Discussion
Does anyone use a dehumidifier in their garage to keep their Tiv free from damp?
I have an unheated timber garage with a bare concrete floor. I intend to paint the floor to stop moisture rising up through it, but I'm still concerned about condensation in there.
I went in the other day and the chassis was covered in condensation (although I did have some moisture getting in under the doors which I have now sorted out with a french drain). I use the car at weekends and every now and again during the week - and I will continue to do so over the winter.
I'm not sure whether just putting a greenhouse heater in there would do the job?
I know I would need a dehumdifier with hot gas defrost so it will work down to freezing point. Does anyone have any experience of these things they can share? How effective are they versus a small heater?
Thanks
Andy
I have an unheated timber garage with a bare concrete floor. I intend to paint the floor to stop moisture rising up through it, but I'm still concerned about condensation in there.
I went in the other day and the chassis was covered in condensation (although I did have some moisture getting in under the doors which I have now sorted out with a french drain). I use the car at weekends and every now and again during the week - and I will continue to do so over the winter.
I'm not sure whether just putting a greenhouse heater in there would do the job?
I know I would need a dehumdifier with hot gas defrost so it will work down to freezing point. Does anyone have any experience of these things they can share? How effective are they versus a small heater?
Thanks
Andy
The horse rug drier has been relegated to the greenhouse.
Two very wet and muddy horse rugs on a huge electric towel rail overnight in the garage = mega condensation = water running off in the garage.
TVR + rug drier = definite grounds for separation. Fortunately the greenhouse was a solution, so Melanie gets to stay
Two very wet and muddy horse rugs on a huge electric towel rail overnight in the garage = mega condensation = water running off in the garage.
TVR + rug drier = definite grounds for separation. Fortunately the greenhouse was a solution, so Melanie gets to stay
Probably your best bet for reducing condensation is to increase ventilation. This will also make a dehumidifier's job harder but unless your garage is draught free, a dehumidifier will struggle anyway. Heating will help but will cost a bit in your garage but unless it's electric heating, the problem will only get worse as mentioned below. Insulation will help too, if its practicable.
Regards
Garry
Regards
Garry
I run a dehumidifier & a small radiator type heater in my garage. Keeps it nice & dry inside (the air is noticeably crisp) for appx 250 quid outlay.
My garage gets a bit of rain water inside (under the door, it's at the bottom of a steep drive) so if it works there it should be ok most places.
My garage gets a bit of rain water inside (under the door, it's at the bottom of a steep drive) so if it works there it should be ok most places.
Not strictly relevant to a garage, but I bought a B&Q 99-quid special earlier this year because I only have one window that opens (in the bathroom) - all the rest are patio doors so you can't leave them open.
Then I went one better and bought an air-con split-system that had been used to cool a computer suite for 10 months. The mobile dehumidifier can shift up to 10 litres a day (in practise I've never seen it do more than 3-4) and the aircon can suck 2.5L/ hour!
So they do work; I can recommend the little B&Q one, if only for stuff like laundry, you won't believe how much water is in the air till you empty it down the sink!
Ian
Then I went one better and bought an air-con split-system that had been used to cool a computer suite for 10 months. The mobile dehumidifier can shift up to 10 litres a day (in practise I've never seen it do more than 3-4) and the aircon can suck 2.5L/ hour!
So they do work; I can recommend the little B&Q one, if only for stuff like laundry, you won't believe how much water is in the air till you empty it down the sink!
Ian
As I understand it, a heater won't help; it will increase the moisture carrying capacity of the air and accelerate rust formation. People who get a great deal more neurotic about it than me use a dehumidifier to get RH to 50% or so (and drier and it will dessicate your leather) and keep it cool (slows down rust formation), but above freezing. I use a domestic dehudifier in mine; if you've got a real damp problem and you need to have it on for prolonged periods, get one that can vent to a drain instead of an internal tank.
Another solution is one of these built-in vent systems you see advertised in the back of classic car magazines. Not tried them so can't help here.
Kevin
Another solution is one of these built-in vent systems you see advertised in the back of classic car magazines. Not tried them so can't help here.
Kevin
Hmmmm... my thinking has been that the warm air can absorb more moisture, and circulation currents are set up that pass more air through the dehumidifier, allowing it to remove said moisture.
Seems to work better drying clothes in here if I have the central heating on as well.
Maybe I'm doing it wrong?
Ian
Seems to work better drying clothes in here if I have the central heating on as well.
Maybe I'm doing it wrong?
Ian
I agree with GarryM, having had a wooden garage erected, I reckon it took about a year for the concrete to properly dry out, I made sure that there was ventilation under the doors, but used to rest bits of wood behind the door to stop leaves, etc blowing under and put in air vents aboe the doors towards the roof. This allowed the air to circulate through the garage and I never had the damp/condensation problem again.
davidy
davidy
AFAIK the idea isn't to remove every scrap of moisture from the air, it's to reduce the RH below the point where it will condense on cold metallic surfaces and promote rot. If you go too far you will dry out leather and other stuff. It's no surprise that you get more water out of warm air since there more moisture there in the first place. Agree it's very satisfying to empty out the cannister when it's full of water though!
What I tend to do is use the dehumidifier O/N in a warm garage after I've washed the car and put it away, then leave it cool and dry until I next use it. No evidence that this makes a scrap of difference mind......
Along the lines of using silicia gel, I've just seen an ad for what amounts to a sealed tarpaulin in which you place your car along with cannisters of dessicant. Can't remember the name of it but it's in the current edition of Classic & Sports Car. Looks a pain in the arse to me.
What I tend to do is use the dehumidifier O/N in a warm garage after I've washed the car and put it away, then leave it cool and dry until I next use it. No evidence that this makes a scrap of difference mind......
Along the lines of using silicia gel, I've just seen an ad for what amounts to a sealed tarpaulin in which you place your car along with cannisters of dessicant. Can't remember the name of it but it's in the current edition of Classic & Sports Car. Looks a pain in the arse to me.
have been thinking about this myself, having an open bay barn /garage erected in the new year,
do you think it would need any measures regarding moisture as it will have pretty good ventilation being open , but at the same time it is in quite a damp area( surrounded by trees)??
have thought about a 'carcoon' type device, but they're not cheap and the girlfriend is taking the P**s already ...any other suggestions?
would a simple car cover prevent moistrure getting underneath to the chassis( wouldnt have thought so but??), or would it actually make thing worse by trapping moisture around the car??
any comments would be very appreciated.
S
do you think it would need any measures regarding moisture as it will have pretty good ventilation being open , but at the same time it is in quite a damp area( surrounded by trees)??
have thought about a 'carcoon' type device, but they're not cheap and the girlfriend is taking the P**s already ...any other suggestions?
would a simple car cover prevent moistrure getting underneath to the chassis( wouldnt have thought so but??), or would it actually make thing worse by trapping moisture around the car??
any comments would be very appreciated.
S
Well this thread seems to have developed over night....
I had a number of thoughts.
1) Timber garage is quite good as its natural insulating properties mean the temperature changes are fairly slow. More insulation will help
2) Untreated concrete floor is bad as moisture will always rise up through it. In my case a minor flood a few weeks ago means there is more moisture than normal. Flood defences now installed and moisture ingress at front dealt with.
3) The key to all of this is keeping the car, particularly the metal bits, at the same, or slightly higher temperature than the air in the garage. Problems arise when the temperature in the garage rises faster than the chassis, as moisture will then condense on the car.
4) I could heat the garage - which initially would cause condensation but once everything in the garage was the same temp (i.e. higher than the outside temp) it would do a reasonable job. My guess is that I would only need it a couple of degrees higher than outside - so a v small background heater on constantly may do the trick. The key is to keep it all constant though - so if I am in and out of the garage all the time this could be difficult.
Can someone explain to me why a paraffin heater will create moisture? I have seen some frost guard greenhouse 'sump' heaters that run for about 2 weeks on one fill and ony cost about £12 to buy.... seemed a cheaper option than electric.
5) Dehumdifiers work by creating an airflow and passing incoming air through a condenser and then expelling the drier air, at a slightly higher temperature than it entered. There are units on the market advertised for unheated areas such as garages, boats etc - with a facility to stop them freezing up in very cold weather. This seems to be the 'gold plated' solution. Although my garage is a bit draughty, it is not excessively so, so I will not be trying to dry out all the air in South Oxfordshire... The unit I am considering also has a humidity setting so that I can guarantee I won't dry out the leather and dash veneer.
I am coming to the conclusion the following may be the best solution:
1) paint the concrete floor with a waterproof paint
2) install some really low background heat (still don't know whether electric or paraffin is best?)
3) when I first put the car in there - particularly if I have just washed it or been out in the rain - run a dehumidifier in there for a day or so.
4) the rest of the time leave the heater on constant low heat, and use the dehumdifier in the house to stop mould forming on the shower room ceiling....
Added advantage would be my tools will stop rusting and the cardboard boxes in the garage (and my golf bag) will not be soggy and full of mildew.
Can anyone help on the paraffin v electric question?
P.S. For what it is worth, I don't think any car cover will control condensation - not unless the cover is an airtight 'bag' which you drive the car into. Otherwise air will flow under the car and condense on the chassis anyway. The only thing the breathable covers are good for is letting moisture out - so in theory you could put one on a damp car. Personally I'd always let the car dry first.
I had a number of thoughts.
1) Timber garage is quite good as its natural insulating properties mean the temperature changes are fairly slow. More insulation will help
2) Untreated concrete floor is bad as moisture will always rise up through it. In my case a minor flood a few weeks ago means there is more moisture than normal. Flood defences now installed and moisture ingress at front dealt with.
3) The key to all of this is keeping the car, particularly the metal bits, at the same, or slightly higher temperature than the air in the garage. Problems arise when the temperature in the garage rises faster than the chassis, as moisture will then condense on the car.
4) I could heat the garage - which initially would cause condensation but once everything in the garage was the same temp (i.e. higher than the outside temp) it would do a reasonable job. My guess is that I would only need it a couple of degrees higher than outside - so a v small background heater on constantly may do the trick. The key is to keep it all constant though - so if I am in and out of the garage all the time this could be difficult.
Can someone explain to me why a paraffin heater will create moisture? I have seen some frost guard greenhouse 'sump' heaters that run for about 2 weeks on one fill and ony cost about £12 to buy.... seemed a cheaper option than electric.
5) Dehumdifiers work by creating an airflow and passing incoming air through a condenser and then expelling the drier air, at a slightly higher temperature than it entered. There are units on the market advertised for unheated areas such as garages, boats etc - with a facility to stop them freezing up in very cold weather. This seems to be the 'gold plated' solution. Although my garage is a bit draughty, it is not excessively so, so I will not be trying to dry out all the air in South Oxfordshire... The unit I am considering also has a humidity setting so that I can guarantee I won't dry out the leather and dash veneer.
I am coming to the conclusion the following may be the best solution:
1) paint the concrete floor with a waterproof paint
2) install some really low background heat (still don't know whether electric or paraffin is best?)
3) when I first put the car in there - particularly if I have just washed it or been out in the rain - run a dehumidifier in there for a day or so.
4) the rest of the time leave the heater on constant low heat, and use the dehumdifier in the house to stop mould forming on the shower room ceiling....
Added advantage would be my tools will stop rusting and the cardboard boxes in the garage (and my golf bag) will not be soggy and full of mildew.
Can anyone help on the paraffin v electric question?
P.S. For what it is worth, I don't think any car cover will control condensation - not unless the cover is an airtight 'bag' which you drive the car into. Otherwise air will flow under the car and condense on the chassis anyway. The only thing the breathable covers are good for is letting moisture out - so in theory you could put one on a damp car. Personally I'd always let the car dry first.
"Can someone explain to me why a paraffin heater will create moisture?"
My O Level chemistry is a bit rusty but, Paraffin is a hydrocarbon containg Hydrogen and Carbon atoms. When it burns with oxygen it releases a mixture of Carbon Dioxide (Carbon and Oxygen) and Water (Hydrogen and Oxygen).
The same thing applies for gas heaters/cookers and any other kind of oil based heater.
Just to be a complete anorak I have found the formula for the combustion of paraffin. It means as little to me now as it did 20 years ago !
C36H74 + 109/2 O2 ==> 36 CO2 + 37 H2O
>> Edited by oliverkelly on Wednesday 20th November 12:21
>> Edited by oliverkelly on Wednesday 20th November 12:21
My O Level chemistry is a bit rusty but, Paraffin is a hydrocarbon containg Hydrogen and Carbon atoms. When it burns with oxygen it releases a mixture of Carbon Dioxide (Carbon and Oxygen) and Water (Hydrogen and Oxygen).
The same thing applies for gas heaters/cookers and any other kind of oil based heater.
Just to be a complete anorak I have found the formula for the combustion of paraffin. It means as little to me now as it did 20 years ago !
C36H74 + 109/2 O2 ==> 36 CO2 + 37 H2O
>> Edited by oliverkelly on Wednesday 20th November 12:21
>> Edited by oliverkelly on Wednesday 20th November 12:21
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