incident at vw meet on sunday
Discussion
Gary,
You've got my details in your mailbox!
Other people in the area were RZD (Les) in front with the very dark blue Cerb, as well as Trackdemon (Steve) and Missus behind in Chimaera and Mini Cooper S.
Worth contacting them via their profiles.
Woman + MPV = Fault
Not a sexist observation I hasten to add, but those things are not driven by people with an interest in what happens on the tarmac around then (IMO).
Hope all goes well Gary, my statement will hopefully sort you out...
You've got my details in your mailbox!
Other people in the area were RZD (Les) in front with the very dark blue Cerb, as well as Trackdemon (Steve) and Missus behind in Chimaera and Mini Cooper S.
Worth contacting them via their profiles.
Woman + MPV = Fault
Not a sexist observation I hasten to add, but those things are not driven by people with an interest in what happens on the tarmac around then (IMO).
Hope all goes well Gary, my statement will hopefully sort you out...
Gary, I was behind tripps in my Tamora.
As I told you Sunday I saw your car jump after the impact but didn't really see it happen.
Certainly the MPVs fault as you approached the roundabout in the right hand lane and then left the roundabout (effectively going straight on) in the right lane. As Mrs MPV wanted to turn right she was obviously in the wrong lane and not looking around herself or indicating!
Cheers.... Andrew
As I told you Sunday I saw your car jump after the impact but didn't really see it happen.
Certainly the MPVs fault as you approached the roundabout in the right hand lane and then left the roundabout (effectively going straight on) in the right lane. As Mrs MPV wanted to turn right she was obviously in the wrong lane and not looking around herself or indicating!
Cheers.... Andrew
alt said: Gary, I was behind tripps in my Tamora.
As I told you Sunday I saw your car jump after the impact but didn't really see it happen.
Certainly the MPVs fault as you approached the roundabout in the right hand lane and then left the roundabout (effectively going straight on) in the right lane. As Mrs MPV wanted to turn right she was obviously in the wrong lane and not looking around herself or indicating!
Cheers.... Andrew
Exactly the same thing happened to me a couple of years back except the lady in question decided at the last minute to double back round the roundabout cause she'd missed her turning - didn't think to check for other cars first. The bloody woman even admitted she was in the wrong but it still took over 6 months of hassling insurance companies to get it sorted. Difference, I didn't have any witnesses... make sure you get them.
Graham
Presumably, with the damage on your Cerb being the mid to rear nearside, and her damage being front and the offside front wing (I presume) it should be obvious to any investigator where fault lies here, so the opposing insurance companies letter is a ruse by them to get the claim to a 50/50.
Since when it happened we were both on the roundabout not indicating as we were going straight on, she had no right to be where she was anyway, as we had right of way, and she should have waited until the PH convoy passed! Or maybe she's French and just assumed we have the same rule about cars going onto the roundabout having right of way...
But then again who knows with insurance companies...
Since when it happened we were both on the roundabout not indicating as we were going straight on, she had no right to be where she was anyway, as we had right of way, and she should have waited until the PH convoy passed! Or maybe she's French and just assumed we have the same rule about cars going onto the roundabout having right of way...
But then again who knows with insurance companies...
Same thing happened to me a few years ago. there were no witnesses. But I went to the police.. They very kindly asked me and the lady in question to complete a summary of what happened. so when She said 'I approached in the right hand lane and wanted to turn left but I turned into a car on my left who was going straight on' suddenlty she was unabe to continue with 'it was your fault'. she couldnt lie to the police. Or found it difficult to do so.
tripps said: Since when it happened we were both on the roundabout not indicating as we were going straight on
Not true. Even if you're going straight in you should still indicate left as soon as you've passed the first (left) exit.
Anyway, not really relevant here as Mrs MPV was oblivious to the whole Cerbera and not just its indicators!
tripps said: Presumably, with the damage on your Cerb being the mid to rear nearside, and her damage being front and the offside front wing (I presume) it should be obvious to any investigator where fault lies here, so the opposing insurance companies letter is a ruse by them to get the claim to a 50/50.
Since when it happened we were both on the roundabout not indicating as we were going straight on, she had no right to be where she was anyway, as we had right of way, and she should have waited until the PH convoy passed! Or maybe she's French and just assumed we have the same rule about cars going onto the roundabout having right of way...
But then again who knows with insurance companies...
I am having a similar "discussion" with my insurers, who are having a similar discussion with "their" insurers over what appears to be a similar incident, albeit on a larger roundabout. I don't want to say too much as it's still sub-judice (or whatever) but bear in mid that:
- common sense does not necessarily apply in handling of these incidents;
- the rules of the road are not necessarily of any importance whatsoever, as far as they are concerned;
- all insurance companies must make a profit and so would rather not pay out of they don't have to;
- no independent witnesses? Then either party can say what they like, can't they?
I could go on, but I don't want to get too specific.
Wing mirrors? Mrs Numpty doesn't need them, twice this week I've been behind the same MPV thing on the drive into the office, DVD screen hanging from the roof to keep little Tarquin ammuzed on the way to school (still can't figure out what their watching though) and twice she has had both wing mirrors in the 'folded in' position 
alt said: Certainly the MPVs fault as you approached the roundabout in the right hand lane and then left the roundabout (effectively going straight on) in the right lane. As Mrs MPV wanted to turn right she was obviously in the wrong lane and not looking around herself or indicating!
Cheers.... Andrew
At the risk of being pedantic - If Mrs MPV was turning right, and was in the left hand lane, she is undoubtedly in the wrong. But if Gary was in the right hand lane, and was going straight on, he was not necessarily in the right. See www.highwaycode.gov.uk/17.shtml#160
Although it does not specifically say so, you're sposed to keep in left-hand lane when going straight over roundabout - see the picture
Hope it goes well for you
Skip said:At the risk of being pedantic ... it does not specifically say so, you're sposed to keep in left-hand lane when going straight over roundabout - see the picture
At the risk of being even more pedantic, it actually states "select the appropriate lane". As he was intending to take the 2nd exit and proceed in the outside lane, it would be more 'appropriate' to approach in the RH lane, IMO. As it also states "when taking the last exit or going full circle ... approach in the right hand lane". As she was not taking the 1st or 2nd exits and it is a 4-way roundabout, she has to be in the wrong. Case closed.
{edited to cut the crap}
>> Edited by pdv6 on Friday 7th February 14:21
Similar thing happened to me in 1999, in rh lane, lady in fiesta in lh lane. Big roundabout. I'm going straight on as arrows on road at time say I can. She decides to go right round roundabout (later said "I thought I had come to the next roundabout up the road not this one". Accepts liability there and then but later denies it (after talking to hubby?). Insurance finally (after 10 months of hastling through legal cover thing) say they will go 50/50. No chance, it'll cost me 3 years NCB, £500excess, pride. Tell them to send all files as I'm going to go to court over it. They capitulate and pay up in full.
Council have since changed the arrows on the road.
Sorry, you claim might take some time after the insurance companies get their way. Just pleased it wasn't in the Tivvy, there would have been plastic everywhere.
Council have since changed the arrows on the road.
Sorry, you claim might take some time after the insurance companies get their way. Just pleased it wasn't in the Tivvy, there would have been plastic everywhere.
pdv6 said
Agree it might be 'appropriate' - depends on road markings and commonsense. But if you're in the left-hand lane going straight over a roundabout, you are safe from the likes of Mrs MPV. I've had too many narrow escapes from her sort, so very much tend to stay in left-hand lane - as advised by my driving instructor friend.
Trust me, the last thing you do when some numpty drive into the Cerbera in front of you is indicate that you're leaving at the next exit!
alt said:Not true. Even if you're going straight in you should still indicate left as soon as you've passed the first (left) exit.
I'm one to bemoan the lack of indication from most people myself, such as the Rover 200 that pulled in front of my while on convoy to VW, had a Ferrari in front at the time I think and various TVRs behind, doing something a little below three digits, and low and behold the shopping trolley pulls in with no indication, forcing me to drop my speed by around 20-25 miles per hour
Thankfully those behind were good drivers and I wasn't be tail-gated, otherwise...Hi Gary, as Rob pointed out I did see a portion of the accident (but not actually the contact itself). I don't see why everyone seems to be saying we shouldn't have been in the right hand lane; we were actually
in the middle lane (it is nigh impossible to get to the left lane approaching from the M25 turnoff). If I remember correctly the road is actually marked up to define the 2nd lane (which we were in) as a straight on.
Either way, I saw numptie MPV driver approach in left lane (which may even be marked left turn?, which she didn't take) and she did not take the turning indicated by her choice of lane, leading to a collision; I don't think she was indicating, can't remember. I'll have a word with the missus, see if she saw anything...
in the middle lane (it is nigh impossible to get to the left lane approaching from the M25 turnoff). If I remember correctly the road is actually marked up to define the 2nd lane (which we were in) as a straight on.
Either way, I saw numptie MPV driver approach in left lane (which may even be marked left turn?, which she didn't take) and she did not take the turning indicated by her choice of lane, leading to a collision; I don't think she was indicating, can't remember. I'll have a word with the missus, see if she saw anything...
All this left and right hand lane thing has got me well and truely confused 
. Still, with reference to the indicate or not indicate - this is actually a BIG loophole in the highway code. It doesnt say that you should or shouldnt if you are going straight at a roundabout - it merely states about clear indication of your direction.....
Means that the Police and Insurance companies hate claims / incidents with roundabouts - the unclear guidelines means that proving blame can be hard. However, that said, it certainly sounds like Mrs Moron in the MPV did not understand or apprechiate the intracies of a roundabout - especially if there is a car on it....
Incidentaly - the police opinion with incidents where the direction of travel of the car in question is unclear (roundabout, junction etc), the blame lies with the person that hits the other car (confused, you will be) - you are supposed to proceed with caution in that case and assume the worst. You cannot simply enter a roundabout "because the other car was indicating" or turn into a road for a similar reason....
Cheers,
Paul
. Still, with reference to the indicate or not indicate - this is actually a BIG loophole in the highway code. It doesnt say that you should or shouldnt if you are going straight at a roundabout - it merely states about clear indication of your direction..... Means that the Police and Insurance companies hate claims / incidents with roundabouts - the unclear guidelines means that proving blame can be hard. However, that said, it certainly sounds like Mrs Moron in the MPV did not understand or apprechiate the intracies of a roundabout - especially if there is a car on it....
Incidentaly - the police opinion with incidents where the direction of travel of the car in question is unclear (roundabout, junction etc), the blame lies with the person that hits the other car (confused, you will be) - you are supposed to proceed with caution in that case and assume the worst. You cannot simply enter a roundabout "because the other car was indicating" or turn into a road for a similar reason....
Cheers,
Paul
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