Multi-Asset Funds
Discussion
As far as liquid tradeable securities go:
Level 1 - MSCI world etf in home currency
Level 2 - Target market etf (S&P500, NASDAQ, UK, Europe etc)
Level 3 - Self selected single stock portfolio (requires knowledge, resource and experience)
Level 4 - Leverage (requires knowledge, resource and experience)
Active funds - your choice but you risk underperforming from time to time
Combination of the above, but consider overlap and additional work monitoring and rebalancing
PE - if you can access and have appropriate time horizon
Level 1 - MSCI world etf in home currency
Level 2 - Target market etf (S&P500, NASDAQ, UK, Europe etc)
Level 3 - Self selected single stock portfolio (requires knowledge, resource and experience)
Level 4 - Leverage (requires knowledge, resource and experience)
Active funds - your choice but you risk underperforming from time to time
Combination of the above, but consider overlap and additional work monitoring and rebalancing
PE - if you can access and have appropriate time horizon
IMO the question "which fund should I invest in"
should be changed to
"how much volatility can I accept and what's my time horizon"?
It's easy to look back over the last 10 years and realise that S&P 500 has sen the best fund returns and, depending on where you *were* invested over that period to tell your self "I held S&P500 so I understand how this stock market malarkey works", or, if you didn't hold S&P 500 to think "why didn't my advisor know what he was talking about - how come I've had 80% in bonds and barely fought off inflation"?
Donald Trump is often quoted "buy the dip".
However, pick any fund which has performed well (or even any individual shock) and look at the lats 5 years and ask your self "when *was* the dip"? - Trump was talking borlicks equivalent to anyone who had said over any period to use 'momentum' strategy to choose what to buy today. Is S&P a good buy today or a fund which has performed very well over the last 10 years but about to experience a significant downturn ?
Today's price on any fund is the global collective knowledge and belief about it's *volitivity* rather than it's likely performance.
IMO - if you don't have inside info or a time machine select a low fees environment and pick an investment portfolio which reflects your risk appetite.
But just for fun use 25% to pick something risky (e.g. India market ETF) check the newsfeeds / Bloomberg every day!
should be changed to
"how much volatility can I accept and what's my time horizon"?
It's easy to look back over the last 10 years and realise that S&P 500 has sen the best fund returns and, depending on where you *were* invested over that period to tell your self "I held S&P500 so I understand how this stock market malarkey works", or, if you didn't hold S&P 500 to think "why didn't my advisor know what he was talking about - how come I've had 80% in bonds and barely fought off inflation"?
Donald Trump is often quoted "buy the dip".
However, pick any fund which has performed well (or even any individual shock) and look at the lats 5 years and ask your self "when *was* the dip"? - Trump was talking borlicks equivalent to anyone who had said over any period to use 'momentum' strategy to choose what to buy today. Is S&P a good buy today or a fund which has performed very well over the last 10 years but about to experience a significant downturn ?
Today's price on any fund is the global collective knowledge and belief about it's *volitivity* rather than it's likely performance.
IMO - if you don't have inside info or a time machine select a low fees environment and pick an investment portfolio which reflects your risk appetite.
But just for fun use 25% to pick something risky (e.g. India market ETF) check the newsfeeds / Bloomberg every day!
I'd be interested in the answers to your question too, especially when you get a response that relates to a multi-asset fund!
I do sometimes wonder about Baillie-Gifford Managed, as low fees for active management and the asset allocation, iirc 20% each of UK, Europe and US equity, plus 10% EM, then the rest in bonds and cash, seems reasonable to me. However, the multi-asset nature of the fund hasn't made it immune to what I regard as the typical Baillie-Gifford volatility.
I do sometimes wonder about Baillie-Gifford Managed, as low fees for active management and the asset allocation, iirc 20% each of UK, Europe and US equity, plus 10% EM, then the rest in bonds and cash, seems reasonable to me. However, the multi-asset nature of the fund hasn't made it immune to what I regard as the typical Baillie-Gifford volatility.
I have a reasonable percentage of overall assets in LifeStrategy. Don't really know why.. probably just for something a bit different than just a global index and also for a reasonable tilt towards the UK and GBP. The reality is I don't think there's any evidence any multi-asset fund is any better than a mixture of a global index fund and a global bond fund.
Thematic Investing: iShares Global Clean Energy ETF, ARK Innovation ETF.
Emerging Markets: Vanguard FTSE Emerging Markets ETF, iShares MSCI Emerging Markets ETF.
Factor-Based Investing: iShares Edge MSCI USA Value Factor ETF, Invesco S&P 500 Quality ETF.
Sustainable and ESG Investing: iShares MSCI KLD 400 Social ETF, Vanguard ESG U.S. Stock ETF.
Alternative Assets: SPDR Gold Shares, Vanguard Real Estate ETF, iShares Global Infrastructure ETF.
Emerging Markets: Vanguard FTSE Emerging Markets ETF, iShares MSCI Emerging Markets ETF.
Factor-Based Investing: iShares Edge MSCI USA Value Factor ETF, Invesco S&P 500 Quality ETF.
Sustainable and ESG Investing: iShares MSCI KLD 400 Social ETF, Vanguard ESG U.S. Stock ETF.
Alternative Assets: SPDR Gold Shares, Vanguard Real Estate ETF, iShares Global Infrastructure ETF.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said:trevalvole said:
I'd be interested in the answers to your question too, especially when you get a response that relates to a multi-asset fund!
Did wonder if it was just me 
To be honest it's all useful feedback but yes the question was more about ranges or specific funds.
One area where there is a gap in the UK market (IMO) are multi asset ETF's and am really hoping the big players will address this soon (Vanguard, BlackRock, HSBC take note).
For OEIC's we are spoilt for choice well Vanguard Life Strategy, HSBC and the BlackRock mymap series amongst the ones I know but ETF's range is not great. I use ETF's on a few platforms for the capped platform fees but frustratingly need multiple ETF's (and incur the increased trading fees and faffing with rebalancing) in my ISA to achieve desired Equities/Bond mix.
For OEIC's we are spoilt for choice well Vanguard Life Strategy, HSBC and the BlackRock mymap series amongst the ones I know but ETF's range is not great. I use ETF's on a few platforms for the capped platform fees but frustratingly need multiple ETF's (and incur the increased trading fees and faffing with rebalancing) in my ISA to achieve desired Equities/Bond mix.
Edited by VR99 on Monday 8th July 17:24
VR99 said:
One area where there is a gap in the UK market (IMO) are multi asset ETF's and am really hoping the big players will address this soon (Vanguard, BlackRock, HSBC take note).
For OEIC's we are spoilt for choice well Vanguard Life Strategy, HSBC and the BlackRock mymap series amongst the ones I know but ETF's range is not great. I use ETF's on a few platforms for the capped platform fees but frustratingly need multiple ETF's (and incur the increased trading fees and faffing with rebalancing) in my ISA to achieve desired Equities/Bond mix.
Also, iirc, if you are holding them in a taxable account, then income from bond funds is taxed as interest, whereas income from a multi-asset fund with <=60% in bonds and cash is taxed as dividends, which is at a lower rate.For OEIC's we are spoilt for choice well Vanguard Life Strategy, HSBC and the BlackRock mymap series amongst the ones I know but ETF's range is not great. I use ETF's on a few platforms for the capped platform fees but frustratingly need multiple ETF's (and incur the increased trading fees and faffing with rebalancing) in my ISA to achieve desired Equities/Bond mix.
Edited by VR99 on Monday 8th July 17:24
The point of multi-asset funds is they will maintain the equity/bond weightings. If you buy separate funds you have the task of rebalancing, or the mix will go out of alignment. They also tend to overlay some degree of methodology in terms of geographical exposure that isn't as basic as a worldwide tracker holding over 60% US.
If you do all the portfolio maintenance on individual funds the return should be similar. However, multi-asset funds are usually about the same price so it's easier for no more cost if you don't want to be all equities.
If you do all the portfolio maintenance on individual funds the return should be similar. However, multi-asset funds are usually about the same price so it's easier for no more cost if you don't want to be all equities.
I'm not invested in any, but there's been quite a bit of innovation over the last few years in the leveraged multi-asset ETF space, with interesting implications in terms of asset allocation and capital efficiency. Mostly US-focused for now but gradually becoming available here and elsewhere.
https://www.wisdomtree.com/investments/strategies/...
https://www.returnstackedetfs.com/
https://www.wisdomtree.com/investments/strategies/...
https://www.returnstackedetfs.com/
To answer your question
I hold the investment trust CGT and PNL, both currently holding only about 40% in equities. They are often referred to as wealth preservation trusts.
They both tend to be lower volatility, but you can still lose money! If you look at the performance of both against LS 40, they both have done a better job. They both adjust the asset allocation depending on their view of the markets. Currently both think equities are over priced.
For other funds with different risks, have a look at Trustnet on the web and use the menu to select multi asset funds.
Good luck, I will watch this thread with interest.
I hold the investment trust CGT and PNL, both currently holding only about 40% in equities. They are often referred to as wealth preservation trusts.
They both tend to be lower volatility, but you can still lose money! If you look at the performance of both against LS 40, they both have done a better job. They both adjust the asset allocation depending on their view of the markets. Currently both think equities are over priced.
For other funds with different risks, have a look at Trustnet on the web and use the menu to select multi asset funds.
Good luck, I will watch this thread with interest.
steve_n said:
The point of multi-asset funds is they will maintain the equity/bond weightings. If you buy separate funds you have the task of rebalancing, or the mix will go out of alignment.
It's difficult to find a fund manager who's good at ONE thing. To find one who's good at EVERYTHING seems to me a bit of a stretch, so I avoid multi-asset funds. Your point about rebalancing is well made. 10+ years ago my strategy was to be deliberately overweight in Norh America, larger companies and health/pharma. By happy circumstance all three (and there is some overlap) performed very well and despite my attempts to rebalance I'm still far more overweight those three categories than I ever intended.
When I rebalanced I was buying bonds at just the wrong times! They now sit breakeven on total return but eroded by inflation while the equity funds have continued to deliver around 10% pa.
Would I have done better in balanced or multi-asset? Heaven only knows.
Claret thanks I've been there and done that with those two and right now I'm gravitating more towards low cost ranges like HSBC and Vanguard as I've found not having so much manager risk lets me sleep better 
I could probably just chuck the lot between HSBC Global Strategy Balanced and LifeStrategy 60 and sleep pretty well.
I could probably just chuck the lot between HSBC Global Strategy Balanced and LifeStrategy 60 and sleep pretty well.
Phooey said:
The reality is I don't think there's any evidence any multi-asset fund is any better than a mixture of a global index fund and a global bond fund.
There's plenty to suggest the oppositehttps://finalytiq.co.uk/the-multi-asset-fund-gravy...
Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff