Freehold - but no documentation
Discussion
We're in the process of selling the old family home after the death of my mum.
The house has been in their/our ownership for more than 50 years, so nothing is online with the land registry. We have the deeds, which show the house was lease hold. I remember (and so does my sister) the leasehold being bought by my parents, and a secured home improvement loan my mother took out in 2001 has the house listed as freehold. The least hold would have expired in the early 2000s, and no one has been asking for money, which to me confirms the freehold status.
It's very strange that there is no paperwork for this, as my mum still has paper work for a home improvement grant going back to the mid 80s as an example of the level of her record keeping (hoarding).
Does anyone know where I can get confirmation it's a freehold property? To be honest, I'm not sure what paperwork I'd expect to find.
We aren't at the stage where we have appointed a solicitor for any sale yet, so we don't yet have the option of asking them.
The house has been in their/our ownership for more than 50 years, so nothing is online with the land registry. We have the deeds, which show the house was lease hold. I remember (and so does my sister) the leasehold being bought by my parents, and a secured home improvement loan my mother took out in 2001 has the house listed as freehold. The least hold would have expired in the early 2000s, and no one has been asking for money, which to me confirms the freehold status.
It's very strange that there is no paperwork for this, as my mum still has paper work for a home improvement grant going back to the mid 80s as an example of the level of her record keeping (hoarding).
Does anyone know where I can get confirmation it's a freehold property? To be honest, I'm not sure what paperwork I'd expect to find.
We aren't at the stage where we have appointed a solicitor for any sale yet, so we don't yet have the option of asking them.
Motorman74 said:
ownership for more than 50 years, so nothing is online with the land registry.
What area of the country is this house?Motorman74 said:
We have the deeds, which show the house was lease hold.
It's odd you think you have "some of the deeds" but not "all the deeds". It's possible the documents you hold are only the irrelevant ones. Seems strange. Motorman74 said:
I remember (and so does my sister) the leasehold being bought by my parents
When was that?Motorman74 said:
a secured home improvement loan my mother took out in 2001 has the house listed as freehold.
So presumably that documentation is among such deeds that you say you hold. A secured loan will have required a legal charge over the property and that would usually mean the Title would be registered at the Land Registry and then the legal charge entered against that title. Either way, tracking down where and how that charge was registered may well be the key to answering your questions.Motorman74 said:
The lease hold would have expired in the early 2000s, and no one has been asking for money, which to me confirms the freehold status.
That's no real indication.Panamax said:
Motorman74 said:
ownership for more than 50 years, so nothing is online with the land registry.
What area of the country is this house?
What area of the country is this house?
Panamax said:
Motorman74 said:
We have the deeds, which show the house was lease hold.
It's odd you think you have "some of the deeds" but not "all the deeds". It's possible the documents you hold are only the irrelevant ones. Seems strange.
It's odd you think you have "some of the deeds" but not "all the deeds". It's possible the documents you hold are only the irrelevant ones. Seems strange.
Panamax said:
Motorman74 said:
I remember (and so does my sister) the leasehold being bought by my parents
When was that?
When was that?
Panamax said:
Motorman74 said:
a secured home improvement loan my mother took out in 2001 has the house listed as freehold.
So presumably that documentation is among such deeds that you say you hold. A secured loan will have required a legal charge over the property and that would usually mean the Title would be registered at the Land Registry and then the legal charge entered against that title. Either way, tracking down where and how that charge was registered may well be the key to answering your questions.blueg33 said:
If the lease was bought out in 2001, the freehold should have been registered then as registration was compulsory from the late 1990's
Has your solicitor done an "index map search"?
Check to see if any historic family solicitors are holding the deeds
Sorry - the leasehold purchase would have been before 1995 as it was before my Dad passed away.Has your solicitor done an "index map search"?
Check to see if any historic family solicitors are holding the deeds
We've not appointed a solicitor yet - My sister is calling one that has been recommended to us this week.
We don't really have a historic family solicitor - deeds were previously held by the Woolwich (who the mortgage was with), and the subsequent secured loan was also with the Woolwich - and changes were done using their legal offerings.
Did a solicitor deal with probate when your dad passed? If so track them down. The deeds are somewhere! usually held by a solicitor or as you say building society.
Woolwich are owned by Barclays, may be worth giving them a call/writing to them. The internet gives this number for the Woolwich Deed Store 0800 022 4022. You may need the account number for the loan.
Woolwich are owned by Barclays, may be worth giving them a call/writing to them. The internet gives this number for the Woolwich Deed Store 0800 022 4022. You may need the account number for the loan.
blueg33 said:
Did a solicitor deal with probate when your dad passed? If so track them down. The deeds are somewhere! usually held by a solicitor or as you say building society.
Woolwich are owned by Barclays, may be worth giving them a call/writing to them. The internet gives this number for the Woolwich Deed Store 0800 022 4022. You may need the account number for the loan.
No, a solicitor didn't - it was extremely straight forward - everything went to my mum. I sorted it in the Cardiff Probate office (when such things existed) having only popped in for some advice they helped me get it all filled in and it was processed as normal etc.Woolwich are owned by Barclays, may be worth giving them a call/writing to them. The internet gives this number for the Woolwich Deed Store 0800 022 4022. You may need the account number for the loan.
I'll speak to the Woolwich, and I'll also send off for a search of the Index Map as well.
Thanks for the help!
As this story continues to unfold it looks increasingly like a muddle of your own making. If there was a "simple probate" then it's far from obvious how a house managed to change hands without proper documentation. No wonder the estate agent you mentioned previously couldn't find any formal records.
My suggestion is that you engage a competent solicitor and get things done properly.
My suggestion is that you engage a competent solicitor and get things done properly.
If there was a loan in 2001 I would have thought there would have been a charge registered against the property which suggests it was registered.
The fact you have the deeds is because as soon as land is registered the original deeds become redundant.
I would do a map enquiry at the land registry, it will show if land is registered or not.
The fact you have the deeds is because as soon as land is registered the original deeds become redundant.
I would do a map enquiry at the land registry, it will show if land is registered or not.
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