From Petrol Powered direct to full EV?
Discussion
Afternoon all,
I'm considering an EV as my next car. I currently drive a 2014 Seat Leon with a conventional petrol engine - no hybridisation at all. I've been reading reviews on mild hybrid, PHEV's and full EV. When the time comes to change I'm tempted to either go for a mild hybrid with manual gearbox or alternatively go full EV. For me PHEV's offer both the best option in terms of both petrol and electric drivetrains but also the worst option in terms of weight and complexity.
I will admit range is still a bit of a concern for my use case which is mostly local journeys but I do use my car for work which involves a few longer journeys every couple of months. Ideally I would like a real world range of 300 miles. I have off road parking where I could charge the car. The new Skoda Elroq and the Renault Scenic long range both have WLTP figures of over 350 miles.
I don't particularly need a large car and it's a real shame that the new Renault 4 and 5 electric aren't offered with slightly larger batteries to push the range closer to 300 miles.
Has anyone else gone straight from a non hybrid car direct to an EV and regretted it?
All the best.
I'm considering an EV as my next car. I currently drive a 2014 Seat Leon with a conventional petrol engine - no hybridisation at all. I've been reading reviews on mild hybrid, PHEV's and full EV. When the time comes to change I'm tempted to either go for a mild hybrid with manual gearbox or alternatively go full EV. For me PHEV's offer both the best option in terms of both petrol and electric drivetrains but also the worst option in terms of weight and complexity.
I will admit range is still a bit of a concern for my use case which is mostly local journeys but I do use my car for work which involves a few longer journeys every couple of months. Ideally I would like a real world range of 300 miles. I have off road parking where I could charge the car. The new Skoda Elroq and the Renault Scenic long range both have WLTP figures of over 350 miles.
I don't particularly need a large car and it's a real shame that the new Renault 4 and 5 electric aren't offered with slightly larger batteries to push the range closer to 300 miles.
Has anyone else gone straight from a non hybrid car direct to an EV and regretted it?
All the best.
Ecosseven said:
Afternoon all,
I'm considering an EV as my next car. I currently drive a 2014 Seat Leon with a conventional petrol engine - no hybridisation at all. I've been reading reviews on mild hybrid, PHEV's and full EV. When the time comes to change I'm tempted to either go for a mild hybrid with manual gearbox or alternatively go full EV. For me PHEV's offer both the best option in terms of both petrol and electric drivetrains but also the worst option in terms of weight and complexity.
I will admit range is still a bit of a concern for my use case which is mostly local journeys but I do use my car for work which involves a few longer journeys every couple of months. Ideally I would like a real world range of 300 miles. I have off road parking where I could charge the car. The new Skoda Elroq and the Renault Scenic long range both have WLTP figures of over 350 miles.
I don't particularly need a large car and it's a real shame that the new Renault 4 and 5 electric aren't offered with slightly larger batteries to push the range closer to 300 miles.
Has anyone else gone straight from a non hybrid car direct to an EV and regretted it?
All the best.
Went straight from Petrol Mk7 Golf 1.5 to Cupra Born (wife) and Merc E350d to VW ID3 and not regretted it one bit. Changed the wife's car first as a bit of an experiment, but then quickly found my E350d sitting on the drive gathering dust as far preferred the EV to drive. Quickest way for me to get into an EV too was to early terminate the Merc and then jump into a company car which was available with very quick turnaround. I really found the E350d drivetrain sluggish and quite frustrating to drive once having got used to EV so couldn't wait to swap. Haven't looked back - over 31k on the ID3 since Sep '23 and 24k on the Born since Mar '23.I'm considering an EV as my next car. I currently drive a 2014 Seat Leon with a conventional petrol engine - no hybridisation at all. I've been reading reviews on mild hybrid, PHEV's and full EV. When the time comes to change I'm tempted to either go for a mild hybrid with manual gearbox or alternatively go full EV. For me PHEV's offer both the best option in terms of both petrol and electric drivetrains but also the worst option in terms of weight and complexity.
I will admit range is still a bit of a concern for my use case which is mostly local journeys but I do use my car for work which involves a few longer journeys every couple of months. Ideally I would like a real world range of 300 miles. I have off road parking where I could charge the car. The new Skoda Elroq and the Renault Scenic long range both have WLTP figures of over 350 miles.
I don't particularly need a large car and it's a real shame that the new Renault 4 and 5 electric aren't offered with slightly larger batteries to push the range closer to 300 miles.
Has anyone else gone straight from a non hybrid car direct to an EV and regretted it?
All the best.
frisbee said:
I wouldn't worry about getting a car that does your maximum possible round trip on a single charge. As long as you get a car with a solid 200 mile range a quick splash and dash at a rapid charger on the way home takes minutes.
To be fair it is a mindset change that is required for a seamless shift to full BeV. A full tank every morning if one so wishes and as you say a short stop on those longer infrequent journeys. Anything over a real 200 range will cover most people's needs.
First thing to mention - ignore the WLTP ranges! It keeps coming up on other threads and it isnt accurate. I would do some looking around at real-world testing numbers and compare from there. Not all of the data is available, but getting more realistic numbers means you shouldnt be disappointed. Personally, I use the EPA ratings, but clearly not all EV's are available in the US market, so its not a good guide.
Second, home charging makes a massive difference and if you can get an L2 charger, even better. For me, it was a game changer! Mileage will differ of course, but having the ability to have that flexibility was great and I was no longer tied to 10 hour charge sessions!
I went from ICE to EV and not via a hybrid - in fact, never owned a hybrid. Though I do think that a PHEV might be a good fit for a lot of people. Having watched Harrys Garage about the PHEVs he's had, I am inclined to think that it might be a suitable for a lot of people. It can be the worst of all worlds, but equally, I do think that if you sit right in the middle, they could solve a lot. Short local journeys, at home charging and the occasional long trip - a PHEV might be the ideal option. I keep eyeing up the 330e as an option, as it would fit my requirements perfectly!
As others have mentioned though, range can be seen as an issue, but in reality it isnt. I didnt coin the phrase, but its really not range anxiety, but its charger anxiety. If you are driving 300 miles and there are no chargers, the range doesnt make a difference. If you can stop, splash and dash and move on with your life, that works for a lot of people. For me, it took a while (I am a slow learner) to get out of the habit of filling to 100% as often as possible; you never know when you need the full range! But you end up spending a lot of time charging and wasting a lot of the efficiency anyway (charge much slower at 90%+). Once I got my head around it, it was easy. Do I have full charge? No, but there are a bunch of chargers scattered around for me to use? Not a problem. And dont charge to 100% on public chargers - they tend to be expensive and its not worth it. Just charge to what you need, and charge at home where its a lot cheaper.
One comment on PHEV's though - they make a lot of sense when you can charge to 100% as often as possible. You dont need to of course, but if you want the benefit of EV mode, they battery needs to be charged. And some, not all, PHEV's dont offer great MPG when running as a hybrid. To maximize the benefit, gotta use that battery!
If you fit the parameters though, an EV is a good option. PHEV has some very specific use cases, but can work well too.
Second, home charging makes a massive difference and if you can get an L2 charger, even better. For me, it was a game changer! Mileage will differ of course, but having the ability to have that flexibility was great and I was no longer tied to 10 hour charge sessions!
I went from ICE to EV and not via a hybrid - in fact, never owned a hybrid. Though I do think that a PHEV might be a good fit for a lot of people. Having watched Harrys Garage about the PHEVs he's had, I am inclined to think that it might be a suitable for a lot of people. It can be the worst of all worlds, but equally, I do think that if you sit right in the middle, they could solve a lot. Short local journeys, at home charging and the occasional long trip - a PHEV might be the ideal option. I keep eyeing up the 330e as an option, as it would fit my requirements perfectly!
As others have mentioned though, range can be seen as an issue, but in reality it isnt. I didnt coin the phrase, but its really not range anxiety, but its charger anxiety. If you are driving 300 miles and there are no chargers, the range doesnt make a difference. If you can stop, splash and dash and move on with your life, that works for a lot of people. For me, it took a while (I am a slow learner) to get out of the habit of filling to 100% as often as possible; you never know when you need the full range! But you end up spending a lot of time charging and wasting a lot of the efficiency anyway (charge much slower at 90%+). Once I got my head around it, it was easy. Do I have full charge? No, but there are a bunch of chargers scattered around for me to use? Not a problem. And dont charge to 100% on public chargers - they tend to be expensive and its not worth it. Just charge to what you need, and charge at home where its a lot cheaper.
One comment on PHEV's though - they make a lot of sense when you can charge to 100% as often as possible. You dont need to of course, but if you want the benefit of EV mode, they battery needs to be charged. And some, not all, PHEV's dont offer great MPG when running as a hybrid. To maximize the benefit, gotta use that battery!
If you fit the parameters though, an EV is a good option. PHEV has some very specific use cases, but can work well too.
My wife went from petrol to EV and loves it, although she doesn't venture far enough to worry about public charging.
What's your typical daily mileage? A PHEV might work out best if you can do most mileage on EV and then do longer journeys on petrol. Weight is really a non issue for a daily car.
Complexity could be an issue on PHEVs but to be honest I'd be wanting a warranty on any car post about 2020 anyway, regardless of drivetrain, due to the extra complexities of "modern tech".
What's your typical daily mileage? A PHEV might work out best if you can do most mileage on EV and then do longer journeys on petrol. Weight is really a non issue for a daily car.
Complexity could be an issue on PHEVs but to be honest I'd be wanting a warranty on any car post about 2020 anyway, regardless of drivetrain, due to the extra complexities of "modern tech".
This tread made me realise I don’t know many people who only have one car in their household.
I know quite a few people who have EVs and the majority still use ICE vehicles for longer journeys. One of them recently replaced their second car and made sure it was a hybrid as previous long journeys in the EV were annoying.
I know 2 people with Tesla’s as their only car, both seem ok with it but state the reason for that is the supercharger network.
Personally I wouldn’t have an EV as my only car, but I’m pretty impatient and hate stopping at motorway services (horrible places). If you already include regular stops in your longer journeys and / or don’t mind adding a bit of extra time to complete a long journey then I’m sure an EV can work.
The other issue people seem to encounter is charging at their destination. I can’t think of a hotel I’ve stayed at recently that had chargers. Having to charge just before arriving or just after leaving a hotel would annoy me.
I know quite a few people who have EVs and the majority still use ICE vehicles for longer journeys. One of them recently replaced their second car and made sure it was a hybrid as previous long journeys in the EV were annoying.
I know 2 people with Tesla’s as their only car, both seem ok with it but state the reason for that is the supercharger network.
Personally I wouldn’t have an EV as my only car, but I’m pretty impatient and hate stopping at motorway services (horrible places). If you already include regular stops in your longer journeys and / or don’t mind adding a bit of extra time to complete a long journey then I’m sure an EV can work.
The other issue people seem to encounter is charging at their destination. I can’t think of a hotel I’ve stayed at recently that had chargers. Having to charge just before arriving or just after leaving a hotel would annoy me.
I have a RAV4 PHEV it suits our needs perfectly. I get 40-56 on electric only depending on time of year. Most of my journeys are under 50 miles and I can charge at home on solar or low rate overnight electric.
When I need to do a longer journey I have the petrol hybrid engine doing its thing once the battery is depleted and I get 50mpg on petrol alone.
I only put petrol in the car every 4 months.
Wife’s car due to be changed this year it’s a hybrid and will be changing hers to full EV.
When I need to do a longer journey I have the petrol hybrid engine doing its thing once the battery is depleted and I get 50mpg on petrol alone.
I only put petrol in the car every 4 months.
Wife’s car due to be changed this year it’s a hybrid and will be changing hers to full EV.
survivalist said:
This tread made me realise I don’t know many people who only have one car in their household.
I know quite a few people who have EVs and the majority still use ICE vehicles for longer journeys. One of them recently replaced their second car and made sure it was a hybrid as previous long journeys in the EV were annoying.
I know 2 people with Tesla’s as their only car, both seem ok with it but state the reason for that is the supercharger network.
Personally I wouldn’t have an EV as my only car, but I’m pretty impatient and hate stopping at motorway services (horrible places). If you already include regular stops in your longer journeys and / or don’t mind adding a bit of extra time to complete a long journey then I’m sure an EV can work.
The other issue people seem to encounter is charging at their destination. I can’t think of a hotel I’ve stayed at recently that had chargers. Having to charge just before arriving or just after leaving a hotel would annoy me.
FairI know quite a few people who have EVs and the majority still use ICE vehicles for longer journeys. One of them recently replaced their second car and made sure it was a hybrid as previous long journeys in the EV were annoying.
I know 2 people with Tesla’s as their only car, both seem ok with it but state the reason for that is the supercharger network.
Personally I wouldn’t have an EV as my only car, but I’m pretty impatient and hate stopping at motorway services (horrible places). If you already include regular stops in your longer journeys and / or don’t mind adding a bit of extra time to complete a long journey then I’m sure an EV can work.
The other issue people seem to encounter is charging at their destination. I can’t think of a hotel I’ve stayed at recently that had chargers. Having to charge just before arriving or just after leaving a hotel would annoy me.
I have to keep reminding myself that I am extremely fortunate to be in the position that I am. I have a drive, a garage, covered additional parking, an L2 charger, 2 cars (one EV and the other ICE) and a job that does not require me to commute every day. I put the BMW on a trickle charger the other day because I havent used it for 2 weeks!
And I totally understand that this is a limited percentage of the population. Not everyone is in this situation and it can all be very different. I do accept that an EV is not the solution for everyone all of the time. I know some people who have gone 100% EV, but then I have a different life for them. At the moment, I will be sticking to one EV and one ICE.
survivalist said:
This tread made me realise I don’t know many people who only have one car in their household.
I know quite a few people who have EVs and the majority still use ICE vehicles for longer journeys. One of them recently replaced their second car and made sure it was a hybrid as previous long journeys in the EV were annoying.
I know 2 people with Tesla’s as their only car, both seem ok with it but state the reason for that is the supercharger network.
Personally I wouldn’t have an EV as my only car, but I’m pretty impatient and hate stopping at motorway services (horrible places). If you already include regular stops in your longer journeys and / or don’t mind adding a bit of extra time to complete a long journey then I’m sure an EV can work.
The other issue people seem to encounter is charging at their destination. I can’t think of a hotel I’ve stayed at recently that had chargers. Having to charge just before arriving or just after leaving a hotel would annoy me.
I would say 50% of my friends have EV’s as their main family cars, myself included. I have stayed at numerous hotels with chargers and I find doing 400 mile trips in my EV a breeze. I know quite a few people who have EVs and the majority still use ICE vehicles for longer journeys. One of them recently replaced their second car and made sure it was a hybrid as previous long journeys in the EV were annoying.
I know 2 people with Tesla’s as their only car, both seem ok with it but state the reason for that is the supercharger network.
Personally I wouldn’t have an EV as my only car, but I’m pretty impatient and hate stopping at motorway services (horrible places). If you already include regular stops in your longer journeys and / or don’t mind adding a bit of extra time to complete a long journey then I’m sure an EV can work.
The other issue people seem to encounter is charging at their destination. I can’t think of a hotel I’ve stayed at recently that had chargers. Having to charge just before arriving or just after leaving a hotel would annoy me.
Once you make the jump, you’ll realise how easy it actually is, assuming you have the right EV. I wouldn’t dream of going any distance in my wife’s e-Up.
Got a Polestar 2 LRDM Performance as a co car in September after swearing I didn’t want a milk float but gave in as the BIK on anything petrol and most hybrids has become very expensive.
I had been using my Mercedes C63S so used to big performance and short range and the Polestar ticks both of those boxes but it costs £7 for a tank of electricity rather than £80.
The Polestar is a quicker car in the real world, gets 250 miles to a charge even in the winter when driven below the speed limit and I had been close to 300 when it was warmer.
The C63 is parked in the garage on a trickle charger, it’s not been used much since I got the Polestar. Adore the C63 and the noise it makes but the electric Polestar is a very impressive piece of metal.
Yes it takes longer to refuel the Polestar but I always start with a full tank and 200+ miles gives me over 3 hours of driving (more like 4 hours) before I need to charge. I park, plug in, go for a pee, check my email for 20mins and I’m back to another 200 miles of driving.
The only thing to work out is where the cheaper chargers are as it can get very expensive fast charging on the road.
I had been using my Mercedes C63S so used to big performance and short range and the Polestar ticks both of those boxes but it costs £7 for a tank of electricity rather than £80.
The Polestar is a quicker car in the real world, gets 250 miles to a charge even in the winter when driven below the speed limit and I had been close to 300 when it was warmer.
The C63 is parked in the garage on a trickle charger, it’s not been used much since I got the Polestar. Adore the C63 and the noise it makes but the electric Polestar is a very impressive piece of metal.
Yes it takes longer to refuel the Polestar but I always start with a full tank and 200+ miles gives me over 3 hours of driving (more like 4 hours) before I need to charge. I park, plug in, go for a pee, check my email for 20mins and I’m back to another 200 miles of driving.
The only thing to work out is where the cheaper chargers are as it can get very expensive fast charging on the road.
LeeM135i said:
Got a Polestar 2 LRDM Performance as a co car in September after swearing I didn’t want a milk float but gave in as the BIK on anything petrol and most hybrids has become very expensive.
I had been using my Mercedes C63S so used to big performance and short range and the Polestar ticks both of those boxes but it costs £7 for a tank of electricity rather than £80.
The Polestar is a quicker car in the real world, gets 250 miles to a charge even in the winter when driven below the speed limit and I had been close to 300 when it was warmer.
The C63 is parked in the garage on a trickle charger, it’s not been used much since I got the Polestar. Adore the C63 and the noise it makes but the electric Polestar is a very impressive piece of metal.
Yes it takes longer to refuel the Polestar but I always start with a full tank and 200+ miles gives me over 3 hours of driving (more like 4 hours) before I need to charge. I park, plug in, go for a pee, check my email for 20mins and I’m back to another 200 miles of driving.
The only thing to work out is where the cheaper chargers are as it can get very expensive fast charging on the road.
Heretic! King Gaz and Cerb Lee will be along to burn you soon!I had been using my Mercedes C63S so used to big performance and short range and the Polestar ticks both of those boxes but it costs £7 for a tank of electricity rather than £80.
The Polestar is a quicker car in the real world, gets 250 miles to a charge even in the winter when driven below the speed limit and I had been close to 300 when it was warmer.
The C63 is parked in the garage on a trickle charger, it’s not been used much since I got the Polestar. Adore the C63 and the noise it makes but the electric Polestar is a very impressive piece of metal.
Yes it takes longer to refuel the Polestar but I always start with a full tank and 200+ miles gives me over 3 hours of driving (more like 4 hours) before I need to charge. I park, plug in, go for a pee, check my email for 20mins and I’m back to another 200 miles of driving.
The only thing to work out is where the cheaper chargers are as it can get very expensive fast charging on the road.
Murph7355 said:
LeeM135i said:
Got a Polestar 2 LRDM Performance as a co car in September after swearing I didn’t want a milk float but gave in as the BIK on anything petrol and most hybrids has become very expensive.
I had been using my Mercedes C63S so used to big performance and short range and the Polestar ticks both of those boxes but it costs £7 for a tank of electricity rather than £80.
The Polestar is a quicker car in the real world, gets 250 miles to a charge even in the winter when driven below the speed limit and I had been close to 300 when it was warmer.
The C63 is parked in the garage on a trickle charger, it’s not been used much since I got the Polestar. Adore the C63 and the noise it makes but the electric Polestar is a very impressive piece of metal.
Yes it takes longer to refuel the Polestar but I always start with a full tank and 200+ miles gives me over 3 hours of driving (more like 4 hours) before I need to charge. I park, plug in, go for a pee, check my email for 20mins and I’m back to another 200 miles of driving.
The only thing to work out is where the cheaper chargers are as it can get very expensive fast charging on the road.
Heretic! King Gaz and Cerb Lee will be along to burn you soon!I had been using my Mercedes C63S so used to big performance and short range and the Polestar ticks both of those boxes but it costs £7 for a tank of electricity rather than £80.
The Polestar is a quicker car in the real world, gets 250 miles to a charge even in the winter when driven below the speed limit and I had been close to 300 when it was warmer.
The C63 is parked in the garage on a trickle charger, it’s not been used much since I got the Polestar. Adore the C63 and the noise it makes but the electric Polestar is a very impressive piece of metal.
Yes it takes longer to refuel the Polestar but I always start with a full tank and 200+ miles gives me over 3 hours of driving (more like 4 hours) before I need to charge. I park, plug in, go for a pee, check my email for 20mins and I’m back to another 200 miles of driving.
The only thing to work out is where the cheaper chargers are as it can get very expensive fast charging on the road.
PS Cerb Lee has said he loves my C63 so it’s understandable.
LeeM135i said:
Yes it takes longer to refuel the Polestar but I always start with a full tank and 200+ miles gives me over 3 hours of driving (more like 4 hours) before I need to charge. I park, plug in, go for a pee, check my email for 20mins and I’m back to another 200 miles of driving.
Yours must charge much quicker than mine; I've also never got close to 300 miles.Mine is as low as 150 miles in the winter. We won't be getting another one.
Don't get hung up on range. On a longer journey, how many miles do you do between stops? I never do more than about 200 in one go. Mostly because having a break after three hours is a safe thing to do, but I also want to stretch my legs a bit and have a pee. In less than the time I take to do that, my EV is recharged for another 200 miles, because it charges at a comparatively high speed.
So much more important metrics are the max and average DC charging speeds. Many EV's still don't charge faster than about 100 kW, which isn't much. Consult https://ev-database.org/ for comparisons between EV's, including their max and average charging speeds.
So much more important metrics are the max and average DC charging speeds. Many EV's still don't charge faster than about 100 kW, which isn't much. Consult https://ev-database.org/ for comparisons between EV's, including their max and average charging speeds.
TheRainMaker said:
LeeM135i said:
Yes it takes longer to refuel the Polestar but I always start with a full tank and 200+ miles gives me over 3 hours of driving (more like 4 hours) before I need to charge. I park, plug in, go for a pee, check my email for 20mins and I’m back to another 200 miles of driving.
Yours must charge much quicker than mine; I've also never got close to 300 miles.Mine is as low as 150 miles in the winter. We won't be getting another one.
LeeM135i said:
TheRainMaker said:
LeeM135i said:
Yes it takes longer to refuel the Polestar but I always start with a full tank and 200+ miles gives me over 3 hours of driving (more like 4 hours) before I need to charge. I park, plug in, go for a pee, check my email for 20mins and I’m back to another 200 miles of driving.
Yours must charge much quicker than mine; I've also never got close to 300 miles.Mine is as low as 150 miles in the winter. We won't be getting another one.
For my main personal car I went straight from old-school-petrol-auto to a basic EV, no regrets.
The EV also replaced the diesel pool car I was using for business trips.
I still have an older petrol (becoming classic) for a hobby, but I've almost lost interest in it now, it's so archaic. I used to love changing the oil and tinkering; maybe I'm too old now.
I use public chargers to top-up sometimes, on my longer business days; it's not a problem if you plan.
The EV also replaced the diesel pool car I was using for business trips.
I still have an older petrol (becoming classic) for a hobby, but I've almost lost interest in it now, it's so archaic. I used to love changing the oil and tinkering; maybe I'm too old now.
I use public chargers to top-up sometimes, on my longer business days; it's not a problem if you plan.
It depends on your usage really - amongst a few other ICE cars we have a Model Y LR and a Suzuki Across (Rav4 clone). The pure EV Tesla is fine for local running about but I really can't be bothered with public charging on longer trips especially if you venture into more remote areas.
For us, the Across is actually the best of both worlds with 45 to 55m EV range for local journeys on cheap rate electricity and a 550+ mile 50+ mpg range on petrol for hassle free longer journeys and road trips that work out cheaper than public charging. The overall engineering and build quality along with the simplicity and inherent durability of the Toyota hybrid system combined with the long warranty means I'm far more comfortable with the idea of long term ownership too.
It's actually a much better and more grown up car too with a proper relaxed ride, Toyota build quality, a decent interior, less road noise and none of the idiotic Tesla quirks.
For us, the Across is actually the best of both worlds with 45 to 55m EV range for local journeys on cheap rate electricity and a 550+ mile 50+ mpg range on petrol for hassle free longer journeys and road trips that work out cheaper than public charging. The overall engineering and build quality along with the simplicity and inherent durability of the Toyota hybrid system combined with the long warranty means I'm far more comfortable with the idea of long term ownership too.
It's actually a much better and more grown up car too with a proper relaxed ride, Toyota build quality, a decent interior, less road noise and none of the idiotic Tesla quirks.
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