RE: 600hp Jeep Wagoneer S officially unveiled
Friday 31st May 2024
600hp Jeep Wagoneer S officially unveiled
Jeep's first global EV promises 0-62mph in 3.4 seconds, more than 300 miles range and 45 inches of screens...
The massive electric SUV isn’t going anywhere. You only need to look at the amount of BMW iXs and Audi e-trons on the road for proof of that. The Kia EV9 appears off to a roaring start. An electric Range Rover is inbound, as is a Volvo to rival it. Even Lotus felt the need for one. Global demand for big, battery-powered cars is prompting more manufacturers than ever expected to jump on the bandwagon; next up is Jeep, with the new Wagoneer S.
A Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer have been on sale in certain markets for a couple of years now, with V8 power where and when allowed or else the Hurricane turbo straight-six. The Wagoneer S is something very different, however, to be sold across the world as Jeep’s first global EV and built on a different platform to the combustion cars. This is underpinned by the STLA Large architecture that’s EV-specific and is also the foundation for cars like the new Dodge Charger and electric Alfa Stelvio.
The numbers are… big. Jeep claims 600hp and more than 590lb ft from the 100kWh, dual-motor Wagoneer S, meaning 0-62mph in 3.4 seconds. More than 300 miles from a charge is claimed, and an all-being-well 28 minutes is claimed for a 5-80 per cent DC rapid charger. (Like the Charger, the Jeep is a 400-volt system. The Alfa will be the first to upgrade to 800.) There aren’t efficiency stats yet, though those estimates put it in the region of 3mi/kWh - helped along by a drag co-efficient of just 0.29, making it the most aerodynamic Jeep ever - and expect max charge capacity to mirror the 183kW of the Dodge.
The numbers are no less punchy inside. There’s a 19-speaker McIntosh sound system, for example, with a 1,160-watt amp and 12-inch sub to make those onboard ‘feel like they’re in the recording studio with their favourite artists.’ Auto, Sport, Eco, Snow and Sand drive modes for the Selec-Terrain system ought to keep the Wagoneer moving when the going gets tough. With the 12.3-inch driver’s dials, infotainment screen of the same size and 10.25-inch passenger display - said to be a class-exclusive - there are 45 inches of screens in a Wagoneer S. The kids will love it. Jeep suggests the new model continues the pioneering spirit of the original, ‘63 Wagoneer, continuing to ‘push boundaries and evolve the iconic Jeep brand with a new embrace of technology, luxury and innovation.’ This means there are black ceramic-coated aluminium, electric door releases and sustainable materials. Can’t be an EV SUV without vegan leather and recycled carpet.
Certainly, there’ll be no mistaking the Wagoneer S for anything other than a Jeep outside, even without a burbling V8 soundtrack. The seven-slot grille is repurposed for lighting instead of cooling and the silhouette - if tweaked for aero with flush door handles and new spoilers - is recognisably Jeep. Just.
“The launch of the all-electric Jeep Wagoneer S marks a new chapter in the storied history of the Jeep brand,” said Antonio Filosa, Jeep CEO. “Building upon nearly a century of innovation and design, this first global BEV will introduce a whole new generation of owners to an experience that is distinctly Jeep and 100% electric in every way. With new energy in the Jeep vehicle lineup, ranging from EV to V8, customers have never had more freedom to choose their own adventure.” Even with smaller electrified Jeeps in the lineup, this feels like a big step for the brand. That being said, as so many rival manufacturers have demonstrated, an SUV range isn’t really complete now without a battery-electric one. On sale in the US from the second half of the year, the Wagoneer S will be available more widely - including in Europe - from 2025.
Discussion
EV's are supposed to be environmentally sustainable, I just don't get how a 600bhp, 2,571 kilo, oversized car that does 0-60 in 3 seconds is relevant to anyone, any use case or any cause. Can't wait for this fad to be over and a return to 'right' sized cars that are light, economical, sporty, usable, sustainable & relevant.
Bispal said:
EV's are supposed to be environmentally sustainable, I just don't get how a 600bhp, 2,571 kilo, oversized car that does 0-60 in 3 seconds is relevant to anyone, any use case or any cause. Can't wait for this fad to be over and a return to 'right' sized cars that are light, economical, sporty, usable, sustainable & relevant.
My thoughts exactly 
Bispal said:
EV's are supposed to be environmentally sustainable, I just don't get how a 600bhp, 2,571 kilo, oversized car that does 0-60 in 3 seconds is relevant to anyone, any use case or any cause. Can't wait for this fad to be over and a return to 'right' sized cars that are light, economical, sporty, usable, sustainable & relevant.
...because there are only EV's like this which exist
Or, did you miss the large number of overweight, oversized SUV's , with massive petrol/diesel engines since about 1998? [The latest being the £200k 2.8 ton, 600bhp, petrol powered Range Rover SV]
The EV equivalents of these are using much less energy to get around.
e.g. A 2.5 ton, 900bhp Lotus Eletre EV SUV is averaging over 80 MPGe in real world use. Compared to the 16MPG average of the RR SV's, Lambo Urus, Porsche Cayenne Turbo's of this world. There is your 'sustainable' improvement answer !
I thought Pistonheads was a knowledgeable community ! Turns out many are just anti-EV because .....
Edited by SDK on Friday 31st May 08:57
Bispal said:
EV's are supposed to be environmentally sustainable, I just don't get how a 600bhp, 2,571 kilo, oversized car that does 0-60 in 3 seconds is relevant to anyone, any use case or any cause. Can't wait for this fad to be over and a return to 'right' sized cars that are light, economical, sporty, usable, sustainable & relevant.
Timing.A large ICE SUV has a lifetime carbon footprint nigh on 100 tons.
An average ICE car is closer to 50 tons.
The EV equivalents for UK EVs are currently about 30-40 tons (large SUV) and 15-20 tons (average size car).
It's still early days in the transition, the big expensive cars were always going to be first.
If you are saying that SUV drivers should be encouraged to migrate to average sized cars, that's a different thing altogether.
Look at the footprint numbers above, the EV powertrain actually makes the choice of SUV far less environmentally damaging on a per vehicle basis.
If anything, large SUV drivers are exactly the people who we should be encouraging to make the switch early.
Adding power to large EVs comes at little extra expense and, from an economy perspective, unless it is accessed, it doesn't make much difference to energy efficiency under normal driving conditions.
This is completely the opposite to a car with an engine, where adding capacity and cylinders to increase peak power and or smoothness will permanently increase fuel consumption under normal driving conditions.
You've also singled-out 'weight' as one of the 'problems'.
Again, look at the carbon footprint numbers. Weight has far less impact on a car with a motor and regenerative braking that it does on one with an engine.
Different design rules apply for electric powertrains, and generally, whatever mass penalty the EV suffers from it offsets this by being significantly slipperier through the air than its ICE counterpart.
This is by virtue of not having to remove enormous amounts of waste heat from the engine, or heat from the friction brakes.
can't remember said:
I've thought for years that we were being prepared for our EV future by ICE cars getting unreasonably large and heavy. Imagine all the effort that has gone into the weight reduction and aerodynamics of EVs going into ICE cars a decade ago. Ah well, too late now.
The previous Wagoneer has a 101 litre fuel tank.That means it caries 900 kWh of energy when full.
It gets about 450 miles out of that, or 0.5 miles per kWh.
The new one carries 100 kWh of energy, but gets up to 300 miles.
3 miles per kWh vs 0.5 miles per kWh.
6 times further per unit of energy...
120 mpg vs 20 mpg.
Sure, in winter it will drop.
It's still going to be massively higher though.
And yes, I know electricity doesn't grow on trees, but then neither does petrol.
Whatever fossil fuel energy is consumed to charge this beast using UK electricity, you can be absolutely certain that the same amount of fossil fuel energy was used to just extract and refine the petrol for the ICE variant.
Do the same comparison in a decade and it looks even worse for the ICE.
We're all being cajoled by media to believe that EV is the work of the devil.
It's horses
t, the numbers don't lie and they tell a very compelling story.Challenge them if you like, I just ask that you bring something solid to back it up.
Edited by GT9 on Friday 31st May 09:16
can't remember said:
I've thought for years that we were being prepared for our EV future by ICE cars getting unreasonably large and heavy. Imagine all the effort that has gone into the weight reduction and aerodynamics of EVs going into ICE cars a decade ago. Ah well, too late now.
People didn't care; they b1tched about £2/lt but that wasn't close to being enough to motivate a large part of the public towards lighter and more aerodynamic cars. I'd put a lot of that down to ignorance, or engine improvements that allowed people to square the costs of upsizing (as opposed to taking the "efficiency bonus"), or the straight-up "I want something huge and it's not like I do 20kpa, so so whatevs." But the Wagoneer - is it a real proposition for the UK? It's always been a car I've thought Jeep should have put every effort into, and made into a proper upscale product; it's the original luxury SUV and ought to afford Jeep cache over come-lately pretenders like RR.
Bispal said:
EV's are supposed to be environmentally sustainable, I just don't get how a 600bhp, 2,571 kilo, oversized car that does 0-60 in 3 seconds is relevant to anyone, any use case or any cause. Can't wait for this fad to be over and a return to 'right' sized cars that are light, economical, sporty, usable, sustainable & relevant.
So the Jeep Avenger then 
SDK said:
Bispal said:
EV's are supposed to be environmentally sustainable, I just don't get how a 600bhp, 2,571 kilo, oversized car that does 0-60 in 3 seconds is relevant to anyone, any use case or any cause. Can't wait for this fad to be over and a return to 'right' sized cars that are light, economical, sporty, usable, sustainable & relevant.
...because there are only EV's like this which existOr, did you miss the large number of overweight, oversized SUV's , with massive petrol/diesel engines since about 1998? [The latest being the £200k 2.8 ton, 600bhp, petrol powered Range Rover SV]
The EV equivalents of these are using much less energy to get around.
e.g. A 2.5 ton, 900bhp Lotus Eletre EV SUV is averaging over 80 MPGe in real world use. Compared to the 16MPG average of the RR SV's, Lambo Urus, Porsche Cayenne Turbo's of this world. There is your 'sustainable' improvement answer !
I thought Pistonheads was a knowledgeable community ! Turns out many are just anti-EV because .....
Edited by SDK on Friday 31st May 08:57
Firstly most high end Lambo, Bentley and Porsche SUVs, are irrelevant as they average tiny miles from tiny numbers of vehicles, so stop eating beef if that concerned about global warming.
Secondly, the energy requirement (not to mention ethics associated with many of the mines and working environments) to make lithium batteries are significant. Moreover end of life recycling is a huge challenge yet to be tackled, compared to simple metal and plastics recylcing of ICE cars.
The overall carbon footprint of electric cars, breaks even with its ICE equivalent after approx 80 k miles, various studies confirm this.
AND
This is assuming 100% of electricity is green, which of course it is not. In the 2 biggest markets US and China total of 70% of electricity comes from fossil fuels, with 20% and 60% respectively come from coal in those 2 countries.
How green are your EVs now?
British Beef said:
SDK said:
Bispal said:
EV's are supposed to be environmentally sustainable, I just don't get how a 600bhp, 2,571 kilo, oversized car that does 0-60 in 3 seconds is relevant to anyone, any use case or any cause. Can't wait for this fad to be over and a return to 'right' sized cars that are light, economical, sporty, usable, sustainable & relevant.
...because there are only EV's like this which existOr, did you miss the large number of overweight, oversized SUV's , with massive petrol/diesel engines since about 1998? [The latest being the £200k 2.8 ton, 600bhp, petrol powered Range Rover SV]
The EV equivalents of these are using much less energy to get around.
e.g. A 2.5 ton, 900bhp Lotus Eletre EV SUV is averaging over 80 MPGe in real world use. Compared to the 16MPG average of the RR SV's, Lambo Urus, Porsche Cayenne Turbo's of this world. There is your 'sustainable' improvement answer !
I thought Pistonheads was a knowledgeable community ! Turns out many are just anti-EV because .....
Edited by SDK on Friday 31st May 08:57
Firstly most high end Lambo, Bentley and Porsche SUVs, are irrelevant as they average tiny miles from tiny numbers of vehicles, so stop eating beef if that concerned about global warming.
Secondly, the energy requirement (not to mention ethics associated with many of the mines and working environments) to make lithium batteries are significant. Moreover end of life recycling is a huge challenge yet to be tackled, compared to simple metal and plastics recylcing of ICE cars.
The overall carbon footprint of electric cars, breaks even with its ICE equivalent after approx 80 k miles, various studies confirm this.
AND
This is assuming 100% of electricity is green, which of course it is not. In the 2 biggest markets US and China total of 70% of electricity comes from fossil fuels, with 20% and 60% respectively come from coal in those 2 countries.
How green are your EVs now?
GT9 said:
A large ICE SUV has a lifetime carbon footprint nigh on 100 tons.
An average ICE car is closer to 50 tons.
Who actually gives a monkeys?An average ICE car is closer to 50 tons.
CO2 is not the problem. I know that 'doing your own research' (what used to be know as reading) is frowned upon these days, but I suggest if you want to find out the real truth behind all of this Net Zero madness, visit or search for one of the following:
Climate: the movie
CO2 Coalition
Tom Ed Substack
Bispal said:
EV's are supposed to be environmentally sustainable, I just don't get how a 600bhp, 2,571 kilo, oversized car that does 0-60 in 3 seconds is relevant to anyone, any use case or any cause. Can't wait for this fad to be over and a return to 'right' sized cars that are light, economical, sporty, usable, sustainable & relevant.
It's the fuel that's sustainable. Surely not a difficult concept to grasp? Weight matters not a damn when your energy is renewable, it's been covered a thousand times. The % of electricity that's renewable is constantly increasing, and having places to put it (like into our cars) creates further demand for renewable energy, which brings further investment to the renewable sector. The sources will never run out. Not a difficult concept to grasp. Are there alternatives? Sure. Is petrol one of them? No.
Should all 600hp+ cars be banned? No more Ferraris? Or do you only object to power when it's in an SUV?
What makes this car "oversized"? Is a LWB high-top delivery van oversized? Or is this Jeep only oversized from your own very limited view of the world?
Big cars are useful for big people with families. Surely not a difficult concept to grasp.
3 seconds to 60 is just a bonus by-product of efficient electric motors and big batteries. Would you prefer they artificially slow them down instead? That doesn't sound very PH.
I too love light, economical, sporty vehicles, but they're sod-all use when I want to take the whole family camping.
There IS a use case for these things, I would love one, it would suit my life very, very well. I ALSO have a small, light, runaround for most local journeys (at 4+ miles/kWh typically), but this weekend the big diesel will be loaded to the roofbox, towbar and beyond, and I'd much rather do that trip in an EV if I could.
Honestly, take a look at your opinions and decide if there's any basis for it, or if you are just ignorantly opposed to any type of vehicle that doesn't suit your own particular use. Because from my view, where this (and the EV9 and similar) look like a fantastic future, your opinion seems like utter garbage.
British Beef said:
The bigger picture, usually ommitted for convenience of pushing the "green" rhetoric, is considering carbon footprint over life cycle of product, not just the school yard chants of "how many mpg equivalent" bla bla bla.
Firstly most high end Lambo, Bentley and Porsche SUVs, are irrelevant as they average tiny miles from tiny numbers of vehicles, so stop eating beef if that concerned about global warming.
Secondly, the energy requirement (not to mention ethics associated with many of the mines and working environments) to make lithium batteries are significant. Moreover end of life recycling is a huge challenge yet to be tackled, compared to simple metal and plastics recylcing of ICE cars.
The overall carbon footprint of electric cars, breaks even with its ICE equivalent after approx 80 k miles, various studies confirm this.
AND
This is assuming 100% of electricity is green, which of course it is not. In the 2 biggest markets US and China total of 70% of electricity comes from fossil fuels, with 20% and 60% respectively come from coal in those 2 countries.
How green are your EVs now?
Your 80,000 mile breakeven is 5 years out of date and was absolutely never the case for 100% renewable electricity, that's straight up false.Firstly most high end Lambo, Bentley and Porsche SUVs, are irrelevant as they average tiny miles from tiny numbers of vehicles, so stop eating beef if that concerned about global warming.
Secondly, the energy requirement (not to mention ethics associated with many of the mines and working environments) to make lithium batteries are significant. Moreover end of life recycling is a huge challenge yet to be tackled, compared to simple metal and plastics recylcing of ICE cars.
The overall carbon footprint of electric cars, breaks even with its ICE equivalent after approx 80 k miles, various studies confirm this.
AND
This is assuming 100% of electricity is green, which of course it is not. In the 2 biggest markets US and China total of 70% of electricity comes from fossil fuels, with 20% and 60% respectively come from coal in those 2 countries.
How green are your EVs now?
I've posted the lifetime footprints above for the present mix of UK generation.
Right now the grid carbon intensity is 160 g/kWh.
For this car, let's be conservative and say it averages 2.5 miles per kWh.
The usage phase footprint is therefore 40 g/km, or 8 tons of lifetime CO2.
Call it 10 tons to account for charging losses.
And yet the petrol version has a lifetime footprint of 100 tons.
How?
Well, simply because its going to get through over 7000 gallons, or 25 tons of petrol through its life.
Yes, 25 tons.
25 tons of petrol = 75 tons of CO2 at the exhaust pipe, a relationship that never changes.
To extract and refine 25 tons of petrol requires another 6-7 tons of fossil fuel (at least), so there's another 20 tons of CO2.
Nearly 100 tons of CO2 just due to fuel consumption.
The rest is to manufacture the car.
Hopefully you can see now how ridiculous your claims sound?
What you are basically saying is that the EV version will have a manufacturing footprint of 80 tons vs the previous petrol car of 10-20 tons.
Like I said, it's horses
t, and you should stop peddling it.The average continuous waste heat loss for the petrol version is around 50 kW.
That's were the bulk of the fuel cost is going, and, therefore, the bulk of the carbon footprint.
All of that heat and CO2 and nothing to show for it.
Understanding and accepting this wastefulness is where I think many people struggle.
Either because they are simply unaware of it, or because it subconsciously feels like being accused of something bad.
Obviously it doesn't help if individual choices are labelled as guilty choices.
And I suspect a lot of anti-EV sentiment stems from this.
Edited for spelling.
Edited by GT9 on Friday 31st May 10:33
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff