How can people own Brachycephalic dogs?
Discussion
I know this topic has been done to death but currently sitting on the bus with a couple in front of me who have a Pug. They are probably on the way back from a walk. The dog is literally fighting for breath. It is quite distressing hearing it suffer. Why the hell would you buy such a dog?
You might just as well ask why do people buy any dog! All dogs have the potential to suffer from some life changing or life limiting conditions. I appreciate that brachycephalic dogs are a controversial choice, but under most circumstances they can lead a normal life and undoubtedly bring a lot of joy to their owners. We had a rescued pug in the family and he was an absolute delight and a really happy little chap. OK, we made allowances for his condition, being careful in the hotter months, having a cool mat/coat for him and not overly exerting him when it was too hot. Another couple we know had a pug, who was fine as a puppy, but got worse as he got older and eventually needed surgery to help improve his breathing.
We currently have a pug/French bulldog cross. He is currently lying by my side, snoring after his afternoon walk. When we told our vet what dog we had got, initially she was quite concerned. However, when she met him, her opinion changed as he does have a bit of a muzzle, so fewer breathing difficulties. In fact, in the four years he has been part of our family, there has only been one day when we have had to protect his breathing and that was due exclusively to the very high temperatures on that day.
Personally, we wouldn’t be without him. Both he and the aforementioned pug were absolutely delightful, valuable members of our family and we wouldn’t have changed either of them.
I’m sure you could find lots of reasons not to get most dogs, but it doesn’t stop people wanting them and loving them.
Each to their own.
We currently have a pug/French bulldog cross. He is currently lying by my side, snoring after his afternoon walk. When we told our vet what dog we had got, initially she was quite concerned. However, when she met him, her opinion changed as he does have a bit of a muzzle, so fewer breathing difficulties. In fact, in the four years he has been part of our family, there has only been one day when we have had to protect his breathing and that was due exclusively to the very high temperatures on that day.
Personally, we wouldn’t be without him. Both he and the aforementioned pug were absolutely delightful, valuable members of our family and we wouldn’t have changed either of them.
I’m sure you could find lots of reasons not to get most dogs, but it doesn’t stop people wanting them and loving them.
Each to their own.
Mr.Chips said:
You might just as well ask why do people buy any dog! All dogs have the potential to suffer from some life changing or life limiting conditions. I appreciate that brachycephalic dogs are a controversial choice, but under most circumstances they can lead a normal life and undoubtedly bring a lot of joy to their owners.
Sorry, but that’s b
ks. Owners of dogs that are bred for appearances that have resultant physiological compromise are selfish and perpetuating the discomfort of the poor things. To say it can happen to any dog is ridiculous and simply untrue. Badda said:
Mr.Chips said:
You might just as well ask why do people buy any dog! All dogs have the potential to suffer from some life changing or life limiting conditions. I appreciate that brachycephalic dogs are a controversial choice, but under most circumstances they can lead a normal life and undoubtedly bring a lot of joy to their owners.
Sorry, but that’s bks. Owners of dogs that are bred for appearances that have resultant physiological compromise are selfish and perpetuating the discomfort of the poor things. To say it can happen to any dog is ridiculous and simply untrue. I met a french bulldog in my local park last week that at first I thought was a cross, but the owner explained he was a more traditional french bulldog. Before all the breeding for tiny size and stubby noses. He seemed far more healthy looking than some of the frenchies I see around.
I wouldn't own any pedigree breed with known and highly likely medical issues, it's just cruel.
I wouldn't own any pedigree breed with known and highly likely medical issues, it's just cruel.
Mr.Chips said:
You might just as well ask why do people buy any dog! All dogs have the potential to suffer from some life changing or life limiting conditions. I appreciate that brachycephalic dogs are a controversial choice, but under most circumstances they can lead a normal life and undoubtedly bring a lot of joy to their owners. We had a rescued pug in the family and he was an absolute delight and a really happy little chap. OK, we made allowances for his condition, being careful in the hotter months, having a cool mat/coat for him and not overly exerting him when it was too hot. Another couple we know had a pug, who was fine as a puppy, but got worse as he got older and eventually needed surgery to help improve his breathing.
We currently have a pug/French bulldog cross. He is currently lying by my side, snoring after his afternoon walk. When we told our vet what dog we had got, initially she was quite concerned. However, when she met him, her opinion changed as he does have a bit of a muzzle, so fewer breathing difficulties. In fact, in the four years he has been part of our family, there has only been one day when we have had to protect his breathing and that was due exclusively to the very high temperatures on that day.
Personally, we wouldn’t be without him. Both he and the aforementioned pug were absolutely delightful, valuable members of our family and we wouldn’t have changed either of them.
I’m sure you could find lots of reasons not to get most dogs, but it doesn’t stop people wanting them and loving them.
Each to their own.
Apologies but that is such a stupid argument. In general every dog is great to own and people love them. What is so special about owning a dog we have deliberately bred to be handicapped and suffer? Humans that claim to love animals can be incredibly selfish.We currently have a pug/French bulldog cross. He is currently lying by my side, snoring after his afternoon walk. When we told our vet what dog we had got, initially she was quite concerned. However, when she met him, her opinion changed as he does have a bit of a muzzle, so fewer breathing difficulties. In fact, in the four years he has been part of our family, there has only been one day when we have had to protect his breathing and that was due exclusively to the very high temperatures on that day.
Personally, we wouldn’t be without him. Both he and the aforementioned pug were absolutely delightful, valuable members of our family and we wouldn’t have changed either of them.
I’m sure you could find lots of reasons not to get most dogs, but it doesn’t stop people wanting them and loving them.
Each to their own.
Boosted LS1 said:
Badda said:
Mr.Chips said:
You might just as well ask why do people buy any dog! All dogs have the potential to suffer from some life changing or life limiting conditions. I appreciate that brachycephalic dogs are a controversial choice, but under most circumstances they can lead a normal life and undoubtedly bring a lot of joy to their owners.
Sorry, but that’s bks. Owners of dogs that are bred for appearances that have resultant physiological compromise are selfish and perpetuating the discomfort of the poor things. To say it can happen to any dog is ridiculous and simply untrue. You only have to look at what a pug is 'supposed' to look like - a proper muzzle and decent leg length - to see the damage they've done. The pug 200 years ago was actually a handsome normal looking dog.
See also Alsatians.
Pugs were bred to sit on an overweight Chinese emperors lap, French bulldogs sat under sewing machine tables in Lace markets.
The dogs you see struggling sadly are being killed off early by the owners.
Sounds like this is another case of selfish owners wanting the big Sloane ranger walk in there latest Barbour and Hunter wellies over ensuring the dog was healthy.
The dogs you see struggling sadly are being killed off early by the owners.
Sounds like this is another case of selfish owners wanting the big Sloane ranger walk in there latest Barbour and Hunter wellies over ensuring the dog was healthy.
Apologies for having an opinion that some people disagree with!
My uncle bred German Shepherds. Are you saying that we shouldn’t breed them because some get hip displasia? What about all the bigger dog breeds, such as the Dogue de Bordeaux who can have shorter lifespans? My niece had a lovely Lakeland terrier, that developed a brain issue leading to idiopathic rage syndrome, should we stop breeding Lakeland terriers? No, of course not!
I never said that it was ideal that any dog exists with features or traits that impact on its health. Dogs with unhealthy traits exist, get over it! I’m sure that the vast majority of owners of such dogs love their dogs to bits. As I tried to point out, not all dogs with brachycephalic faces are unhealthy, but it is apparent from some of the more vitriolic comments that some of the people on here feel that they are able to condemn entire breeds to the history books, without any exception. Agreed, the KC are responsible for setting breed standards and this has lead to significant issues with some breeds. There are reasons why people get the dogs they do. Granted, the craze for the latest fashionable breed is reprehensible and often irresponsible, but please don’t lose sight of the fact that the majority of people who are dog lovers, love their dogs and treat them well.
I am not arrogant enough to imagine that my opinion is important, I was just trying to share it, but I don’t think I will bother in future.
My uncle bred German Shepherds. Are you saying that we shouldn’t breed them because some get hip displasia? What about all the bigger dog breeds, such as the Dogue de Bordeaux who can have shorter lifespans? My niece had a lovely Lakeland terrier, that developed a brain issue leading to idiopathic rage syndrome, should we stop breeding Lakeland terriers? No, of course not!
I never said that it was ideal that any dog exists with features or traits that impact on its health. Dogs with unhealthy traits exist, get over it! I’m sure that the vast majority of owners of such dogs love their dogs to bits. As I tried to point out, not all dogs with brachycephalic faces are unhealthy, but it is apparent from some of the more vitriolic comments that some of the people on here feel that they are able to condemn entire breeds to the history books, without any exception. Agreed, the KC are responsible for setting breed standards and this has lead to significant issues with some breeds. There are reasons why people get the dogs they do. Granted, the craze for the latest fashionable breed is reprehensible and often irresponsible, but please don’t lose sight of the fact that the majority of people who are dog lovers, love their dogs and treat them well.
I am not arrogant enough to imagine that my opinion is important, I was just trying to share it, but I don’t think I will bother in future.
Mr.Chips said:
Apologies for having an opinion that some people disagree with!
My uncle bred German Shepherds. Are you saying that we shouldn’t breed them because some get hip displasia? What about all the bigger dog breeds, such as the Dogue de Bordeaux who can have shorter lifespans? My niece had a lovely Lakeland terrier, that developed a brain issue leading to idiopathic rage syndrome, should we stop breeding Lakeland terriers? No, of course not!
I never said that it was ideal that any dog exists with features or traits that impact on its health. Dogs with unhealthy traits exist, get over it! I’m sure that the vast majority of owners of such dogs love their dogs to bits. As I tried to point out, not all dogs with brachycephalic faces are unhealthy, but it is apparent from some of the more vitriolic comments that some of the people on here feel that they are able to condemn entire breeds to the history books, without any exception. Agreed, the KC are responsible for setting breed standards and this has lead to significant issues with some breeds. There are reasons why people get the dogs they do. Granted, the craze for the latest fashionable breed is reprehensible and often irresponsible, but please don’t lose sight of the fact that the majority of people who are dog lovers, love their dogs and treat them well.
I am not arrogant enough to imagine that my opinion is important, I was just trying to share it, but I don’t think I will bother in future.
There are opinions and there are facts.My uncle bred German Shepherds. Are you saying that we shouldn’t breed them because some get hip displasia? What about all the bigger dog breeds, such as the Dogue de Bordeaux who can have shorter lifespans? My niece had a lovely Lakeland terrier, that developed a brain issue leading to idiopathic rage syndrome, should we stop breeding Lakeland terriers? No, of course not!
I never said that it was ideal that any dog exists with features or traits that impact on its health. Dogs with unhealthy traits exist, get over it! I’m sure that the vast majority of owners of such dogs love their dogs to bits. As I tried to point out, not all dogs with brachycephalic faces are unhealthy, but it is apparent from some of the more vitriolic comments that some of the people on here feel that they are able to condemn entire breeds to the history books, without any exception. Agreed, the KC are responsible for setting breed standards and this has lead to significant issues with some breeds. There are reasons why people get the dogs they do. Granted, the craze for the latest fashionable breed is reprehensible and often irresponsible, but please don’t lose sight of the fact that the majority of people who are dog lovers, love their dogs and treat them well.
I am not arrogant enough to imagine that my opinion is important, I was just trying to share it, but I don’t think I will bother in future.
The fact is that humans have bred disabled dogs “because they look cute”. I am less sure of the reason why they have ruined German Shepherds. I would with ban the breeds or only allow breeding if breeders specifically breed out the characteristics that make them disabled.
Mr.Chips said:
Apologies for having an opinion that some people disagree with!
My uncle bred German Shepherds. Are you saying that we shouldn’t breed them because some get hip displasia? What about all the bigger dog breeds, such as the Dogue de Bordeaux who can have shorter lifespans? My niece had a lovely Lakeland terrier, that developed a brain issue leading to idiopathic rage syndrome, should we stop breeding Lakeland terriers? No, of course not!
I never said that it was ideal that any dog exists with features or traits that impact on its health. Dogs with unhealthy traits exist, get over it! I’m sure that the vast majority of owners of such dogs love their dogs to bits. As I tried to point out, not all dogs with brachycephalic faces are unhealthy, but it is apparent from some of the more vitriolic comments that some of the people on here feel that they are able to condemn entire breeds to the history books, without any exception. Agreed, the KC are responsible for setting breed standards and this has lead to significant issues with some breeds. There are reasons why people get the dogs they do. Granted, the craze for the latest fashionable breed is reprehensible and often irresponsible, but please don’t lose sight of the fact that the majority of people who are dog lovers, love their dogs and treat them well.
I am not arrogant enough to imagine that my opinion is important, I was just trying to share it, but I don’t think I will bother in future.
We should breed healthy dogs that can enjoy long, fulfilling lives. It's the humane thing to do. My uncle bred German Shepherds. Are you saying that we shouldn’t breed them because some get hip displasia? What about all the bigger dog breeds, such as the Dogue de Bordeaux who can have shorter lifespans? My niece had a lovely Lakeland terrier, that developed a brain issue leading to idiopathic rage syndrome, should we stop breeding Lakeland terriers? No, of course not!
I never said that it was ideal that any dog exists with features or traits that impact on its health. Dogs with unhealthy traits exist, get over it! I’m sure that the vast majority of owners of such dogs love their dogs to bits. As I tried to point out, not all dogs with brachycephalic faces are unhealthy, but it is apparent from some of the more vitriolic comments that some of the people on here feel that they are able to condemn entire breeds to the history books, without any exception. Agreed, the KC are responsible for setting breed standards and this has lead to significant issues with some breeds. There are reasons why people get the dogs they do. Granted, the craze for the latest fashionable breed is reprehensible and often irresponsible, but please don’t lose sight of the fact that the majority of people who are dog lovers, love their dogs and treat them well.
I am not arrogant enough to imagine that my opinion is important, I was just trying to share it, but I don’t think I will bother in future.
The KC, and the breeders breeding to KC 'standards', are the antithesis of that goal.
So if your uncle was breeding Alsatians to the aesthetic standard where HD is more likely... Then yes, he shouldn't breed them.
I've had two pugs to date, with our last one going strong until 15 years old, so I will own up with some insight! The current one is nearly three and is surprisingly versatile. She is a fantastic dog in every regard and one of the biggest dog "characters" I've ever come across. She is in fantastic shape (much better than myself!), extremely active and never tires. Below was half way through a six mile walk and she was still pulling on the lead as we finished off. The other one we had wasn't as active but still was always up for long walks until she was around 13.
What I will say is that we rehomed both pugs, one at 7 years old and the latest at 4 months old, so I haven't actually gone and got them as outright puppies. I think the posters on this thread do have valid points on the breed and health aspects, and I think I would feel odd if I had got them directly from a breeder, but I wanted to offer that not all of them are as bad as people make out. I know my partner will want another pug to accompany the current one when our ancient labrador moves on...
A bigger issue than breathing is definitely their eyes in my experience. The lack of snouts leaves their eyes vunerable, both of mine lost their left eyes for this reason (and the reason we got the current one). Also their large eyes tend to develop ulcers etc which need careful attention.
What I will say is that we rehomed both pugs, one at 7 years old and the latest at 4 months old, so I haven't actually gone and got them as outright puppies. I think the posters on this thread do have valid points on the breed and health aspects, and I think I would feel odd if I had got them directly from a breeder, but I wanted to offer that not all of them are as bad as people make out. I know my partner will want another pug to accompany the current one when our ancient labrador moves on...
A bigger issue than breathing is definitely their eyes in my experience. The lack of snouts leaves their eyes vunerable, both of mine lost their left eyes for this reason (and the reason we got the current one). Also their large eyes tend to develop ulcers etc which need careful attention.
rob0r said:
I've had two pugs to date, with our last one going strong until 15 years old, so I will own up with some insight! The current one is nearly three and is surprisingly versatile. She is a fantastic dog in every regard and one of the biggest dog "characters" I've ever come across. She is in fantastic shape (much better than myself!), extremely active and never tires. Below was half way through a six mile walk and she was still pulling on the lead as we finished off. The other one we had wasn't as active but still was always up for long walks until she was around 13.
What I will say is that we rehomed both pugs, one at 7 years old and the latest at 4 months old, so I haven't actually gone and got them as outright puppies. I think the posters on this thread do have valid points on the breed and health aspects, and I think I would feel odd if I had got them directly from a breeder, but I wanted to offer that not all of them are as bad as people make out. I know my partner will want another pug to accompany the current one when our ancient labrador moves on...
A bigger issue than breathing is definitely their eyes in my experience. The lack of snouts leaves their eyes vunerable, both of mine lost their left eyes for this reason (and the reason we got the current one). Also their large eyes tend to develop ulcers etc which need careful attention.
He's a lovely little chap I do miss my boy. What I will say is that we rehomed both pugs, one at 7 years old and the latest at 4 months old, so I haven't actually gone and got them as outright puppies. I think the posters on this thread do have valid points on the breed and health aspects, and I think I would feel odd if I had got them directly from a breeder, but I wanted to offer that not all of them are as bad as people make out. I know my partner will want another pug to accompany the current one when our ancient labrador moves on...
A bigger issue than breathing is definitely their eyes in my experience. The lack of snouts leaves their eyes vunerable, both of mine lost their left eyes for this reason (and the reason we got the current one). Also their large eyes tend to develop ulcers etc which need careful attention.
It's weird how some pugs/frenchies have different stamina.
The eye thing wasn't a problem for us, the only issue was cherry eye that we got sorted as it looked horrendous.
Mr.Chips said:
Apologies for having an opinion that some people disagree with!
My uncle bred German Shepherds. Are you saying that we shouldn’t breed them because some get hip displasia? What about all the bigger dog breeds, such as the Dogue de Bordeaux who can have shorter lifespans? My niece had a lovely Lakeland terrier, that developed a brain issue leading to idiopathic rage syndrome, should we stop breeding Lakeland terriers? No, of course not!
I never said that it was ideal that any dog exists with features or traits that impact on its health. Dogs with unhealthy traits exist, get over it! I’m sure that the vast majority of owners of such dogs love their dogs to bits. As I tried to point out, not all dogs with brachycephalic faces are unhealthy, but it is apparent from some of the more vitriolic comments that some of the people on here feel that they are able to condemn entire breeds to the history books, without any exception. Agreed, the KC are responsible for setting breed standards and this has lead to significant issues with some breeds. There are reasons why people get the dogs they do. Granted, the craze for the latest fashionable breed is reprehensible and often irresponsible, but please don’t lose sight of the fact that the majority of people who are dog lovers, love their dogs and treat them well.
I am not arrogant enough to imagine that my opinion is important, I was just trying to share it, but I don’t think I will bother in future.
You're coming at this from an incredibly strange viewpoint.My uncle bred German Shepherds. Are you saying that we shouldn’t breed them because some get hip displasia? What about all the bigger dog breeds, such as the Dogue de Bordeaux who can have shorter lifespans? My niece had a lovely Lakeland terrier, that developed a brain issue leading to idiopathic rage syndrome, should we stop breeding Lakeland terriers? No, of course not!
I never said that it was ideal that any dog exists with features or traits that impact on its health. Dogs with unhealthy traits exist, get over it! I’m sure that the vast majority of owners of such dogs love their dogs to bits. As I tried to point out, not all dogs with brachycephalic faces are unhealthy, but it is apparent from some of the more vitriolic comments that some of the people on here feel that they are able to condemn entire breeds to the history books, without any exception. Agreed, the KC are responsible for setting breed standards and this has lead to significant issues with some breeds. There are reasons why people get the dogs they do. Granted, the craze for the latest fashionable breed is reprehensible and often irresponsible, but please don’t lose sight of the fact that the majority of people who are dog lovers, love their dogs and treat them well.
I am not arrogant enough to imagine that my opinion is important, I was just trying to share it, but I don’t think I will bother in future.
No one is saying 'don't breed pugs and let the breed die' - they're saying it's wrong to specifically and unnecessarily breed them to have physical traits which pretty much guarantee health issues.
That isn't appropriate, right or necessary to retain pugs as a breed. Same for German shepherds (and many others) - it is entirely possible to breed them so they do not have HD, yet the way the 'standard' has developed means they are now completely ignoring hip scoring and genetics (indeed the opposite) and specifically breeding them so they have hip issues.
There is zero justification for this.
I wouldn't own a Brachycephalic dog.
My girlfriend has a poodle. I've owned many dogs but never a poodle. It literally needs her to have its fur trimmed regularly not just because it looks cute, but because if she didn't it would suffer from Pseudocoprostasis. It literally would cease to be able to poop.
For me, a dog should be capable of being self-sufficient; i.e, if released into the wild for any reason, it would have the ability to survive. Some dog breeds are just incapable of that. They are simply vanity toys. Ok, that's harsh, since they are no doubt loved members of the Family, but, still...I wouldn't intentionally look to getting such a breed myself.
My girlfriend has a poodle. I've owned many dogs but never a poodle. It literally needs her to have its fur trimmed regularly not just because it looks cute, but because if she didn't it would suffer from Pseudocoprostasis. It literally would cease to be able to poop.
For me, a dog should be capable of being self-sufficient; i.e, if released into the wild for any reason, it would have the ability to survive. Some dog breeds are just incapable of that. They are simply vanity toys. Ok, that's harsh, since they are no doubt loved members of the Family, but, still...I wouldn't intentionally look to getting such a breed myself.
Gassing Station | All Creatures Great & Small | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff