi.
I have a 2022 long wheel base 2 litre Proace. I am thinking of doing some oil changes myself. The dealership is saying I need to change oil every 2k because of oil dilution. They say I am not driving far enough. I have started taking the van down the motorway for 40 miles every 250 miles to see if that helps.
Anyhoo. Being a complete noob I was hoping you might be able to help me get the right bits?
What rating ramps do I need?
Do I need axel stands too?
What size trolley jack?
What size/type of sump plug socket do I need?
What's a decent oil to get and how much?
Is there a cheap but good OBD2 machine that can reset limp home mode,engine faults,dpf faults and start regens etc?
Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated ??
Thanks in advance
Welcome to PH. Lots,of questions there I have a 2022 long wheel base 2 litre Proace. I am thinking of doing some oil changes myself. The dealership is saying I need to change oil every 2k because of oil dilution. They say I am not driving far enough. I have started taking the van down the motorway for 40 miles every 250 miles to see if that helps.
Anyhoo. Being a complete noob I was hoping you might be able to help me get the right bits?
What rating ramps do I need?
Do I need axel stands too?
What size trolley jack?
What size/type of sump plug socket do I need?
What's a decent oil to get and how much?
Is there a cheap but good OBD2 machine that can reset limp home mode,engine faults,dpf faults and start regens etc?
Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated ??
Thanks in advance
Firstly you could drain the oil by using an oil extraction pump and a thin tube which fits down the dipstick hole, or you could drain it via the sump plug. First way is easier, second way gets more of the old oil out but is not as easy.
If you want to use the drain plug then decide on whether you are going to use ramps OR a Jack and axle stands, you don’t need both.
Plenty of cheap OBD2 readers on Amazon. I have a bluetooth one which links to my phone but is a bit flakey and a cabled one which always works (it is a MOTOPOWER MP69033). These cheap ones can clear engine management lights and read generic codes but a more expensive one will be needed to force regens.
Ziplobb said:
Is the dilution due to a DPF issue ?
I have this with my Nissan Navara
every 2000/2500 miles it needs a regen and an oil change. I have politely and strongly pointed out to Nissan that when I was sold the vehicle the saleman knew that I did approx 7000 miles a year, he also knew I lived on the Isle of Wight (one of the counties where there is no motorway and its impossible to do 50 mph for 10 minutes legally / safely to trigger a regen) & that until I bought the vehicle I would not have had an opportunity to read the owners manual and discover the above.
I would suggest unless it was expressly mentioned and documented at the time of sale that you needed to do oil changes this regularly then its a warranty issue and should be paid for by Toyota.
Oh and be very careful are they suggesting this knowing you will do it yourself and invalidate your (I think) 10 year warranty ? tread carefully
Hi, it is DPF related. I have this with my Nissan Navara
every 2000/2500 miles it needs a regen and an oil change. I have politely and strongly pointed out to Nissan that when I was sold the vehicle the saleman knew that I did approx 7000 miles a year, he also knew I lived on the Isle of Wight (one of the counties where there is no motorway and its impossible to do 50 mph for 10 minutes legally / safely to trigger a regen) & that until I bought the vehicle I would not have had an opportunity to read the owners manual and discover the above.
I would suggest unless it was expressly mentioned and documented at the time of sale that you needed to do oil changes this regularly then its a warranty issue and should be paid for by Toyota.
Oh and be very careful are they suggesting this knowing you will do it yourself and invalidate your (I think) 10 year warranty ? tread carefully
Because of my short journeys the DPF is unable to complete a regen. Apparently it tried 40 times to regen and failed.
They do not want to complete these oil changes under warranty. They are blaming my driving style (Slow and steady). I was given no warning that driving style could affect service intervals.
I am seeing if the motorway driving helps. I wonder how many people are having these oil changes because of their driving style?
I thought you could change your own oil if you used Toyota branded filter etc. ? Thanks for the warning. I might have to abort my plan and find a cheap service center.
Scrump said:
Paul-Proace said:
Hi.
I have a 2022 long wheel base 2 litre Proace. I am thinking of doing some oil changes myself. The dealership is saying I need to change oil every 2k because of oil dilution. They say I am not driving far enough. I have started taking the van down the motorway for 40 miles every 250 miles to see if that helps.
Anyhoo. Being a complete noob I was hoping you might be able to help me get the right bits?
What rating ramps do I need?
Do I need axel stands too?
What size trolley jack?
What size/type of sump plug socket do I need?
What's a decent oil to get and how much?
Is there a cheap but good OBD2 machine that can reset limp home mode,engine faults,dpf faults and start regens etc?
Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated ??
Thanks in advance
Welcome to PH. Lots,of questions there I have a 2022 long wheel base 2 litre Proace. I am thinking of doing some oil changes myself. The dealership is saying I need to change oil every 2k because of oil dilution. They say I am not driving far enough. I have started taking the van down the motorway for 40 miles every 250 miles to see if that helps.
Anyhoo. Being a complete noob I was hoping you might be able to help me get the right bits?
What rating ramps do I need?
Do I need axel stands too?
What size trolley jack?
What size/type of sump plug socket do I need?
What's a decent oil to get and how much?
Is there a cheap but good OBD2 machine that can reset limp home mode,engine faults,dpf faults and start regens etc?
Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated ??
Thanks in advance
Firstly you could drain the oil by using an oil extraction pump and a thin tube which fits down the dipstick hole, or you could drain it via the sump plug. First way is easier, second way gets more of the old oil out but is not as easy.
If you want to use the drain plug then decide on whether you are going to use ramps OR a Jack and axle stands, you don’t need both.
Plenty of cheap OBD2 readers on Amazon. I have a bluetooth one which links to my phone but is a bit flakey and a cabled one which always works (it is a MOTOPOWER MP69033). These cheap ones can clear engine management lights and read generic codes but a more expensive one will be needed to force regens.
I will have a look into extraction pumps now. Although a video i just watched shows the filter right at the bottom of the engine
I’d say your dealer is incapable of properly diagnosing the problem.
Driving for 40 miles on the motorway is much more than enough to regenerate.
40 failed regens isn’t your driving style, it’s a fault.
Take it to another dealer, or independent even. Anyone who knows what they are doing and not guessing whilst they run the warranty clock down.
Driving for 40 miles on the motorway is much more than enough to regenerate.
40 failed regens isn’t your driving style, it’s a fault.
Take it to another dealer, or independent even. Anyone who knows what they are doing and not guessing whilst they run the warranty clock down.
LordLoveLength said:
I’d say your dealer is incapable of properly diagnosing the problem.
Driving for 40 miles on the motorway is much more than enough to regenerate.
40 failed regens isn’t your driving style, it’s a fault.
Take it to another dealer, or independent even. Anyone who knows what they are doing and not guessing whilst they run the warranty clock down.
Sorry. I mean I have only just started doing a couple of 40 mile round trips per tank of fuel to try and stop the problem reoccurring 👍 It has a long warranty but they don't want to know. I spoke to Toyota head office and they said we just assumed you'd be up and down the motorway every day. Some assumption! I'm guessing another dealership will say the same. It's worth a shot though. Thanks. Driving for 40 miles on the motorway is much more than enough to regenerate.
40 failed regens isn’t your driving style, it’s a fault.
Take it to another dealer, or independent even. Anyone who knows what they are doing and not guessing whilst they run the warranty clock down.
Plenty of things will stop a regen - 40 failed regens still sounds faulty to me.
Differential pressure sensor may be faulty or the tubes blocked. May be an issue with the dpf temperature sensors.
Engine thermostat may be opening too early keeping the engine in and out of the correct operating temperature.
Could be an adblue fault, how much is in there?
All of these are easily tested with a decent obd reader. An elm327 dongle and phone app should allow you to see what’s not right on a test drive.
A regen should see dpf temperature rise to 600 deg c.
Differential pressure sensor may be faulty or the tubes blocked. May be an issue with the dpf temperature sensors.
Engine thermostat may be opening too early keeping the engine in and out of the correct operating temperature.
Could be an adblue fault, how much is in there?
All of these are easily tested with a decent obd reader. An elm327 dongle and phone app should allow you to see what’s not right on a test drive.
A regen should see dpf temperature rise to 600 deg c.
LordLoveLength said:
Plenty of things will stop a regen - 40 failed regens still sounds faulty to me.
Differential pressure sensor may be faulty or the tubes blocked. May be an issue with the dpf temperature sensors.
Engine thermostat may be opening too early keeping the engine in and out of the correct operating temperature.
Could be an adblue fault, how much is in there?
All of these are easily tested with a decent obd reader. An elm327 dongle and phone app should allow you to see what’s not right on a test drive.
A regen should see dpf temperature rise to 600 deg c.
Funnily enough. I never had an issue with the van before it had a product recall to do with the Adblue system. I was told via letter it was an ECU update. When I took it to the dealership they told me the adblue tank had to be removed. I had the van back a week then I had me first oil dilution limp home mode. They replaced the oil then 3k later the same thing happened. Not only did they replace the oil but they replaced the adblue injector because it was blocked. When i took back they had topped the adblue up to full. 1700 miles till no start. The funny thing is I've done about 600/700 miles since then and it still reads 1700 miles till no start. Is that good or bad? 😃Differential pressure sensor may be faulty or the tubes blocked. May be an issue with the dpf temperature sensors.
Engine thermostat may be opening too early keeping the engine in and out of the correct operating temperature.
Could be an adblue fault, how much is in there?
All of these are easily tested with a decent obd reader. An elm327 dongle and phone app should allow you to see what’s not right on a test drive.
A regen should see dpf temperature rise to 600 deg c.
I’m guessing at probably bad. It should be reading miles remaining better than that, but it could be blocked again, incorrectly fitted, not plugged in, software update not applied correctly, empty, faulty new injector etc etc.
Find another dealer. They are guessing and seem to want to wash their hands of it.
Not easy things to diagnose but they should do better than repeating oil changes. That’s a symptom not a cause.
And a full tank of adblue should be lasting longer than 1700 miles!
Find another dealer. They are guessing and seem to want to wash their hands of it.
Not easy things to diagnose but they should do better than repeating oil changes. That’s a symptom not a cause.
And a full tank of adblue should be lasting longer than 1700 miles!
Edited by LordLoveLength on Sunday 19th November 20:35
You absolutely should not be driving a diesel as your usage is not compatible with its needs. Sell it and buy something with a petrol engine.
I went through my customer list the other day... and family ...and friends ....and there was not one that should own a diesel! It's a specific engine to do a specific job, and driving 'steadily' around at <50mph or doing <20,000 miles a year is not that job.
I went through my customer list the other day... and family ...and friends ....and there was not one that should own a diesel! It's a specific engine to do a specific job, and driving 'steadily' around at <50mph or doing <20,000 miles a year is not that job.
As others have said/implied you have been sold/bought the wrong vehicle for the job that you are using it for.
If this was made clear by you when you bought it then I would say you need to pursue this avenue and seek recompense/redress to suit, rather than a warranty issue as the vehicle isn't likely to be at fault.
Having said that whether you will stand a chance of making it stick may well be another matter.
I am sure there will be some legal eagle out there who can answer this question better.
If this was made clear by you when you bought it then I would say you need to pursue this avenue and seek recompense/redress to suit, rather than a warranty issue as the vehicle isn't likely to be at fault.
Having said that whether you will stand a chance of making it stick may well be another matter.
I am sure there will be some legal eagle out there who can answer this question better.
OP says it worked fine before the adblue update / repair though?
Unless OP is doing short hop multi drop type driving, or driving such short distances that it never warms up fully, then it is likely that the dealer has messed up the repair.
There are 100s of thousands of diesel vehicles that get used in all sorts of ways without issues.
Some of the first DPF vehicles did have issues, but far more common was garages not understanding that blocked DPFs are much more likely to caused by a fault and the easy way out is to blame driving style and not get involved further.
I’d say the dealer hasn’t done the software update correctly. It is possible, on many vehicles, to get the software to not work properly by doing things in the wrong order, or trying to update before resetting things like oil dilution or adblue quantities. Sometimes manufacturers don’t make this clear, or technicians take short cuts.
Unless OP is doing short hop multi drop type driving, or driving such short distances that it never warms up fully, then it is likely that the dealer has messed up the repair.
There are 100s of thousands of diesel vehicles that get used in all sorts of ways without issues.
Some of the first DPF vehicles did have issues, but far more common was garages not understanding that blocked DPFs are much more likely to caused by a fault and the easy way out is to blame driving style and not get involved further.
I’d say the dealer hasn’t done the software update correctly. It is possible, on many vehicles, to get the software to not work properly by doing things in the wrong order, or trying to update before resetting things like oil dilution or adblue quantities. Sometimes manufacturers don’t make this clear, or technicians take short cuts.
If you really have to continue with these short mileage oil changes, then consider a Fumoto Quick Drain Valve.
You fit these really well made valves in place of the sump bung, after that an oil change is simple and mess free, given the underclearance of a van its possible you wouldn't need to raise the front at all for subsequent oil changes...though i have no idea where the oil filter is situated on one of these, so the front may need to go up on ramps every time to get access, not as you would need to change the filter every time at that rate of oil renewal.
https://www.quickvalve.co.uk/
Note, your van is not listed on their drop down list, but they will soon respond if you go via the enquiry link.
I have one of these on a Forester and used to have one on a previous Hilux, it takes a bit longer to drain the oil because the opening is reduced bore so perform draining with the engine hot...which you should anyway, but on the lus side you don't get hot oil over either you or the ground...Forester in particular has a wide bore sump bung and oil would gush out like a fire hose previously!
You fit these really well made valves in place of the sump bung, after that an oil change is simple and mess free, given the underclearance of a van its possible you wouldn't need to raise the front at all for subsequent oil changes...though i have no idea where the oil filter is situated on one of these, so the front may need to go up on ramps every time to get access, not as you would need to change the filter every time at that rate of oil renewal.
https://www.quickvalve.co.uk/
Note, your van is not listed on their drop down list, but they will soon respond if you go via the enquiry link.
I have one of these on a Forester and used to have one on a previous Hilux, it takes a bit longer to drain the oil because the opening is reduced bore so perform draining with the engine hot...which you should anyway, but on the lus side you don't get hot oil over either you or the ground...Forester in particular has a wide bore sump bung and oil would gush out like a fire hose previously!
Well first of all thank you all for your helpful replies.
For the last 3 months I have been taking the van for 2 separate trips of approximately 40 miles at moderate revs down the motorway every tank. I was advised by the dealership to drive it like I stole it. I have done just that. I have deliberately taken longer routes with faster roads to ensure the engine is hot. Sadly after 3000 miles the oil requires changing again. so I think we can rule out driving style. I've been driving diesels for decades and never had an issue with driving style before.
I have noticed that the cab now always smells of adblue. It never did before they replaced the adblue injector.
I spoke to the dealership today and they are taking it in and lending me a van. Apparently there is another recall outstanding. Fuel additive pump configuration ZFB05. Anyone know what that might be?
I'm going to order a ODB reader tonight. Thanks for the recommendations.
I was reading about a class action suit against Toyota in Australia. Something about faulty DPF systems. Toyota lost. Could this be a similar issue? I was chatting to another Proace owner this weekend and he has had limp home mode and new oil and filter at 6 thousand miles.
For the last 3 months I have been taking the van for 2 separate trips of approximately 40 miles at moderate revs down the motorway every tank. I was advised by the dealership to drive it like I stole it. I have done just that. I have deliberately taken longer routes with faster roads to ensure the engine is hot. Sadly after 3000 miles the oil requires changing again. so I think we can rule out driving style. I've been driving diesels for decades and never had an issue with driving style before.
I have noticed that the cab now always smells of adblue. It never did before they replaced the adblue injector.
I spoke to the dealership today and they are taking it in and lending me a van. Apparently there is another recall outstanding. Fuel additive pump configuration ZFB05. Anyone know what that might be?
I'm going to order a ODB reader tonight. Thanks for the recommendations.
I was reading about a class action suit against Toyota in Australia. Something about faulty DPF systems. Toyota lost. Could this be a similar issue? I was chatting to another Proace owner this weekend and he has had limp home mode and new oil and filter at 6 thousand miles.
Isn't the Proace a rebadged Citroen van?
Its not a Toyota or Hino product such as Hiace was as far as i'm aware.
Might be worth reading up in Citroen/Peugeot forums for the equivalent vehicle and see if this is a common issue with those, also canny owners might have found a method of triggering their own static regens, you might need some software to enable this unless there's something already built in to the dash menu.
Previous Citroen vans were also shared with Iveco/Fiat, so there's another avenue to explore.
There's thousands of various make vans on parcel delivery where the vehicle is stopping and starting hundreds of times a day, they might get a quick blast morning and evening going to and from base but if their DPF and adblue system were as fragile or faulty as the one you appear to have there would be broken down Amazon DHL etc vans everywhere you look and that isn't the case, maybe they have the system fitted i describe in the following paragraph.
Modern large trucks have driver controlled on board manual regen capability, the driver can cancel an automatic regen if it would be unsafe, for example coinciding with arrival at a customer's site, usually the regen will start again once normal running up to decent temperature has been reached, if things get too clogged the dashboard will warn the driver so he can stop somewhere safe and trigger a static regen which can take half an hour or so, so far i haven't needed to operate a static regen in hundreds of thousands of miles because our distances covered and full weight operation keep things ticketyboo, i have had to cancel the odd regen due to safety issues and (because the truck lets you know when a regen is happening) have carried on past my home base for a few miles to allow regen to complete.
Also trucks have various info available re the state of DPF itself on the dashboard, this can either be a simple ''regen not required'' or more detailed info as to how full the DPF is % wise.
There should be some software available, at a price of course so you can see this info and possibly perform your own regns when convenient...not sure if pirate copies of Techstream (circa £30) would allow this on your van seeing its Citroen connection, this might also be worth investigating via the Citroen/Peugoet van forums.
A lot of these issues could have been avoided if the drivers of all DPF equipped vehicles were informed a regen had started, allowing the driver to continue driving till the regen finished. OK it would be beyond some people to understand that concept and act accordingly but not everyone is a thick as the vehicle makers appear to assume.
Its not a Toyota or Hino product such as Hiace was as far as i'm aware.
Might be worth reading up in Citroen/Peugeot forums for the equivalent vehicle and see if this is a common issue with those, also canny owners might have found a method of triggering their own static regens, you might need some software to enable this unless there's something already built in to the dash menu.
Previous Citroen vans were also shared with Iveco/Fiat, so there's another avenue to explore.
There's thousands of various make vans on parcel delivery where the vehicle is stopping and starting hundreds of times a day, they might get a quick blast morning and evening going to and from base but if their DPF and adblue system were as fragile or faulty as the one you appear to have there would be broken down Amazon DHL etc vans everywhere you look and that isn't the case, maybe they have the system fitted i describe in the following paragraph.
Modern large trucks have driver controlled on board manual regen capability, the driver can cancel an automatic regen if it would be unsafe, for example coinciding with arrival at a customer's site, usually the regen will start again once normal running up to decent temperature has been reached, if things get too clogged the dashboard will warn the driver so he can stop somewhere safe and trigger a static regen which can take half an hour or so, so far i haven't needed to operate a static regen in hundreds of thousands of miles because our distances covered and full weight operation keep things ticketyboo, i have had to cancel the odd regen due to safety issues and (because the truck lets you know when a regen is happening) have carried on past my home base for a few miles to allow regen to complete.
Also trucks have various info available re the state of DPF itself on the dashboard, this can either be a simple ''regen not required'' or more detailed info as to how full the DPF is % wise.
There should be some software available, at a price of course so you can see this info and possibly perform your own regns when convenient...not sure if pirate copies of Techstream (circa £30) would allow this on your van seeing its Citroen connection, this might also be worth investigating via the Citroen/Peugoet van forums.
A lot of these issues could have been avoided if the drivers of all DPF equipped vehicles were informed a regen had started, allowing the driver to continue driving till the regen finished. OK it would be beyond some people to understand that concept and act accordingly but not everyone is a thick as the vehicle makers appear to assume.
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