RE: Rimac reveals 'groundbreaking' solid-state tech
RE: Rimac reveals 'groundbreaking' solid-state tech
Monday 8th September

Rimac reveals 'groundbreaking' solid-state tech

New batteries and eAxles promise unmatched efficiency and power density; the latter in production next year


Solid-state battery technology has been discussed for a while now as the next big step forward in EV technology, with better density packing more energy into the same amount of space, and permitting much quicker charge times. But thus far it hasn’t meaningfully made the move from theory to production. Now Rimac Technology has revealed its own ‘solid-state solution’, built with Mitsubishi Chemical Group and ProLogium, at the IAA Mobility show. 

The advantages seem pretty persuasive, creating a battery platform that is ‘lighter, safer and more energy-dense.’ Moreover, rather than some future ambition, Rimac believes its solid-state offering is ‘the immediate future of high-performance battery systems.’ It can claim that because the new solution actually uses some existing hardware, specifically 46XX Gen2 NMC cells; they can now be packaged and cooled more efficiently, thus improving performance. Rimac says its new layout can combine those 46XX cells with ‘power-dense’ 2170 items with ‘interchangeable cell configurations’, presumably dependent on the requirements of the installation. Maybe a hard one to get truly pumped about on a Monday morning, but given the proliferation of Rimac tech right now, collaborating with everyone from BMW to Aston Martin, the solid-state stuff is definitely worth having an awareness of. Because you're going to be hearing more about it. 

Alongside the batteries, Rimac Technology has also shown new electric axles at Munich. Based on the Scalable Powertrain Platform, the claims for the Sinteg 300 and 550 are pretty remarkable: it says power density is now more than 10hp per kilo, with its new rotor design (which is patented) meaning ‘unprecedented torque and power in a package which fits into carry-on luggage’. The new axles will be offered with anything up to 489hp (360kW) for everything from sports cars to SUVs; with that power density factored in, that means less than 50kg for an electric axle of that potency. Ally it to a solid-state battery solution and we’ll have cars back under two tonnes before you know it. 

And that really could be sooner than expected, Rimac Technology stating that a version of the 550 - officially the Dual EM EDU 550 eAxle - will go into series production next year for ‘a global OEM.’ Like we said, maybe not as exhilarating as another Nevera racing a Koenigsegg to 250mph and back again, but much more important to Rimac’s future as a tech business. Nurdin Pitarevi?, COO of Rimac Technology, added: "What we're showcasing at IAA represents the convergence of breakthrough innovation and production readiness. These aren't simply concept technologies; they’ve been developed to be production-ready solutions that will power hundreds of thousands of vehicles in the coming years."


Author
Discussion

Frimley111R

Original Poster:

17,588 posts

252 months

Monday 8th September
quotequote all
Oh look, we're going to be doing SS batteries

When?

Soon.

(Repeat annually)

Crudeoink

1,128 posts

77 months

Monday 8th September
quotequote all
Article said:
creating a battery platform that is ‘lighter, safer and more energy-dense.
How much lighter, safer and energy dense? Is there any point writing an article that says 'Company makes thing better' but not actually telling us how much better?

phil4

1,526 posts

256 months

Monday 8th September
quotequote all
It's not even clear what is SS... it sounds like only part of it is:

"the new solution actually uses some existing hardware, specifically 46XX Gen2 NMC cells; they can now be packaged and cooled more efficiently, thus improving performance. Rimac says its new layout can combine those 46XX cells with ‘power-dense’ 2170 items". ie a load of NMC which aren't SS, and some 2170 that might be SS.

Makes you wonder why it's not entirely SS. Availability? Limitation of some sort?

The reason I'm cynical is a) lots of people keep claiming solid state and it's not and b) lots of "revolutionary" battery tech has been revealed, but it never quite is, yes, in once aspect, but a huge backward step in another. eg. one that's double the capacity and half the size... but can't be recharged.

chrisironside

862 posts

180 months

Monday 8th September
quotequote all
"another post about EVs, they might as well rename the site Batteryheads"
"Yawn"
"I'd rather have a V8 please"
"I'll die before I buy an electric car"
etc etc

I think anyone more excited by a Vauxhall Monaro than a Rimac Nevera needs their sanity checked.
Look forward to seeing what Rimac & Co do with this technology next.

DonkeyApple

64,232 posts

187 months

Monday 8th September
quotequote all
phil4 said:
It's not even clear what is SS... it sounds like only part of it is:

"the new solution actually uses some existing hardware, specifically 46XX Gen2 NMC cells; they can now be packaged and cooled more efficiently, thus improving performance. Rimac says its new layout can combine those 46XX cells with ‘power-dense’ 2170 items". ie a load of NMC which aren't SS, and some 2170 that might be SS.

Makes you wonder why it's not entirely SS. Availability? Limitation of some sort?

The reason I'm cynical is a) lots of people keep claiming solid state and it's not and b) lots of "revolutionary" battery tech has been revealed, but it never quite is, yes, in once aspect, but a huge backward step in another. eg. one that's double the capacity and half the size... but can't be recharged.
Yup. The article is really about how blending different cell technologies can work better for different applications.

Energy density of wet cells is now matching what solid state was going to achieve on paper but you can smash a charge into an SS cell more quickly as well as discharge more quickly along with some other advantages.

loudlashadjuster

5,776 posts

202 months

Monday 8th September
quotequote all
Define 'solid state', please wink

BigChiefmuffinAgain

1,464 posts

116 months

Monday 8th September
quotequote all
This article was very long on product codes and names and very short on what effect any of this stuff will have in the real world...

loudlashadjuster

5,776 posts

202 months

Monday 8th September
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
Yup. The article is really about how blending different cell technologies can work better for different applications.
That's what CATL were pimping the other week too. Hybrid packs with sodium and NMC cells so that you still get good charge/discharge rates when you need them, but excellent low temperature performance, and at a much lower cost.

DonkeyApple said:
Energy density of wet cells is now matching what solid state was going to achieve on paper but you can smash a charge into an SS cell more quickly as well as discharge more quickly along with some other advantages.
I think the theoretical energy density of solid state remains much higher than current or predicted wet cells though?

murphyaj

1,108 posts

93 months

Monday 8th September
quotequote all
loudlashadjuster said:
DonkeyApple said:
DonkeyApple said:
Energy density of wet cells is now matching what solid state was going to achieve on paper but you can smash a charge into an SS cell more quickly as well as discharge more quickly along with some other advantages.
I think the theoretical energy density of solid state remains much higher than current or predicted wet cells though?
i think a new tesla battery will manage around 250 to 300 wh/kg, and i have seen reports that 350 wh/kg should be achievable from lithium wet cells, but by that point we are getting close to what is achievable, it's unlikely they will go much beyond that. SS could, in theory, get up to 1000 wh/kg, which is a massive increase. But we are a fair way away from that in practical batteries that can be produced at scale.

So yes, current wet cells can achieve energy densities which match SS, but the theoretical limit of SS is much higher. High enough that in terms of kg of energy storage medium you need to lug around to travel per 100 miles, it could actually beat petrol.

The important thing to point out is that it won't be a "big bang" change. Some people think the change between wet cells and solid state is going to be like the change between cathode TVs and flatscreen TVs, where the technology is released and it is suddently a gamechanger, but it won't be like that. SS and wet cells are both being developed at pace, and at some point a crossover will occur where SS is commercially viable at scale at a performance that beats wet cells. That should be followed by incremental improvements that see better and better batteries released, just as we have seen with existing cell techology, where even a cheap modern EV has a vastly better battery than, say, a 2010 Nissan Leaf.

Edited by murphyaj on Monday 8th September 13:14

Wardy78

1,795 posts

76 months

Monday 8th September
quotequote all
Don't let technological advancement get in the way of having a good moan.

I wonder if Nicolaus Otto faced the same level of negativity from 'SteamHeads - boiler pressure matters' in the 1870s?

Terminator X

18,319 posts

222 months

Monday 8th September
quotequote all
Frimley111R said:
Oh look, we're going to be doing SS batteries

When?

Soon.

(Repeat annually)
Next year eh. Always next year.

The EV fanboys have been talking Miracle Batteries on here for at least 10 years rofl

TX.

SDK

1,950 posts

271 months

Monday 8th September
quotequote all
Terminator X said:
Frimley111R said:
Oh look, we're going to be doing SS batteries

When?

Soon.

(Repeat annually)
Next year eh. Always next year.

The EV fanboys have been talking Miracle Batteries on here for at least 10 years rofl

TX.
Think you’re confusing the people here with Toyota !

ChocolateFrog

32,785 posts

191 months

Monday 8th September
quotequote all
Frimley111R said:
Oh look, we're going to be doing SS batteries

When?

Soon.

(Repeat annually)
We really are at the point where I want to say give me a poke when I can actually buy a reasonably priced car with one fitted.


scrapped

79 posts

39 months

Monday 8th September
quotequote all
Frimley111R said:
Oh look, we're going to be doing SS batteries

When?

Soon.

(Repeat annually)
Don't expect much insight beyond the press release on Pistonheads.

However, this development does make sense of the huge valuation placed on Rimac, and presumably is what got Porsche excited a few years ago.

Maybe, just maybe, this is the breakthrough.

WCZ

11,173 posts

212 months

Monday 8th September
quotequote all
10hp per kg sounds insane, so a 100kg battery chucking out 1000hp?


sidesauce

2,950 posts

236 months

Monday 8th September
quotequote all
Terminator X said:
Frimley111R said:
Oh look, we're going to be doing SS batteries

When?

Soon.

(Repeat annually)
Next year eh. Always next year.

The EV fanboys have been talking Miracle Batteries on here for at least 10 years rofl

TX.
Mitsubishi's i-MiEV was the first publicly available BEV, going on sale in 2010. What we've seen in the past 15 years of tech advancing for this space is a rate of progress ICE technology simply cannot match, even on its best day.

Scoff all you want but we'll all live to see the evolution of SS battery tech being adopted for use in passenger cars, quite likely coming from either CATL or BYD.

GT9

8,143 posts

190 months

Monday 8th September
quotequote all
WCZ said:
10hp per kg sounds insane, so a 100kg battery chucking out 1000hp?
That's for the motor/s, not the battery.
It's not clear which of the following that actually includes: motor, integrated controls, casings and reduction gearing.

Wardy78

1,795 posts

76 months

Monday 8th September
quotequote all
WCZ said:
10hp per kg sounds insane, so a 100kg battery chucking out 1000hp?
No that's the axles (i.e, the drive 'bit', the engine). No idea what current hp/kg is being achieved?

GT9

8,143 posts

190 months

Monday 8th September
quotequote all
Terminator X said:
Next year eh. Always next year.

The EV fanboys have been talking Miracle Batteries on here for at least 10 years rofl

TX.
10 years is an exaggeration.
How close to a miracle does it need to be anyway before you throw in the towel?
Arguably the NCMA-based battery in the Mercedes AMG GT XX that recently did the '186 mph for 8 days' and recharged at 850kW average power in between is pretty damn close.

Wardy78

1,795 posts

76 months

Monday 8th September
quotequote all
GT9 said:
Terminator X said:
Next year eh. Always next year.

The EV fanboys have been talking Miracle Batteries on here for at least 10 years rofl

TX.
10 years is an exaggeration.
How close to a miracle does it need to be anyway before you throw in the towel?
Arguably the NCMA-based battery in the Mercedes AMG GT XX that recently did the '186 mph for 8 days' and recharged at 850kW average power in between is pretty damn close.
TX will never have the towel in the first place in this game. He just has anti-EV Tourettes, randomly shouting bks. An EV could offer 1000 miles range, engagement like a Caterham and recharge quicker than he can zip up a beige cardigan, there will still be something wrong with it. wink