Long distance Europe trips

[Stevemr]

So I am thinking about switching to an EV. Have asked various beginners questions on here and had a lot of very useful information.
So usage is a bit unusual, while at home, we can get a home charger and it should work very well.
However 2 or 3 times a year we do big European trips.
So for example southern Italy is 1800 miles away. Which is 5 days of 350-400 miles driving.
I am looking at an ev3 or 6 Kia with a range of 350 miles.
I am guessing the way to do it is to stop and charge after 100 miles. Drive another 200 miles and stop again to charge, then drive last 100 miles to hotel.
That would work fine, not quite as convenient as diesel, but I could live with that.
However I’ve just heard a couple of horror stories from people driving in Europe basically finding chargers broken, or cables cut off, and it basically being a complete pain, and very stressful!

So if anyone has any experience I would welcome it!

[JD]

https://abetterrouteplanner.com

Go have a play on this incredible website, should tell you all you need to know regarding the big part of the journey.

The deeper you go and more rural you might need to do a bit more research via other means.

But looks like 22 hours driving 3hrs charging for an EV6 with the big battery straight through, but clever planning for your midpoint stop(s) to include charging would knock off some of the wasted charging time.

[Michael_B]

During the past four years of EV ownership (as a sole car) we do a couple of big (1500-2000km) trips a year out of Geneva, although it being a Muskmobile, charging is probably a little more straightforward than using the public networks.

Last April we drove to Altea (between Valencia and Alicante), stopping in Avignon/Barcelona, and last week we went to Florence for 4 days, 400 miles each way (including timing our Mt Blanc tunnel arrivals to miss the queues) and no overnight stops. Xmas 2023 we drove to the UK and spent 10 days driving around East Anglia and the SE, with no destination charging at any of our dinosaur relatives…

These days we tend to arrive at chargers with 15-20% battery and depart with 90-95% as we are usually eating/shopping. e.g. two stops on the way back, Barberino di Mugello and Vicolungo are in outlet shopping centres, so we had a bite and, as we say in French « licked some windows »

An 1800 mile jaunt to Italy will be a bit of a schlep, and will generally be more inconvenient than a petrol/diesel, but if an EV will make your driving easier/cheaper the rest of the year, then that’s the price to pay.

That said, we took only one hour longer Florence-Geneva than our son/daughter and their partners, driving in a Nero hybrid. But they also stopped reasonably frequently as our daughter has been carrying our first grandchild for the past five months

Edited by Michael_B on Saturday 4th January 20:05

[TheDeuce]

JD said:

https://abetterrouteplanner.com

Go have a play on this incredible website, should tell you all you need to know regarding the big part of the journey.

The deeper you go and more rural you might need to do a bit more research via other means.

But looks like 22 hours driving 3hrs charging for an EV6 with the big battery straight through, but clever planning for your midpoint stop(s) to include charging would knock off some of the wasted charging time.

I would think that that the only reason to drive, not fly (or train), would be if the road trip was part of the experience, so 3 hours charging doesn't sound bad at all to me, given that some if not all of it can be done during lunch breaks etc, or at places of interest. Or just overnight at wherever they stay.

I suppose cost could also be another reason to drive instead of fly! But if that was the only reason then spending 4-5 days travelling is itself a cost in terms of time. Also 1800 mile out and back trip in an ICE car isn't exactly cheap.

I have an EV with real world 250 mile range, I'd be happy to do such a trip if there was a reason to drive instead of travel by faster means - I know the charging network across western Europe is very good.

[samoht]

I'd suggest looking out hotels with EV charging, that way you can start each day charged. Then if needed you can charge while stopping for lunch mid-way through each day.

Chargers being broken is something you can check before you set off, it doesn't happen that often. My experience of driving my petrol car in Europe is seeing lots of working EV chargers.

[WestyCarl]

I've done a number of European trips in my EV (Tesla), I stick to the Autoroutes in France and generally find charging availability more frequent and better than the UK.

I never have a specific charging plan but generally stop every 2-3hrs for the toilet / coffee /quick charge and then slightly longer the lunch.

All trips in July which is supposidly peak season.

[Knock_knock]

Last year we did southern England to Occitanie in the Kia eNiro. Spent a pleasant two weeks down there as a family.

Journey was not difficult at all, with plenty of chargers en route and (with one exception) all working fine. Didn't have to queue once, but I deliberately avoided the lunchtime peak by charging before and after. Sat at the speed limits on the motorways and let the traffic aware cruise control do the hard work

I did 1,075km in a day, there and back. So about 670 miles, which honestly was right at my limits of endurance and really took it out of me. Electrical consumption was 3.4 miles/kWh both ways, near as dammit.

As an Octopus customer I used the Electroverse card/app for all my charging as it gave massive coverage across Europe, including (mostly reliable) real-time availability. I used this for my route planning too, in a very similar way to ABRP.

On the way down there was one Aire where the bank of Ionity chargers was completely dead. One local was saying it was the first time this had ever happened and he was embarrassed by it . Fortunately a dozen km down the road was another big Ionity location which was working fine, so it was no drama.

The eNiro has pretty poor DC fast charging speeds, but despite this there was only one charge stop each way that I would say was inconvenient - where I was ready to press on but the car wasn't. The other stops pretty much fitted around a toilet break, leg stretch for five/ten minutes, and picking up a coffee/water. I reckon the journey time was probably no more than 30 minutes longer than it would have been if I'd gone by ICE.

In an EV6 (and maybe the EV3 - I don't know it's charging curve) I would think the car will always be ready before you are!

I found a few of the little French villages had lone charging stations which were a bit hit or miss, and some worked but didn't look like they'd seen use in months before us, whereas others were unreliable. But the towns were very well provisioned.

So if you're only looking to do c. 400 miles a day I would expect little to no problems at all. I like to plan a route carefully, but with the volume of chargers available you could probably wing it and be fine. If possible getting an overnight charge at a hotel so you start with a full charge is definitely the best way.

We're off to Germany this summer in the Kia, and I'm entirely relaxed about this prospect.

[RayDonovan]

I'm doing North of England to Italy in Summer using a Tesla Model Y LR

Mapped out the route already and have identified the faster 250kWh Superchargers but I've also signed up to Fastned who are expanding over Europe rapidly.

Not going to rely on Hotel charging as that can be hit & miss from experience (chargers blocked, not working etc).

[TheDeuce]

I too wouldn't rely on hotel charging, but would check out what's available every time as it's often cheaper and is the perfect way to charge if possible - there's something perfect about dinner and a few glasses of wine knowing that when you wake up the following day you'll have a freshly 'fuelled' car ready to go. Especially in the continent where with the right scheme/sub the cost is also well below that of petrol/diesel.




Although I'd say that zero hotel charging is also not really an issue. In this thread we've talked about how quick it is to put in another 100+ miles in the time it takes to pop to the loo and grab a coffee... But in reality when on a road trip and having driven 4-5 hours already, most people would end up stopping for quite a bit longer than that when they eventually do stop. With a bit of dithering about what to buy for lunch and then browsing a couple of shops, toilet breaks, by the time you get back the car can be nearly charged even on a lowly 150kw charger. I don't believe many people on a 1000 mile+ drive actually treat each stop like a time trial race and are back to their car with an empty bladder and full coffee cup in 5 minutes flat..

[df76]

RayDonovan said:

I'm doing North of England to Italy in Summer using a Tesla Model Y LR

Mapped out the route already and have identified the faster 250kWh Superchargers but I've also signed up to Fastned who are expanding over Europe rapidly.

Not going to rely on Hotel charging as that can be hit & miss from experience (chargers blocked, not working etc).

I looked at doing a European trip and the Supercharger network, the ones accessible to non Teslas, look to be well located and usually just off key motorway junctions. Certainly in France the cost appeared to be about 40 cents per kWh, and you'd get that at very high speed. Plus you can charge at both Eurotunnel terminals, which should save time and give you a head start either side.

[therams]

I’ve been to Nice and back, via lots of other french towns. 3000 miles in a month or so in a tesla model 3. No problem charging at all using the Tesla supercharger network

Not sure it would be so easy in a non tesla. My experience of broken chargers, chargers not recognising your card or app wasn’t great. Tesla was great though

[df76]

therams said:

I’ve been to Nice and back, via lots of other french towns. 3000 miles in a month or so in a tesla model 3. No problem charging at all using the Tesla supercharger network

Not sure it would be so easy in a non tesla. My experience of broken chargers, chargers not recognising your card or app wasn’t great. Tesla was great though

Most Superchargers in France are now fully accessible to non-Teslas. They look a good option for many of us now.

[J__Wood]

Stevemr said:

So if anyone has any experience I would welcome it!

Not my experience but a chap doing similar in an MG5, so not the greatest range/efficiency and going back to the prehistoric charger days of 2021. May give you an idea of how things have improved etc. Also others chipping their experience. https://www.mgevs.com/threads/charging-across-euro...

[RobbyJ]

It's generally easy these days to do long Euro road trips and a lot of the hype around limited or broken chargers is, generally in my experience just hype.

A couple of years ago I did a 730mile trip to southern Germany from the UK in a day no problem (and the same on the way back 10 days later). I charger hopped the whole way taking advantage of the charging curve (i.e. generally speaking the lower the state of charge you arrive at a charger the faster the car will charge, the more the battery 'fills up' the slower it will charge). I'd charge for the minimum amount of time possible to get the the next charger with 2-3% battery to achieve the fastest possible time for the trip.

Now I drive a non Telsa I'm generally a bit more risk averse and allow a bit more buffer at the bottom end of the battery in case the target charger doesn't work. I rarely plan in advance these days though, I just set off and work it out on the way.

[PetrolHeadInRecovery]

We tend to do longish trips quite often; the last summer one was on the longer end, though:



Any EV should do if you limit daily distances to around 400 miles (the extra 15-30 minutes for the one long charging stop of the day probably doesn't matter). If you plan on 600+ mile days, a fast-charging car (e.g., EV6 instead of EV3 out of your options) starts to be nice - we did 850 miles from Denmark to Geneva in one go, so the sub-20-minute charging stops started to matter.

In my experience, the EV-specific stress level is essentially zero after the first proper road trip. Or at leastd least lower than caused by reminding yourself about the correct fuel to fill in before returning an ICE rental...

[RayDonovan]

PetrolHeadInRecovery said:

We tend to do longish trips quite often; the last summer one was on the longer end, though:



Any EV should do if you limit daily distances to around 400 miles (the extra 15-30 minutes for the one long charging stop of the day probably doesn't matter). If you plan on 600+ mile days, a fast-charging car (e.g., EV6 instead of EV3 out of your options) starts to be nice - we did 850 miles from Denmark to Geneva in one go, so the sub-20-minute charging stops started to matter.

In my experience, the EV-specific stress level is essentially zero after the first proper road trip. Or at leastd least lower than caused by reminding yourself about the correct fuel to fill in before returning an ICE rental...

Wow, fair play!

[ZesPak]

Done many euro trips. 1000, 1500 and even 4000km.
Been through Italy couple of times.
here's my two cents:

1. if you're overnighting, make sure you can charge there. Nothing more annoying than waking up and having to drive to charge up for 30 minutes.
2. a decent charge pass will cover most public chargers in Europe, but make sure you check the country beforehand
3. Don't focus on range and charge kw, efficiency and miles/h charging is where it's at. My sister's Model 3 SR is just as fast across the continent as my Model S LR.
4. if you're up on a mountain, don't fully charge it, you'll regret not having the regen on the way down

We absolutely love it for traveling and do so with minimal planning, except for point 1.

[PetrolHeadInRecovery]

RayDonovan said:

PetrolHeadInRecovery said:

We tend to do longish trips quite often; the last summer one was on the longer end, though:



Wow, fair play!

To add a bit of method to the madness:

Our families are spread around Europe, so travelling is a quasi-necessity. We were never big fans of flying and preferred the road trip experience. The earlier rationalisation was that with four persons on board, an ICE car was already more economical and ecological than flying. Getting a dog too heavy for the cabin made flying even less appealing.

Financially, the two years and 58,000km/35,000+ miles with the EV might not have saved much compared to the old diesel car - especially if you consider depreciation. But the "fuel" costs are still a bit lower, lower repair (passing MoT was very much not given), maintenance, road tax costs etc. will probably play a more significant role. Compared to flying, by the time the warranty expires, we should have saved the equivalent of a second-hand battery price (today).

In terms of the environment, my best estimate is that - taking into account manufacturing emissions and carbon intensities of the grids we've been charging the car at - we're at break-even (compared to the scenario where we'd kept the old car) or about 5 tons ahead (compared to air travel). Although this ignores the fact that the old car is still on the road (but hopefully contributed to scrapping a pre-euro-1 car, reducing the overall death print).

[TheDeuce]

PetrolHeadInRecovery said:

RayDonovan said:

PetrolHeadInRecovery said:

We tend to do longish trips quite often; the last summer one was on the longer end, though:

Wow, fair play!

To add a bit of method to the madness:

Our families are spread around Europe, so travelling is a quasi-necessity. We were never big fans of flying and preferred the road trip experience. The earlier rationalisation was that with four persons on board, an ICE car was already more economical and ecological than flying. Getting a dog too heavy for the cabin made flying even less appealing.

Financially, the two years and 58,000km/35,000+ miles with the EV might not have saved much compared to the old diesel car - especially if you consider depreciation. But the "fuel" costs are still a bit lower, lower repair (passing MoT was very much not given), maintenance, road tax costs etc. will probably play a more significant role. Compared to flying, by the time the warranty expires, we should have saved the equivalent of a second-hand battery price (today).

In terms of the environment, my best estimate is that - taking into account manufacturing emissions and carbon intensities of the grids we've been charging the car at - we're at break-even (compared to the scenario where we'd kept the old car) or about 5 tons ahead (compared to air travel). Although this ignores the fact that the old car is still on the road (but hopefully contributed to scrapping a pre-euro-1 car, reducing the overall death print).

All makes sense! I'm guessing you also prefer the EV driving experience the old diesel, and of course your EV will serve you for many years more, ahead of the battery needing any sort of attention, so you be quids in on all bases.

[LeeM135i]

Did Dusseldorf and back in the Polestar in October which is only 330 miles (6 hours) each way. Left home with 100% stopped and charged when I had lunch on the way out at around 15%. The hotel I stayed in had chargers so charged up to 100% over night. Then a quick splash and dash (volt and bolt) on the way home.

Longest road trip so far has been to Stirling Scotland, VIA a couple of other cities. Journey was around 600 miles each way and I found my bladder gave out before the car ran out of electricity. I just plugged it in while I had a pee, grabbed a coffee and checked my email and it was back to 80%. None of my stops were longer than they would have been in a petrol powered car.

Only 4 real learning from both trips

1. 80-100% charge (on the Polestar) is slow so I always work to 200 miles max between 80-10%.
2. Charging on the road is really expensive in the UK compared to the EU.
3. Tesla superchargers are by far the cheapest even if you have to go off the motorway network to find one (In a non Tesla). Pay for the subscription!
4. Don't charge in the morning as the battery is cold from being left overnight so takes longer to charge.