Is There A Way Of Viewing Shareholder History Change?
Discussion
Greetings all the way from New Zealand.
I'm writing this post in the business section of a UK-based motoring website for a very specific reason.
Long story short, I have a commercial dispute with a business in New Zealand. My services were engaged to do work for an NZ company, where the managing director of that business (at the time the work was commissioned) had a shareholding in a UK-based company.
The actual work itself (of a consulting nature) was done for the benefit of the UK-based company but the billing relationship/contract is in NZ, between two NZ-based companies. He explained it was easier to manage this way, but also I suspect there is an element of him having wanted to accrue expenses against his very profitable NZ company which would reduce taxable profit, while keeping them off an effective startup company in the UK.
I was paid over the course of several years for a set scope of work each year. Each invoice paid promptly, never an issue.
My last invoice he said he'd pay but did say I needed to stop work, but then immediately refused payment when the invoice was sent.
His argument is that he is no longer a shareholder/investor of the UK company and as such I need to pursue the UK company for payment.
Unfortunately we haven't been able to resolve this dispute, and I'll probably need to take it to our small claims tribunal here in NZ (because the law - from what I can tell - is clear that his business still needs to pay).
However, to support my case I'm trying to work out when his shareholding ceased. I can see he is no longer a shareholder using the UK Companies House website, but unlike the NZ Companies Register there doesn't appear to be any note/update made when the shareholding changes (here, whenever the shareholding is adjusted e.g. shares transferred from one party to another, there is a public record of this).
Is there any way to find such data in the UK? What I'm hoping to prove here is that his shareholding was removed after he agreed for the upcoming year of work, if that makes sense?
Any insight would be much appreciated. Maybe this isn't possible and I'll have to do without, but interested to try and find this data if I can.
EDIT:
If it helps, I can see in the first 'Confirmation Statement' for the company (filed in Feb 2020) the particular individual's shareholding listed. There have been confirmation statements for 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024 and 2025 (all filed in January of the relevant year) with "no updates".
Does this mean he may still have a shareholding? If my ChatGPT-ing is correct, the UK system should denote any shareholding changes in the most recent Confirmation Statement? In the NZ companies register it's a bit easier to use as you just click the shareholding tab on any company and view the most up-to-date data.
I'm writing this post in the business section of a UK-based motoring website for a very specific reason.
Long story short, I have a commercial dispute with a business in New Zealand. My services were engaged to do work for an NZ company, where the managing director of that business (at the time the work was commissioned) had a shareholding in a UK-based company.
The actual work itself (of a consulting nature) was done for the benefit of the UK-based company but the billing relationship/contract is in NZ, between two NZ-based companies. He explained it was easier to manage this way, but also I suspect there is an element of him having wanted to accrue expenses against his very profitable NZ company which would reduce taxable profit, while keeping them off an effective startup company in the UK.
I was paid over the course of several years for a set scope of work each year. Each invoice paid promptly, never an issue.
My last invoice he said he'd pay but did say I needed to stop work, but then immediately refused payment when the invoice was sent.
His argument is that he is no longer a shareholder/investor of the UK company and as such I need to pursue the UK company for payment.
Unfortunately we haven't been able to resolve this dispute, and I'll probably need to take it to our small claims tribunal here in NZ (because the law - from what I can tell - is clear that his business still needs to pay).
However, to support my case I'm trying to work out when his shareholding ceased. I can see he is no longer a shareholder using the UK Companies House website, but unlike the NZ Companies Register there doesn't appear to be any note/update made when the shareholding changes (here, whenever the shareholding is adjusted e.g. shares transferred from one party to another, there is a public record of this).
Is there any way to find such data in the UK? What I'm hoping to prove here is that his shareholding was removed after he agreed for the upcoming year of work, if that makes sense?
Any insight would be much appreciated. Maybe this isn't possible and I'll have to do without, but interested to try and find this data if I can.
EDIT:
If it helps, I can see in the first 'Confirmation Statement' for the company (filed in Feb 2020) the particular individual's shareholding listed. There have been confirmation statements for 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024 and 2025 (all filed in January of the relevant year) with "no updates".
Does this mean he may still have a shareholding? If my ChatGPT-ing is correct, the UK system should denote any shareholding changes in the most recent Confirmation Statement? In the NZ companies register it's a bit easier to use as you just click the shareholding tab on any company and view the most up-to-date data.
Edited by samjaynz on Friday 2nd May 04:35
I looked at a company that I had some dealings with, and where some shares were sold, and in that case there is an entry in the Companies House filing history which says "Annual return made up to 19 September 2015 with full list of shareholders". This is the first annual return after the shares were sold, and it shows, for each shareholder, something like:
0 ordinary shares held as at 2015-09-19
7 shares transferred on 2014-12-05
Name of shareholder
So you can see that shareholder got rid of all their shares, and the date on which it happened.
As you've looked on the CH web site, I expect you'd have found this for the company you're interested in, if it was there.
0 ordinary shares held as at 2015-09-19
7 shares transferred on 2014-12-05
Name of shareholder
So you can see that shareholder got rid of all their shares, and the date on which it happened.
As you've looked on the CH web site, I expect you'd have found this for the company you're interested in, if it was there.
samjaynz said:
Greetings all the way from New Zealand.
I'm writing this post in the business section of a UK-based motoring website for a very specific reason.
Long story short, I have a commercial dispute with a business in New Zealand. My services were engaged to do work for an NZ company, where the managing director of that business (at the time the work was commissioned) had a shareholding in a UK-based company.
The actual work itself (of a consulting nature) was done for the benefit of the UK-based company but the billing relationship/contract is in NZ, between two NZ-based companies. He explained it was easier to manage this way, but also I suspect there is an element of him having wanted to accrue expenses against his very profitable NZ company which would reduce taxable profit, while keeping them off an effective startup company in the UK.
I was paid over the course of several years for a set scope of work each year. Each invoice paid promptly, never an issue.
My last invoice he said he'd pay but did say I needed to stop work, but then immediately refused payment when the invoice was sent.
His argument is that he is no longer a shareholder/investor of the UK company and as such I need to pursue the UK company for payment.
Unfortunately we haven't been able to resolve this dispute, and I'll probably need to take it to our small claims tribunal here in NZ (because the law - from what I can tell - is clear that his business still needs to pay).
However, to support my case I'm trying to work out when his shareholding ceased. I can see he is no longer a shareholder using the UK Companies House website, but unlike the NZ Companies Register there doesn't appear to be any note/update made when the shareholding changes (here, whenever the shareholding is adjusted e.g. shares transferred from one party to another, there is a public record of this).
Is there any way to find such data in the UK? What I'm hoping to prove here is that his shareholding was removed after he agreed for the upcoming year of work, if that makes sense?
Any insight would be much appreciated. Maybe this isn't possible and I'll have to do without, but interested to try and find this data if I can.
EDIT:
If it helps, I can see in the first 'Confirmation Statement' for the company (filed in Feb 2020) the particular individual's shareholding listed. There have been confirmation statements for 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024 and 2025 (all filed in January of the relevant year) with "no updates".
Does this mean he may still have a shareholding? If my ChatGPT-ing is correct, the UK system should denote any shareholding changes in the most recent Confirmation Statement? In the NZ companies register it's a bit easier to use as you just click the shareholding tab on any company and view the most up-to-date data.
This seems to be a simple contractual question. You chase the organisation you are contracted with. Unless the contract states the work is for the UK company and to be paid by the UK company it should be relatively simple.I'm writing this post in the business section of a UK-based motoring website for a very specific reason.
Long story short, I have a commercial dispute with a business in New Zealand. My services were engaged to do work for an NZ company, where the managing director of that business (at the time the work was commissioned) had a shareholding in a UK-based company.
The actual work itself (of a consulting nature) was done for the benefit of the UK-based company but the billing relationship/contract is in NZ, between two NZ-based companies. He explained it was easier to manage this way, but also I suspect there is an element of him having wanted to accrue expenses against his very profitable NZ company which would reduce taxable profit, while keeping them off an effective startup company in the UK.
I was paid over the course of several years for a set scope of work each year. Each invoice paid promptly, never an issue.
My last invoice he said he'd pay but did say I needed to stop work, but then immediately refused payment when the invoice was sent.
His argument is that he is no longer a shareholder/investor of the UK company and as such I need to pursue the UK company for payment.
Unfortunately we haven't been able to resolve this dispute, and I'll probably need to take it to our small claims tribunal here in NZ (because the law - from what I can tell - is clear that his business still needs to pay).
However, to support my case I'm trying to work out when his shareholding ceased. I can see he is no longer a shareholder using the UK Companies House website, but unlike the NZ Companies Register there doesn't appear to be any note/update made when the shareholding changes (here, whenever the shareholding is adjusted e.g. shares transferred from one party to another, there is a public record of this).
Is there any way to find such data in the UK? What I'm hoping to prove here is that his shareholding was removed after he agreed for the upcoming year of work, if that makes sense?
Any insight would be much appreciated. Maybe this isn't possible and I'll have to do without, but interested to try and find this data if I can.
EDIT:
If it helps, I can see in the first 'Confirmation Statement' for the company (filed in Feb 2020) the particular individual's shareholding listed. There have been confirmation statements for 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024 and 2025 (all filed in January of the relevant year) with "no updates".
Does this mean he may still have a shareholding? If my ChatGPT-ing is correct, the UK system should denote any shareholding changes in the most recent Confirmation Statement? In the NZ companies register it's a bit easier to use as you just click the shareholding tab on any company and view the most up-to-date data.
Edited by samjaynz on Friday 2nd May 04:35
MustangGT said:
This seems to be a simple contractual question. You chase the organisation you are contracted with. Unless the contract states the work is for the UK company and to be paid by the UK company it should be relatively simple.
Yes, you would think so. It seems a very simple matter. A business contracted me to provide services, and paid happily for such services for over five years. It wanted to end the services but said it would pay the last invoice. The director of this business then had a change of heart. The issue is the guy I am dealing with is obstinate beyond belief. He was decent enough to deal with until last year (my understanding is he has effectively lost his investment in the UK company, and the money he has paid my business is in addition to the initial investment - this was the catalyst for attitude change) and since then has been a total nightmare to deal with.
I've been threatened with legal action for "obstruction" of his business (apparently sending a few emails and phone calls asking for payment has cost him financially and emotionally and negatively affected his earning capability, and I should be lucky I haven't been sued for doing so).
I've been accused of fraudulent behaviour by the director of the UK company, who says what I've charged (to the NZ company, on the UK company's behalf) is 10x higher than what has actually been charged. I suspect he may even be submitting altered invoices to the UK company, effectively putting pressure on them to pay him back for his lost investment. The UK company backed down on that accusation pretty quickly when I suggested they send me their invoice trail, and I provided mine.
The whole thing is nuts, over what is actually a small invoice.
The thing is the only resolution I can see now is to take this to Disputes Tribunal (NZ Small Claims court) - and as such, even though I don't believe the argument that he has no investment in the company any more holds any water anyway, I want to determine the status of his shareholding. If he is still a shareholder, he must have some investment in the company.
I am just trying to line all my ducks up in a row, so that when I present my evidence to the Disputes Tribunal it's extremely clear that none of his story stacks up.
Simpo Two said:
They just don't want to pay. I don't see whether your client is a shareholder or not makes a blind bit of difference. Your contract is with the company he works/worked for, not him personally. Presumably you have something in writing confirming that work?
I completely agree that his being a shareholder (or not) in the UK makes no difference to the contractual obligation to pay in NZ. But I'll need to go to Disputes Tribunal/Small Claims, and if I'm able to prove he is still a shareholder in the company (whereas in writing he stated he divested all investment) it further adds credibility to my argument, or at least takes away from his. Gassing Station | Business | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff