Son buying older property. Is a structural survey best?
Discussion
Hi all
Son buying his first property. It’s an old mid terrace house in the north east of England. The couple he is buying it from have not spent anything on it in the four years they have lived there. The house looks tired and at the very least needs decoration throughout.
As this is an older property is it worth him paying for a full survey that in my limited understanding would spot things like damp issues?
This is a new area to me as I have only ever owned modern well looked after houses.
The estate agent has said a structural survey on a house costing 120,000 will cost around £4,000. This seems excessive and I’m wondering if they are trying to avoid him finding any major problems.
I have googled and can’t see clearly what type of survey covers what information.
Any insight and guidance appreciated.
Son buying his first property. It’s an old mid terrace house in the north east of England. The couple he is buying it from have not spent anything on it in the four years they have lived there. The house looks tired and at the very least needs decoration throughout.
As this is an older property is it worth him paying for a full survey that in my limited understanding would spot things like damp issues?
This is a new area to me as I have only ever owned modern well looked after houses.
The estate agent has said a structural survey on a house costing 120,000 will cost around £4,000. This seems excessive and I’m wondering if they are trying to avoid him finding any major problems.
I have googled and can’t see clearly what type of survey covers what information.
Any insight and guidance appreciated.
Yes to the question....The quote of £4k for a structural survey is IMO (as a surveyor) expensive and almost sounds like the person quoting the figure doesn't want them to get one done. I'd expect it to be more like £1k maximum (RICS find a surveyor will give you local ones to speak with). A Level 2/Condition Survey (the old Home Buyers equivalent) is ok but on an older house you want a decent/thorough report hence a structural one. If you are lucky with a L2 you might get a knowledgeable surveyor but I wouldn't recommend bolting it on to the mortgage inspection as you don't know who you'd get. It's easy with an older house to think save £s as the building survey won't be worth the £s but inevitably it'll highlight imminent maintenance or at worst a boiler that is life expired (say £3k) plus poor electrics and even the need to replace the roof covering etc. and can be used to negotiate a price reduction if necessary and also help identify the potential cause of faults/issues spotted.
A standard mortgage survey is probably a 30 minute quick walk through to ensure it's worth the agreed sale price and mortgagable whereas a structural survey would be a couple of hrs.
A standard mortgage survey is probably a 30 minute quick walk through to ensure it's worth the agreed sale price and mortgagable whereas a structural survey would be a couple of hrs.
4k is WAY out of line IMO
Last month I organised one on a potential purchase and paid £580 with a reputable local RICS company..
Level 3
(formerly known as a Full Structural or Building Survey)
See an example report here
Our most popular survey and suitable for older properties over 30 years old, made of un-conventional material, in bad repair or that have had a lot of work carried out. The report will identify any issues inside and outside the property and give advice on how to repair/ maintain along with estimated costs for repairs, which may help you with negotiations with the vendor.
It includes a market appraisal which will inform you if we agree with the purchase price based on comparable property sales nearby and the condition of the property (this is NOT a Red Book Valuation).
We also provide a complimentary interactive report for the property, showing title deeds, planning, EPC, Radon levels and much more including nearby sales and other local information.
Our fee £580
incl VAT
Level 2 Home Survey
Level 2
(formerly known as a Homebuyer Survey)
See an example report here
Suitable for newer properties in a reasonable condition. The inspection and report will identify any defects found inside and outside the property. Our Level 2 surveys do not include a market appraisal/valuation, remedial costs or a market appraisal.
Our fee £510
incl VAT
Last month I organised one on a potential purchase and paid £580 with a reputable local RICS company..
Level 3
(formerly known as a Full Structural or Building Survey)
See an example report here
Our most popular survey and suitable for older properties over 30 years old, made of un-conventional material, in bad repair or that have had a lot of work carried out. The report will identify any issues inside and outside the property and give advice on how to repair/ maintain along with estimated costs for repairs, which may help you with negotiations with the vendor.
It includes a market appraisal which will inform you if we agree with the purchase price based on comparable property sales nearby and the condition of the property (this is NOT a Red Book Valuation).
We also provide a complimentary interactive report for the property, showing title deeds, planning, EPC, Radon levels and much more including nearby sales and other local information.
Our fee £580
incl VAT
Level 2 Home Survey
Level 2
(formerly known as a Homebuyer Survey)
See an example report here
Suitable for newer properties in a reasonable condition. The inspection and report will identify any defects found inside and outside the property. Our Level 2 surveys do not include a market appraisal/valuation, remedial costs or a market appraisal.
Our fee £510
incl VAT
With older houses you need to be pragmatic.
Sometimes there are issues that a structural survey will pick up, other times there are issues hidden beneath the surface that won’t be visible/apparent unless you strip back the fabric of a building (which a surveyor won’t do). You can, reasonably, expect lots of caveats to any full structural report to that effect.
By way of example:
First property I bought has, according to the report, an under designed roof with visible unevenness. It had stood for over 100 years like that. As had the rest of the street. 20-25 years on it is still like that and hasn’t been reroofed. With that, and other things in the report, you’d have thought it was falling down… it didn’t and still hasn’t.
One of my current outbuildings (2-300 years old) is being worked on at the moment. Hidden behinds a load of cladding and inelegant 70’s modification serious rot has been found in a small section of one of the purlins. Wouldn’t have been apparent to a surveyor as he wouldn’t have been able to get access to it. Probably would have eventually caused a problem, but maybe not in he period I’ll own the property. Not a difficult fix with the roof off.
Another property (similar age), removing the plaster uncovered a historic opening that had been amateurishly filled with brick and probably wouldn’t have provided the support needed for the kitchen cabinets that are likely to be hung there. No big deal to fix. Various floor joists well and truly rotten. Again, wouldn’t have been seen without pulling the ceiling down or lifting the floor.
You have to remember that old properties have survived for long periods of time. Chances are they’ll usually survive longer, but have the potential to occasionally throw things at you that a survey probably won’t pick up. Things like boilers, electrics, etc are no different to more modern houses. Stuff gets old and needs replacing, so you just need to work out where you are on that replacement curve.
The main difference to be aware of is around energy efficiency. Expect thermal performance to be lower. Replacing/topping up loft insulation can be worthwhile and payback quickly.
The other obvious issue with a terrace is noise. If possible, make sure he gets at least one viewing in an evening when neighbours are likely to be home. Don’t request it on that basis, just try to engineer a reason (like he wants to take his Dad round but can’t get there inside office hours). From experience, elderly neighbours are the worst as the volume on the TV will be fully ramped up.
Sometimes there are issues that a structural survey will pick up, other times there are issues hidden beneath the surface that won’t be visible/apparent unless you strip back the fabric of a building (which a surveyor won’t do). You can, reasonably, expect lots of caveats to any full structural report to that effect.
By way of example:
First property I bought has, according to the report, an under designed roof with visible unevenness. It had stood for over 100 years like that. As had the rest of the street. 20-25 years on it is still like that and hasn’t been reroofed. With that, and other things in the report, you’d have thought it was falling down… it didn’t and still hasn’t.
One of my current outbuildings (2-300 years old) is being worked on at the moment. Hidden behinds a load of cladding and inelegant 70’s modification serious rot has been found in a small section of one of the purlins. Wouldn’t have been apparent to a surveyor as he wouldn’t have been able to get access to it. Probably would have eventually caused a problem, but maybe not in he period I’ll own the property. Not a difficult fix with the roof off.
Another property (similar age), removing the plaster uncovered a historic opening that had been amateurishly filled with brick and probably wouldn’t have provided the support needed for the kitchen cabinets that are likely to be hung there. No big deal to fix. Various floor joists well and truly rotten. Again, wouldn’t have been seen without pulling the ceiling down or lifting the floor.
You have to remember that old properties have survived for long periods of time. Chances are they’ll usually survive longer, but have the potential to occasionally throw things at you that a survey probably won’t pick up. Things like boilers, electrics, etc are no different to more modern houses. Stuff gets old and needs replacing, so you just need to work out where you are on that replacement curve.
The main difference to be aware of is around energy efficiency. Expect thermal performance to be lower. Replacing/topping up loft insulation can be worthwhile and payback quickly.
The other obvious issue with a terrace is noise. If possible, make sure he gets at least one viewing in an evening when neighbours are likely to be home. Don’t request it on that basis, just try to engineer a reason (like he wants to take his Dad round but can’t get there inside office hours). From experience, elderly neighbours are the worst as the volume on the TV will be fully ramped up.
In the grand scheme of things the cost of a structural survey isn't very much. £4k is mad, I had one on a property a bit more expensive and it was £1k which was fairly average across the surveyors I spoke to.
But they will highlight everything so don't be too shocked. It's an old house and will not be perfect so the survey will read all doom and gloom, read between the lines!
But they will highlight everything so don't be too shocked. It's an old house and will not be perfect so the survey will read all doom and gloom, read between the lines!
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