How tough is a GT3?
Discussion
All,
I currently run 2 cars, a cabriolet for weekend trips and an E36 M3 for trackday use.
Trouble is I have done approx 20 track days in the M3 and am starting to get some pretty hefty repair bills due to pushing it quite hard. After throwing it round the Nurburgring last weekend the suspension subframe has snapped. I am now at the stage of stripping out the M3 and uprating suspension, brakes etc or buying a MkI GT3. However I would be interested to know is the GT3 going to stand up to being thrown around, say into the carousel at the ring repeatedly or am I going to be up for more (higher) costs?
Bit of an open question but all comments/advice would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks,
Brendon
I currently run 2 cars, a cabriolet for weekend trips and an E36 M3 for trackday use.
Trouble is I have done approx 20 track days in the M3 and am starting to get some pretty hefty repair bills due to pushing it quite hard. After throwing it round the Nurburgring last weekend the suspension subframe has snapped. I am now at the stage of stripping out the M3 and uprating suspension, brakes etc or buying a MkI GT3. However I would be interested to know is the GT3 going to stand up to being thrown around, say into the carousel at the ring repeatedly or am I going to be up for more (higher) costs?
Bit of an open question but all comments/advice would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks,
Brendon
It's a road car... if you're going to drive like a racer into the Karussel (which is pretty damn hard on anything's suspension) then you're going to get big maintenance bills...
I'd guess that the GT3 will be even more expensive if you knacker stuff like suspension. I'd be tempted to turn the Bimmer into a proper racecar rather than smash a GT3 into the ground.
I'd guess that the GT3 will be even more expensive if you knacker stuff like suspension. I'd be tempted to turn the Bimmer into a proper racecar rather than smash a GT3 into the ground.
flemke said:
I have put 250+ laps of the Nordschleife on each of two GT3s.
Apart from brakes and tyres, nothing has needed fixing or replacing on neither car.
Apart from brakes and tyres, nothing has needed fixing or replacing on neither car.
I've seen a couple of videos of you driving round the 'ring - I would say you're a very smooth and mechanically sympathetic driver, would you disagree? I may have misinterpreted the OP but it sounds like he is rather hard on his car and wants to know how well it stands up to heavy abuse?
cyberface said:
flemke said:
I have put 250+ laps of the Nordschleife on each of two GT3s.
Apart from brakes and tyres, nothing has needed fixing or replacing on neither car.
Apart from brakes and tyres, nothing has needed fixing or replacing on neither car.
I've seen a couple of videos of you driving round the 'ring - I would say you're a very smooth and mechanically sympathetic driver, would you disagree? I may have misinterpreted the OP but it sounds like he is rather hard on his car and wants to know how well it stands up to heavy abuse?
) I try to be smooth, thanks, but I couldn't say how I compare with others.
On the other hand, I would not use the term "throw the car round the Nurburgring". That technique only works in one bend out of every hundred, maybe, and in the other ninety-nine it slows you down, in addition to its being worse for the car.
As for the Karussel specifically, I don't know how hard you can "throw the car" into it. That is, even if you go in as smoothly as possible, it's still pretty rough, and if you push much beyond that you will understeer out the top anyhow.
I guess I'm saying that most people will take that bend in a similar way.
I would agree that one can be considerably more or less abusive to the car in the mini-Karussel, depending on technique.
So if the question is, How much abuse can a GT3 withstand?, I couldn't say. They aren't meant for the WRC.
If one is driven on circuits hard but properly, however, it will go a long way without letting you down.
I haven't racked up anything like the track time that Flemke has but in my limited experience GT3's are strong and durable.
It's very evident when you looker deeper into the standard specification of the car...seam welded bodyshell, oil coolers, GT1 derived dry sumped engine with lightweight internals and a large oil capacity, steel synchro rings in the gearbox, metal bushes etc...
Porsche have been evolving the design with continuous racing input for decades. A big part of the appeal of the car for me.
It's very evident when you looker deeper into the standard specification of the car...seam welded bodyshell, oil coolers, GT1 derived dry sumped engine with lightweight internals and a large oil capacity, steel synchro rings in the gearbox, metal bushes etc...
Porsche have been evolving the design with continuous racing input for decades. A big part of the appeal of the car for me.
FWIW, my GT3 has been tracked approx twice a month for the last two years in temperatures often around 40C. It is also used as a daily driver throughout the year.
No reliability issues to speak of as yet, although because of the hot and dusty climate I do an oil change every 5000km, and full service every 10000 including racing brake fluid.
I estimate it has done at least 80 standing starts for sprint and autocross races on the same clutch in the last two years, which is pretty impressive. In fact I am almost looking forward to a clutch failure so I can get a lightweight flywheel done at the same time.
As an interesting comparison (and at the risk of upsetting our Ferrari friends), a chap who tracks a Challenge Stradale has to pull over every ten minutes to let the engine cool a bit. The GT3 keeps running all day...
No reliability issues to speak of as yet, although because of the hot and dusty climate I do an oil change every 5000km, and full service every 10000 including racing brake fluid.
I estimate it has done at least 80 standing starts for sprint and autocross races on the same clutch in the last two years, which is pretty impressive. In fact I am almost looking forward to a clutch failure so I can get a lightweight flywheel done at the same time.
As an interesting comparison (and at the risk of upsetting our Ferrari friends), a chap who tracks a Challenge Stradale has to pull over every ten minutes to let the engine cool a bit. The GT3 keeps running all day...
Chaps,
I definitely still have a lot to learn on track, including the Nring (and the spelling of it’s corners!). However since falling in love with the ring in the weekend it appears a GT3 and a smoother driving technique is the way to go. Many thanks for all tips.
However I believe Alex mentioned a Manthey car above. Are these some type of specially prepared cars?
Many thanks,
Brendon
I definitely still have a lot to learn on track, including the Nring (and the spelling of it’s corners!). However since falling in love with the ring in the weekend it appears a GT3 and a smoother driving technique is the way to go. Many thanks for all tips.
However I believe Alex mentioned a Manthey car above. Are these some type of specially prepared cars?
Many thanks,
Brendon
domster said:
Manthey Racing in Germany are based at the N'ring and tune GT3s; mainly power and handling mods. Next time you're at the ring, why not make an appointment and pop in to see them? I'm sure Olaf would get the kettle on.
But you can also have the work carried out closer to home by JZ Machtech who are Manthey agents. Oh, and good choice.
If you haven't found a car already, you're welcome for a ride out in mine on MegaHoon just to finally make your mind up .... 
Thought I had heard that the lsd was a *wear* item, i.e. with a lot track time, they need replacing (10k miles?). Is this right?
Also, how do costs of brakes and tryes compare? i.e. if a set of tyres is £1000 and a set of brakes £500 (I dont know). this will add up if you do a lot of track work.
Whilst I have no doubt that a GT3 wont break in 1/2 you need to work out the running costs of track time.
[Note: I dont know the details, never been lucky enough to run a GT3 let alone on track]
Also, how do costs of brakes and tryes compare? i.e. if a set of tyres is £1000 and a set of brakes £500 (I dont know). this will add up if you do a lot of track work.
Whilst I have no doubt that a GT3 wont break in 1/2 you need to work out the running costs of track time.
[Note: I dont know the details, never been lucky enough to run a GT3 let alone on track]
h_____ said:
Thought I had heard that the lsd was a *wear* item, i.e. with a lot track time, they need replacing (10k miles?). Is this right?
Also, how do costs of brakes and tryes compare? i.e. if a set of tyres is £1000 and a set of brakes £500 (I dont know). this will add up if you do a lot of track work.
Whilst I have no doubt that a GT3 wont break in 1/2 you need to work out the running costs of track time.
[Note: I dont know the details, never been lucky enough to run a GT3 let alone on track]
Also, how do costs of brakes and tryes compare? i.e. if a set of tyres is £1000 and a set of brakes £500 (I dont know). this will add up if you do a lot of track work.
Whilst I have no doubt that a GT3 wont break in 1/2 you need to work out the running costs of track time.
[Note: I dont know the details, never been lucky enough to run a GT3 let alone on track]
LSD is a bit shite, but will last much longer once uprated.
Other things you mention are consumables which isn't the same as random parts of the car failing because you are actually using it. At least with consumables they have predictable wear rates and you don't suddenly get a 5k bill you aren't expecting.
DanH said:
[quote=h_____]Thought I had heard that the lsd was a *wear* item, i.e. with a lot track time, they need replacing (10k miles?). Is this right?
At least with consumables they have predictable wear rates and you don't suddenly get a 5k bill you aren't expecting.
At least with consumables they have predictable wear rates and you don't suddenly get a 5k bill you aren't expecting.
But don't go kidding yourself either, the consumables on a GT3 do not come cheap. Tyres at £1k a set - 5 track days, front pads at £300 plus per set and front brake discs( 6 pot) at c £1000 for a pair with the OPC one's giving up the ghost about every 6 track days. OK I would admit that so the Alcons are a much more cost-effective and better solution.
Nevertheless, for that glorious engine sound, it was worth selling the wife and kids for.
jeremyc said:
But you can also have the work carried out closer to home by JZ Machtech who are Manthey agents.
Oh, and good choice. If you haven't found a car already, you're welcome for a ride out in mine on MegaHoon just to finally make your mind up ....
Oh, and good choice.
If you haven't found a car already, you're welcome for a ride out in mine on MegaHoon just to finally make your mind up .... Jeremy, Many thanks, I believe I will take you up on that kind offer.
flemke said:
I have put 250+ laps of the Nordschleife on each of two GT3s.
Apart from brakes and tyres, nothing has needed fixing or replacing on either car.
Apart from brakes and tyres, nothing has needed fixing or replacing on either car.
Edited by flemke on Tuesday 25th July 21:22
Flemke, stop making me jealous you git!!
Edited to say that I am stuck driving a desk all week. Argh.........
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