Mac with Intel processor - buy or wait?
Discussion
The minor graphical issues that the Intel based iMacs were suffering effected Front Row and DVD playback. These are meant to have been cleared up by last nights release of 10.4.5. The only other issue I know about is the massive wait for a MacBook Pro!
With regards to native software I'd really need to know more about what software you need for work. All apps shipped with the machine are Universal (i.e. Native). Apple's own Pro apps (Final Cut, Motion, Aperture, Logic etc) are Universal now (Logic) or going to be in a month or so. Most small developers (Omni etc) are shipping Universal now. Adobe and MS are not. You will have to wait for the next release of Office and CS3 for native Word/Photoshop etc. In the case of Word/Excel this is not a problem: they are fast enough under Rosetta. In the case of Photoshop/Illustrator etc they are OK for casual use but probably too slow for professional use.
With regards to native software I'd really need to know more about what software you need for work. All apps shipped with the machine are Universal (i.e. Native). Apple's own Pro apps (Final Cut, Motion, Aperture, Logic etc) are Universal now (Logic) or going to be in a month or so. Most small developers (Omni etc) are shipping Universal now. Adobe and MS are not. You will have to wait for the next release of Office and CS3 for native Word/Photoshop etc. In the case of Word/Excel this is not a problem: they are fast enough under Rosetta. In the case of Photoshop/Illustrator etc they are OK for casual use but probably too slow for professional use.
So Apple finally make a PC!
I've never been a Mac man but always thought they produced a nicely styled machine and did decent software - although (after fifteen years!) Microsoft certainly seems to have caught up.
So these new Apples. Is there actually any difference between them and PCs? Could one simply buy a PC - then install the Mac o/s on it?
I've never been a Mac man but always thought they produced a nicely styled machine and did decent software - although (after fifteen years!) Microsoft certainly seems to have caught up.
So these new Apples. Is there actually any difference between them and PCs? Could one simply buy a PC - then install the Mac o/s on it?
800 said:
What is with the massive wait for the MacBook Pro?"?
I don't know if it's related to the wait, but on the Apple US shop (and just looked and showing on the UK shop also), the Macbook's are being shipped with the 1.83 and the 2Ghz (upgradable to the 2.16) Core Duo processors instead of the 1.6 and 1.83 which is nice
>> Edited by Baconbonce on Thursday 16th February 08:42
Don said:
So these new Apples. Is there actually any difference between them and PCs? Could one simply buy a PC - then install the Mac o/s on it?
Someone has relased a hackable version of the Mac OS X that will in theory boot on an intel machine. HOwever with no support, no legal basis for using it (not an official product and it's hacked from Mac Source code) and no guarantee from the guy who made it - it's only really a cuiro for geeks right now.
Think I read about it on theregister.co.uk IIRC...
>> Edited by mr_tony on Thursday 16th February 11:08
Baconbonce said:
What is with the massive wait for the MacBook Pro?"?
I don't know if it's related to the wait, but on the Apple US shop (and just looked and showing on the UK shop also), the Macbook's are being shipped with the 1.83 and the 2Ghz (upgradable to the 2.16) Core Duo processors instead of the 1.6 and 1.83 which is nice
>> Edited by Baconbonce on Thursday 16th February 08:42
Yep. My order made on the 10th (day of announcement) has been upgraded to 2.0Ghz for no additional cost. On the down side it's now shipping 28th Feb instead of the original estimate of the 7th...
Answering several questions:
- Shipping only started this week (with upgraded processors). Word is of huge orders, so expect delays.
- Universal apps are tumbling out. Apple have launched a web page http://guide.apple.com/index.lasso then click on Universal to see whether what you need is available. Most upgrades appear to be free. MS Office is due in March (though this might well be a full upgrade as well). There is no sign of Photoshop appearing.
- Be aware that universal does not support Classic, so you're boned if you are still using some very old apps (like me!)
- Rumours broke yesterday of a major breakthrough in hacking OSX onto generic PCs. However, it's far from complete. And it is suspected that Apple (for several reasons) will make life very difficult for hackers. There is more interest in enabling Apple hardware to dual-boot with Windows.
- Latest rumour is that Intel iBooks are due in April. Surely they must upgrade the 17" and 12" Pro books first?
So, KK,
If you want a laptop, I would actually suggest you wait (if you can). Start your research by all means (read the magazines to see how well the Intel chip really performs; work out which apps you need, whether/when they are released as universal; and whether real life users start to raise problems), but you might see things are much clearer in 4-8 weeks. Particularly significant as you want Adobe CS
If you are interested in a destop, you have a different choice. The Intel iMac is patently faster than its G5 parent. But the 2-core G5 PowerMac is still better than Intel duo core in some speed tests, and the 4-core much more so. If a 4-core is in your sights/budget, you could buy with confidence right now
- Shipping only started this week (with upgraded processors). Word is of huge orders, so expect delays.
- Universal apps are tumbling out. Apple have launched a web page http://guide.apple.com/index.lasso then click on Universal to see whether what you need is available. Most upgrades appear to be free. MS Office is due in March (though this might well be a full upgrade as well). There is no sign of Photoshop appearing.
- Be aware that universal does not support Classic, so you're boned if you are still using some very old apps (like me!)
- Rumours broke yesterday of a major breakthrough in hacking OSX onto generic PCs. However, it's far from complete. And it is suspected that Apple (for several reasons) will make life very difficult for hackers. There is more interest in enabling Apple hardware to dual-boot with Windows.
- Latest rumour is that Intel iBooks are due in April. Surely they must upgrade the 17" and 12" Pro books first?
So, KK,
If you want a laptop, I would actually suggest you wait (if you can). Start your research by all means (read the magazines to see how well the Intel chip really performs; work out which apps you need, whether/when they are released as universal; and whether real life users start to raise problems), but you might see things are much clearer in 4-8 weeks. Particularly significant as you want Adobe CS
If you are interested in a destop, you have a different choice. The Intel iMac is patently faster than its G5 parent. But the 2-core G5 PowerMac is still better than Intel duo core in some speed tests, and the 4-core much more so. If a 4-core is in your sights/budget, you could buy with confidence right now
Definately wait, unless the software you use has been converted, or you only use it lightly.
My major concern with these machines is that in the summer, Apple will announce a 64bit Intel Desktop and lappy. Becuse it's a bit more effort (alot more in some cases) to produce apps for different platforms. G4/5 legacy will be supported and I64 will be, but you could end up with a machine architecture that only existed for a few months, and is poorly supported by devs.
My major concern with these machines is that in the summer, Apple will announce a 64bit Intel Desktop and lappy. Becuse it's a bit more effort (alot more in some cases) to produce apps for different platforms. G4/5 legacy will be supported and I64 will be, but you could end up with a machine architecture that only existed for a few months, and is poorly supported by devs.
My MacBook Pro has just arrived. Packaging and "out of the box" experience up to Apple's normal high standards. I have had a very quick play around and it all seems to work as expected. I can't really judge the speed until I get home and get my user profile and apps copied over. The new power connector is pretty cool.
If anyone has specific questions I'll do my best to answer.
(my spec is 2.0Ghz, 1Gb RAM (another 1Gb on the way) and 120Gb 5400rpm drive)
If anyone has specific questions I'll do my best to answer.
(my spec is 2.0Ghz, 1Gb RAM (another 1Gb on the way) and 120Gb 5400rpm drive)
robbieduncan said:
My MacBook Pro has just arrived. Packaging and "out of the box" experience up to Apple's normal high standards. I have had a very quick play around and it all seems to work as expected. I can't really judge the speed until I get home and get my user profile and apps copied over. The new power connector is pretty cool.
If anyone has specific questions I'll do my best to answer.
(my spec is 2.0Ghz, 1Gb RAM (another 1Gb on the way) and 120Gb 5400rpm drive)
Interested to hear how you are getting on with the Macbook Pro after a few days of use. Need a mini review!
I spent the first evening copying over all my data and almost all my apps from my old PowerBook to the MacBook. It coped as expected with this: i.e. it was basically all disk access so speed difference was negligable. I got a bit of a chance to play with it last night. In general everything works just as you'd expect it to. At no time are you aware of the Intel processer instead of a PPC one. It is very fast though!
I was able to play 1080p content from Apple's website (scaled down to the screen) at more or less 24fps (although both CPU core are worked very hard). DVD encoding to H264 (at full frame size) runs at arround 18fps in Handbrake (Intel beta). iLife apps open very quickly and once running everythin happens more or less instantly. XCode is mile better. Compiles automatically run on both cores when appropriate and are really fast.
Non-native code is obviously a different matter. MS Office apps take noticably longer to start up. Once running they seem to work fine at expected speeds. I have not tried Photoshop yet but I am expecting it to be quite slow until a native version is available.
The machine itself is great. It doesn't look all that much different to my previous PowerBook (1.25Ghz 15" G4). The increased screen resolution from that model is welcome, but to be honest you don't really notice it after a while. I do find that I'm not having to have app windows the size of the whole screen so much now though. The screen is noticably "wider". Takes a little getting used to but it's OK.
Build in iSight and FrontRow do what they are meant to, but if they had been options I probably would not have specced them. The iSight does work with Delicious Libraru so I suppose I'll use it a bit. Battery life seems OK, more or less in line with a PowerBook. Under normal usage with WiFi on I'm getting between 3 and 4 hours. When it's not working hard I'd say it's running cooler than the PowerBook, and the upside is that it's working hard less often.
The MagSafe power cord is cool and actually works (I've managed to pull it out by mistake once so far with my foot, better than the laptop hitting the ground). AirPort reception is at least as good as the PowerBook, maybe a little better. Screen is much brighter (I am running at 50% brightness as opposed to 100% on the old laptop).
Overall I'm very happy, although I'd say you need more RAM in Intel land that PPC. I have a second gig on it's way to sort that though.
I was able to play 1080p content from Apple's website (scaled down to the screen) at more or less 24fps (although both CPU core are worked very hard). DVD encoding to H264 (at full frame size) runs at arround 18fps in Handbrake (Intel beta). iLife apps open very quickly and once running everythin happens more or less instantly. XCode is mile better. Compiles automatically run on both cores when appropriate and are really fast.
Non-native code is obviously a different matter. MS Office apps take noticably longer to start up. Once running they seem to work fine at expected speeds. I have not tried Photoshop yet but I am expecting it to be quite slow until a native version is available.
The machine itself is great. It doesn't look all that much different to my previous PowerBook (1.25Ghz 15" G4). The increased screen resolution from that model is welcome, but to be honest you don't really notice it after a while. I do find that I'm not having to have app windows the size of the whole screen so much now though. The screen is noticably "wider". Takes a little getting used to but it's OK.
Build in iSight and FrontRow do what they are meant to, but if they had been options I probably would not have specced them. The iSight does work with Delicious Libraru so I suppose I'll use it a bit. Battery life seems OK, more or less in line with a PowerBook. Under normal usage with WiFi on I'm getting between 3 and 4 hours. When it's not working hard I'd say it's running cooler than the PowerBook, and the upside is that it's working hard less often.
The MagSafe power cord is cool and actually works (I've managed to pull it out by mistake once so far with my foot, better than the laptop hitting the ground). AirPort reception is at least as good as the PowerBook, maybe a little better. Screen is much brighter (I am running at 50% brightness as opposed to 100% on the old laptop).
Overall I'm very happy, although I'd say you need more RAM in Intel land that PPC. I have a second gig on it's way to sort that though.
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