ummm...mk2 GT3/996 TT/Cayman S

[amare32]

After selling my E46 M3 18 months ago, I have been out of the sports car game for far too long and I'm now itching to get my first Porsche :D

I put down a deposit for a 997 C2 last year but have cancelled the order after I testdrove both cooking C2 and C2S as I was unimpressed - probably something to do with after the testdrive I was taken out in a 996 TT which blew me away!!

Fast forward 12 months of limbo watching the market, for £60k, I could get myself into a 996 TT and GT3 Mk2...but with the imminent arrival of the Cayman S, for £50k with a few goodies added a new Porsche can be had but as some of you guys can appreciate my mind changes day by day.

Early reports of the Cayman S points out this could be the most acomplished handler if you discount the extreme 911 and CGT, so I can't helped but be intigued with the new addition to the Porsche range.

I have a use of a runabout for the everyday mundane stuff like getting to work/shopping so looking for a Porker with the right mix of performance and involvement - performance has to be steps ahead of the M3.

Having driven the TT, I felt this might be the best option as the ride height might be better suited as I don't want to miss grounding at every speed bump, however I've never driven a GT3, I might have to satisfy my curiosity by taking one out for a blast before making a decision (but a bit concerned about lack of PSM and low ride height), likewise I'll have to take a Cayman S out for a spin to put my mind at ease...

So what so you guys recommend?? Your opinions appreciated!

[roshambo]

Performance of the Cayman will not be steps ahead of the M3, the other 2 will be.
If its an everyday car then the TT is probably the better choice over the GT3. I use mine to go shopping in, collect the kids etc etc & it laps it up.
Performance wise on the road there really isn't much in it, but the TT can easily be modified to over 500bhp.....

Ro.

[DanH]

I use my RS to go shopping in etc. It laps it up too. Its just not as comfortable as a TT would be

[flemke]

The Cayman will weigh essentially the same as the GT3. It will have at most 85% of the power with an engine whose basic design is fundamentally inferior and has less scope for upgrading.
If you can figure out either how to take 200kg out of the Cayman, or how to install the GT3 engine in the Cayman, then you would have a good car.

[amare32]

Suppose the TT's trump card is after a year or so I can always get DMS to remap to free up an extra 100 ponies

At the moment I have this devil on my left shouting TT or GT3 and the little angel on my right calmly advising me Cayman S has all the performance you'll ever need for UK roads plus it's new...



>> Edited by amare32 on Monday 19th September 19:30

[DanH]

amare32 said:

Suppose the TT's trump card is after a year or so I can always get DMS to remap to free up an extra 100 ponies At the moment I have this devil on my left shouting TT or GT3 and the little angel on my right calmly advising me Cayman S has all the performance you'll ever need for UK roads plus it's new...

By that logic you may as well save a load of cash and buy a mondeo

Cheapest OPC mk2 GT3 is 56k at the moment. Its mileage is so slow it will feel new. GT3 ride is fairly firm though, so I couldn't honestly recommend one until you've tried it.

As flemke states, both the 911s you mention have fundamentally better engines than the Cayman.

Have you driven a Boxster S as I would assume it won't be worlds different to a Cayman S.

[rob05]

Strange that you were unimpressed with the C2,.Not really sure about your reasons for the cayman,one thing is for sure don't expect that to set your world on fire if you did'nt like the C2S.Im not a big fan of the turbo,well any 4wd porsche really,thats not to say it is'nt a fantastic car,i would go for a GT2 if i was in the market for a 996,and of course if i had the dollars to buy it

[DanH]

flemke said:

The Cayman will weigh essentially the same as the GT3. It will have at most 85% of the power with an engine whose basic design is fundamentally inferior and has less scope for upgrading. If you can figure out either how to take 200kg out of the Cayman, or how to install the GT3 engine in the Cayman, then you would have a good car.

According to the review on this site, the Cayman weighs 1350kg and has 295 bhp. Thats a significant power deficit against a GT3 (86bhp for those unaware) with a negligable weight advantage.

Getting back to the original poster, my last 2 cars were mid engined, and whilst I understand the popularity, I'm not so sure the handling is so much 'better'. You have to learn to take advantage of a 911s layout, but surely thats part of the charm? Mid engined cars often have nasty limit handling due to low polar moment - its why they turn in so well. The downside is that they also turn really well when you overstep the limit!

edit : fixed typo - said GT2, meant GT3!


>> Edited by DanH on Monday 19th September 20:50

[flemke]

DanH said:

flemke said: The Cayman will weigh essentially the same as the GT3. It will have at most 85% of the power with an engine whose basic design is fundamentally inferior and has less scope for upgrading. If you can figure out either how to take 200kg out of the Cayman, or how to install the GT3 engine in the Cayman, then you would have a good car. According to the review on this site, the Cayman weighs 1350kg and has 295 bhp. Thats a significant power deficit against a GT2 (86bhp for those unaware) with a negligable weight advantage. Getting back to the original poster, my last 2 cars were mid engined, and whilst I understand the popularity, I'm not so sure the handling is so much 'better'. You have to learn to take advantage of a 911s layout, but surely thats part of the charm? Mid engined cars often have nasty limit handling due to low polar moment - its why they turn in so well. The downside is that they also turn really well when you overstep the limit!

That's more like a 170 bhp difference, isn't it?
The Cayman block can be upgraded to about 345 with much trouble. In the Carrera it can be taken to maybe 375. I'm not sure, however, whether that is feasible in the Cayman because of its different intake and exhaust systems.

[DanH]

flemke said:

That's more like a 170 bhp difference, isn't it? The Cayman block can be upgraded to about 345 with much trouble. In the Carrera it can be taken to maybe 375. I'm not sure, however, whether that is feasible in the Cayman because of its different intake and exhaust systems.

Oops that was a typo. I was referring to the GT3.

Can you really add 50bhp NA to the 3.4 without compromising reliability? Presumably that type of gain would require a lot of expensive work.

I'd love a cayman CS with the dry sumped 3.6. I bet a German tuner does it, although it won't be cost effective.



>> Edited by DanH on Monday 19th September 20:49

[johnny senna]

DanH said:

I'd love a cayman CS with the dry sumped 3.6. I bet a German tuner does it, although it won't be cost effective.

Absolutely right and spot on, Dan. I would love one as well......but you would need the GT3 engine.



>> Edited by johnny senna on Monday 19th September 23:14

[amare32]

When I drove the 997 C2 and C2S, I was using the M3 as the benchmark and perhaps should have taken both out on longer drives before making a definitive judgement. What I didn't like more was the retro looks of the round lights and seperate light clusters - it just doesn't do it for me. I'm sure both would impress if I'd taken it out longer, however when I drove the 996 TT, there seems to be more steering feel and the characteristic weight distribution which makes it such a challenge to get to grips. The only thing was lacking was the engine sound dept which I'm sure that's where the GT3 excels over the TT.

I guess there's no logic in me considering a Cayman S over a TT/GT3 as they are poles apart, just a thought as £50k could net me a new Porker but on the otherhand as my budget is £65k max afterall, I'd be silly not to opt for the 911 as I don't want to end up chopping the Cayman after a few months simply because it's not fast enough. I suppose with that reason that pretty takes the Cayman S out of the equation - but I'll still have to take it out for a spin regardless

And guys, please do not try and talk me into a GT2

[DanH]

This months 911 & Porsche world has a which to buy, turbo or GT3 article. Nothing new in it, but if you are researching then maybe worth buying.

I won't try to persuade you to get a GT2

[s3am]

GT3/TT anyday, at sub 60k they are a (relative) bargain supercar.

[Dakkon]

flemke said:

The Cayman will weigh essentially the same as the GT3. It will have at most 85% of the power with an engine whose basic design is fundamentally inferior and has less scope for upgrading. If you can figure out either how to take 200kg out of the Cayman, or how to install the GT3 engine in the Cayman, then you would have a good car.

I'm sure Ruf and Gemballa will figure it out pretty sharpish