Comments on brake pads please...
Discussion
Stick a bit of Polyfilla in the cracks and stuff them back in. 
)GreenV8S said:
I'd describe that as a disaster in progress. Have they been severely overheated?
No, although they have done a few track days. The original porsche ones came off the car looking like this as well (I had only had the car for a month or so at that point)..
Are you sure this isn't par for the course?
Steve
Merritt said:
Are you sure this isn't par for the course?
I've seen pads crack due to back plate flex, but the only time I've seen pads craze and fracture like yours is after a severe cooking. But my experience is based on conventional fast road/mild race pads, maybe you're using something more exotic?
Steve,
Have you got the cup cooling ducts to go with your Alcons?? Cos it looks like the pads have got a tad warm...
Staying out too long at somewhere like Bedford???
Having said that, these pads are supposed to be Pagid's Endurance pad - they shoul;d be able to take a fair amount of punishment without this sort of cracking....
Why don't you email the pics to Pagid's tech boys and see what they have to say.
www.braketechnology.com/
Have you got the cup cooling ducts to go with your Alcons?? Cos it looks like the pads have got a tad warm...
Staying out too long at somewhere like Bedford???
Having said that, these pads are supposed to be Pagid's Endurance pad - they shoul;d be able to take a fair amount of punishment without this sort of cracking....
Why don't you email the pics to Pagid's tech boys and see what they have to say.
www.braketechnology.com/
Cheers guys.
Tim, the car has the standard MKII brake ducts (I will check that they are still attached to the car!). After you first set of replies last night I also sent an email to pagid technical wih the photos attached but their email address is Florida so I suspect it will be tomorrow at least before I see an answer. With that in mind, I have sent a copy of the photos to Steve at JZM to see what he thinks.
Peter, the pads are RS29s and should be well up to the job of being abused because as Tim says they are GT endurance pads.
The only thing I know I didn't do correctly was bed them in properly after I bought them (I hadn't found the bedding in instructions on the web site at that point) so if there is a problem here I suspect it has been caused by improper bedding in procedure.
I will see what Steve and Pagid technical say but as I am at Combe on Saturday and the ring / SPA at the end of next month, I think I will buy another set so I can stick them in if necessary...
Cheers
Steve
Tim, the car has the standard MKII brake ducts (I will check that they are still attached to the car!). After you first set of replies last night I also sent an email to pagid technical wih the photos attached but their email address is Florida so I suspect it will be tomorrow at least before I see an answer. With that in mind, I have sent a copy of the photos to Steve at JZM to see what he thinks.
Peter, the pads are RS29s and should be well up to the job of being abused because as Tim says they are GT endurance pads.
The only thing I know I didn't do correctly was bed them in properly after I bought them (I hadn't found the bedding in instructions on the web site at that point) so if there is a problem here I suspect it has been caused by improper bedding in procedure.
I will see what Steve and Pagid technical say but as I am at Combe on Saturday and the ring / SPA at the end of next month, I think I will buy another set so I can stick them in if necessary...
Cheers
Steve
OOOOH Steve......
Let me guess what they will say.....
"If pads do not get bedded properly and / or used too hard right out of the box will likely lead to pad glazing. Pad glazing is a condition where the resins in the pad crystallize on both the pad friction surface and the brake disc surface, resulting in poor stopping performance, brake judder and vibrations.
Also rapidly escaping volatile elements and moisture from the resin would seek an immediate escape route out of the friction compound, creating small fissures that would lead shortly to cracking and chunking."
You are a very very naughty boy.
Let me guess what they will say.....
"If pads do not get bedded properly and / or used too hard right out of the box will likely lead to pad glazing. Pad glazing is a condition where the resins in the pad crystallize on both the pad friction surface and the brake disc surface, resulting in poor stopping performance, brake judder and vibrations.
Also rapidly escaping volatile elements and moisture from the resin would seek an immediate escape route out of the friction compound, creating small fissures that would lead shortly to cracking and chunking."
You are a very very naughty boy.
gfreeman said:
OOOOH Steve......
Let me guess what they will say.....
"If pads do not get bedded properly and / or used too hard right out of the box will likely lead to pad glazing. Pad glazing is a condition where the resins in the pad crystallize on both the pad friction surface and the brake disc surface, resulting in poor stopping performance, brake judder and vibrations.
Also rapidly escaping volatile elements and moisture from the resin would seek an immediate escape route out of the friction compound, creating small fissures that would lead shortly to cracking and chunking."
You are a very very naughty boy.
Sounds like you have that rolling off your tongue to perfection
Steve
Reply from Pagid Technical - Thought you would all like to know 
I had also been told the same thing from Steve at JZM.
Hi Steve,
First of all thank you very much for using Pagid racing brake pads.
There is no reason to be concerned; the pad material will not delaminate completely although for track day use your heat cracks are slightly above normal. We see those cracks however on a regular basis after races.
PAGID uses a unique and patented system to ensure the friction material does not delaminate from the steel backing plate.
The friction material is attached to the backing plate in two ways, adhesive bonding and mechanical retention.
The mechanical retention (patented) is accomplished by inserting ‘brass torpedoes’ (studs) -which are welded onto the steel backing plate –
deep into the friction material. The ‘brass torpedoes’ do not harm the brake disc.
If you need any more information please let me know.
Sooo - im obviously a racing driver
Steve
>> Edited by Merritt on Tuesday 25th April 07:19
I had also been told the same thing from Steve at JZM.
Hi Steve,
First of all thank you very much for using Pagid racing brake pads.
There is no reason to be concerned; the pad material will not delaminate completely although for track day use your heat cracks are slightly above normal. We see those cracks however on a regular basis after races.
PAGID uses a unique and patented system to ensure the friction material does not delaminate from the steel backing plate.
The friction material is attached to the backing plate in two ways, adhesive bonding and mechanical retention.
The mechanical retention (patented) is accomplished by inserting ‘brass torpedoes’ (studs) -which are welded onto the steel backing plate –
deep into the friction material. The ‘brass torpedoes’ do not harm the brake disc.
If you need any more information please let me know.
Sooo - im obviously a racing driver
Steve
>> Edited by Merritt on Tuesday 25th April 07:19
Merritt said:
Reply from Pagid Technical - Thought you would all like to know
I had also been told the same thing from Steve at JZM.
Hi Steve,
First of all thank you very much for using Pagid racing brake pads.
There is no reason to be concerned; the pad material will not delaminate completely although for track day use your heat cracks are slightly above normal. We see those cracks however on a regular basis after races.
PAGID uses a unique and patented system to ensure the friction material does not delaminate from the steel backing plate.
The friction material is attached to the backing plate in two ways, adhesive bonding and mechanical retention.
The mechanical retention (patented) is accomplished by inserting ‘brass torpedoes’ (studs) -which are welded onto the steel backing plate –
deep into the friction material. The ‘brass torpedoes’ do not harm the brake disc.
If you need any more information please let me know.
Sooo - im obviously a racing driver
Steve
>> Edited by Merritt on Tuesday 25th April 07:19
How many days have you done on those pads Steve ??
G.
>> Edited by glenn mcmenamin on Tuesday 25th April 11:12
glenn mcmenamin said:
How many days have you done on those pads Steve ??
G.
>> Edited by glenn mcmenamin on Tuesday 25th April 11:12
Glenn - Just two Bedford evenings last year and one full day at Bedford earlier this month plus around 2k road miles.
Dan - I know but it doesn't stop me dreaming
Steve
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