Hillclimb car

[nick0137]

Ok, I'm new here, so hello all.

Now, down to business. I'm looking into getting a car for hillclimbs to replace the 1967 Lotus Elan S4 that I (and my father) presently have. It's a great little car for the job (not much weight, plenty of power and loads of grip and handling ability). But, it's a noisy, smelly, teeth-rattling beast on the road so it gets trailered around everywhere. Anyway, for a whole load of reasons the trailer isn't going to be an option any longer.

My father has a 996 C2 tiptronic and is far from impressed by it. So, here's the idea. Swap his Porsche and the Lotus for a hillclimb Porsche - something that is light and powerful but not (too) harsh on the road. OK. But what?

I've had a 996 C4S in the past (which I loved but which had to go to pay the builders) so I'm thinking some variation on the 996. Anything RS will be too harsh I fear, but what about a GT3? Is that seriously going to fit the bill of lightweight, power but on-road good manners? Come, be honest.... Oh, and another thing. Don't really want to spend more than £50k.

[domster]

Hi Nick,

Yes, GT3 will work a treat. But you really should consider a 993RS as well. Very roadable. The 964RS will be more of a hillclimb weapon, but the more hillclimb you go, the less roadable it gets!

The 964RS is the lightest of all of them, making it closer to Chapman's philosophy. He would have liked the features like smaller screen wash reservoir and deletion of rear screen demist wiring!

If I had the budget I'd get the 3.8 wide body cup car at www.gtclassics.co.uk - Paul will look after you if you mention pistonheads

Rgds and welcome to the board,
Dom

Edited by domster on Tuesday 25th July 16:10

[nick0137]

Thanks for that. Yes, I'd seen the goodies on offer at the GT site. I've always fancied an RS for that "pure driving experience" that everyone talks about - I imagine it's probably quite similar to the immediacy of "driver thinks - driver acts - car reacts" that you get from a Lotus. And Malton Porsche also seems to have a nicely sorted GT3. Decisions, decisions.....

[domster]

I think an Exige would also be a good option, not to mention a Caterham. Otherwise a 964RS Clubsport would probably be about as close as a Porsche gets to a big seven in feel (excluding the rare 70s 2.7RSs which are meant to be even more intimate with the road or something!).

[nick0137]

The Exige was our first idea. But, boy are they noisy on the road - all the noise seems to rebound around the cockpit. A Caterham or a Locostfield will be a bit too primitive for my father on the road. Hence the idea for a slightly more civilised, but still relatively good on the power:weight ratio, Porsche. I'm still thinking a GT3 might be the best option. I can see my father complaining about an RS...

[domster]

OK, then take a look at a 993RS. Much more comfortable and roadable, yet still highly able on track. See the recent 993RS vs 996GT3 thread. The stripped interior of the clubsport spec RSs make the Exige seem civilised

[nick0137]

Thanks for the help. I'll have a look at that thread.

Anyone else got something to chip in?

[Geneve]

If you are going to compete in hill climb you need to decide what 'class' you want to be in, as this will determine what you will be competing against.

[ninemeister]

For the Porsche Club Championship the classes are split by the HP of the car, so in class order the following are the main contenders this year (appologies if I have left anyone out):

Class 1 250bhp+
993RSCS mit 400bhp, 1160kg *
964Cup 300bhp 1120kg
911 G50 3.3 Supercharged 365bhp 1125kg
911 915 3.2 270bhp 960kg
996GT3RS
996 3.4 "Cup spec"

Class 2 206-250bhp
911 G50 Supersport 3.2 250bhp 1050kg
911 915 "3.0RS" 3.2 250bhp 1000kg
911 3.0 Carrera mit 3.2 250bhp 980kg *
911 2.7RS replica 3.2 240bhp 1000kg
986 2.7 "racer"

Class 3 161-205bhp
924 2.0 supercharged 205bhp 1020kg *
916 replica 2.7 200bhp 870kg
911 2.7S
911E RS replica

Class 4 -160bhp
924S 980kg *
924 2.0 950kg
911T 930kg
914 900kg

* current class leaders after 7 rounds.


What you can see from this is that weight has a far greater part to play in hillclimbing than chassis refinement, and from the list above the one car most capable of consistently winning on the hills is the 916 replica....

So making the assumption that you want a relatively modern 911 and hence due to power output you would be looking at a Class 1 car with over 250bhp. My recommendations based on current performance is that you would need something like the following to compete at the top level:

993RSCS 400bhp & 1150kg
964RSCS 350bhp & 1100kg
996GT3RS 440bhp & 1200kg

However, if you look at a pre-89 911 as a basis, the best plan would be to build a lightweight 2.7RS or 3.0RS replica with either 915 or G50 gearbox and fit a 3.6 engine on Motec.

911 2.7RS 325bhp & 950kg

That should do it.......

[bund]

ninemeister said:

For the Porsche Club Championship the classes are split by the HP of the car, so in class order the following are the main contenders this year (appologies if I have left anyone out):

Class 1 250bhp+
993RSCS mit 400bhp, 1160kg *
964Cup 300bhp 1120kg
911 G50 3.3 Supercharged 365bhp 1125kg
911 915 3.2 270bhp 960kg
996GT3RS
996 3.4 "Cup spec"

Class 2 206-250bhp
911 G50 Supersport 3.2 250bhp 1050kg
911 915 "3.0RS" 3.2 250bhp 1000kg
911 3.0 Carrera mit 3.2 250bhp 980kg *
911 2.7RS replica 3.2 240bhp 1000kg
986 2.7 "racer"

Class 3 161-205bhp
924 2.0 supercharged 205bhp 1020kg *
916 replica 2.7 200bhp 870kg
911 2.7S
911E RS replica

Class 4 -160bhp
924S 980kg *
924 2.0 950kg
911T 930kg
914 900kg

* current class leaders after 7 rounds.


What you can see from this is that weight has a far greater part to play in hillclimbing than chassis refinement, and from the list above the one car most capable of consistently winning on the hills is the 916 replica....

So making the assumption that you want a relatively modern 911 and hence due to power output you would be looking at a Class 1 car with over 250bhp. My recommendations based on current performance is that you would need something like the following to compete at the top level:

993RSCS 400bhp & 1150kg
964RSCS 350bhp & 1100kg
996GT3RS 440bhp & 1200kg

However, if you look at a pre-89 911 as a basis, the best plan would be to build a lightweight 2.7RS or 3.0RS replica with either 915 or G50 gearbox and fit a 3.6 engine on Motec.

911 2.7RS 325bhp & 950kg

That should do it.......

and that was the best " chip in " iv seen for a while. Very knowledgeable!!!!

[nick0137]

I agree - a very helpful "chip". Thanks. I hope I don't offend anyone's competitive urges but for me hillclimbing is about beating myself or at least being consistent - so I was happy last time at Shelsley (best time 37.90) to get all 4 runs in the low 38s. Maybe that's the result of having run for 11 or so years in a "classic" class of Sportscars 1960 to 1970: you can be up against all sorts of different machinery (a Lotus 7 with over 35 years of development anyone?), some of which you simply have no chance of beating with a 135hp Lotus Elan. So, the idea is to get a fun, roadable Porsche and see what happens.

[ninemeister]

nick0137 said:

I agree - a very helpful "chip". Thanks.

You're welcome.

nick0137 said:

I hope I don't offend anyone's competitive urges but for me hillclimbing is about beating myself or at least being consistent - so I was happy last time at Shelsley (best time 37.90) to get all 4 runs in the low 38s. Maybe that's the result of having run for 11 or so years in a "classic" class of Sportscars 1960 to 1970: you can be up against all sorts of different machinery (a Lotus 7 with over 35 years of development anyone?), some of which you simply have no chance of beating with a 135hp Lotus Elan. So, the idea is to get a fun, roadable Porsche and see what happens.

For comprison last years Shelsley dry times for some of the above (most on List 1B tyres) were:

CB 993RS = 33.88 (my first visit to Shelsley)
AN 911 Supercharged = 33.42
JW 911 lwt = 32.83 slick
DT 911 SSport 3.2 = 34.70
SB 986 2.7 = 35.90
IM 916 = 35.28
GR 924S = 37.76