M5 closed all day after collision
Discussion
There was a collision this morning between jnct 14 and 13, M5 Northbound. Police closed the road all day and created absolute chaos. One man was killed in the collision. I understand that measurements and details have to be recorded at the scene, but how can it take all day?
I was in the tailback this moring taking 2 1/2 hours to cover 5 miles. Drivers were getting out for a walk, some were having a nap. On my way home this afternoon the tailback was still there and they hadn't yet re-opened the road! I don't understand how this can be allowed to happen.
Apparently the collision was caused by a driver clipping a truck and losing control. I'm sure the over turned car could have been cleared within an hour, so why do they drag it out all day?
I have every sympathy for the relatives of the deceased, and I understand there's only one chance to take measurements, photographs etc of the scene. It must be a very difficult job to clear up the mess too. But how can this possibly take all day, or even be allowed to take all day??
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/gl
I was in the tailback this moring taking 2 1/2 hours to cover 5 miles. Drivers were getting out for a walk, some were having a nap. On my way home this afternoon the tailback was still there and they hadn't yet re-opened the road! I don't understand how this can be allowed to happen.
Apparently the collision was caused by a driver clipping a truck and losing control. I'm sure the over turned car could have been cleared within an hour, so why do they drag it out all day?
I have every sympathy for the relatives of the deceased, and I understand there's only one chance to take measurements, photographs etc of the scene. It must be a very difficult job to clear up the mess too. But how can this possibly take all day, or even be allowed to take all day??
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/gl
The police have an obligation to open the road but they also have a legal obligation to fully investigate the incident. There area whole load of factors that impact upon the time taken. These range from number of vehicles involved, ammount of debris, type of vehicles such as tankers or dangerous loads to the demage to the road surface. If the area is no one hundred percent and the road gets opened any accidents would be the liability of the police etc. The police have no desire to shut a road longer than necessary.
You not seen the pics, the Shogun was upside down in the middle lane, and I've spoken to some one from the police and you really wouldn't have wanted to see the bloke that was driving, sounded horrific.
It shut about 10;30 ( or there abouts, our office is just off Junction 13) and was re-opened before the evening rush hour, I thought that was dam good for a scene of death.
It shut about 10;30 ( or there abouts, our office is just off Junction 13) and was re-opened before the evening rush hour, I thought that was dam good for a scene of death.
We have safe motorways in this country for a good reason - because the police investigate these accidents, and lessons are learnt.
Thats why you see things like the new design of armco, where the start of the armco is a solid barrier at a right angle to the road surface, rather than the old design where it comes from the ground diagonally.
Thats why you see things like the new design of armco, where the start of the armco is a solid barrier at a right angle to the road surface, rather than the old design where it comes from the ground diagonally.
Parrot of Doom said:
We have safe motorways in this country for a good reason - because the police investigate these accidents, and lessons are learnt.
Thats why you see things like the new design of armco, where the start of the armco is a solid barrier at a right angle to the road surface, rather than the old design where it comes from the ground diagonally.
Thats why you see things like the new design of armco, where the start of the armco is a solid barrier at a right angle to the road surface, rather than the old design where it comes from the ground diagonally.
That has always struck me as appearing more dangerous than the old sloping approach system. I assume it's not as it is now the method of choice but I still can't see how a dead stop is safer.
BB
BigBob said:
Parrot of Doom said:
We have safe motorways in this country for a good reason - because the police investigate these accidents, and lessons are learnt.
Thats why you see things like the new design of armco, where the start of the armco is a solid barrier at a right angle to the road surface, rather than the old design where it comes from the ground diagonally.
Thats why you see things like the new design of armco, where the start of the armco is a solid barrier at a right angle to the road surface, rather than the old design where it comes from the ground diagonally.
That has always struck me as appearing more dangerous than the old sloping approach system. I assume it's not as it is now the method of choice but I still can't see how a dead stop is safer.
BB
Is it to prevent roll overs? I think the Armco has a 'crumple zone' sort of thing now to absorb the energy of the impact. I noticed them last year when I was doing a lot of driving.
Parrot of Doom said:
We have safe motorways in this country for a good reason - because the police investigate these accidents, and lessons are learnt.
Thats why you see things like the new design of armco, where the start of the armco is a solid barrier at a right angle to the road surface, rather than the old design where it comes from the ground diagonally.
Thats why you see things like the new design of armco, where the start of the armco is a solid barrier at a right angle to the road surface, rather than the old design where it comes from the ground diagonally.
The ones with the crunply bit and the yellow/black wasp stripes on the end.
Did once see a transit van on the M6 that had ridden up the old style sloping start to a section of crash barrier, one wheel on wither side. Together with a very sheepish looking driver standing along side scratching his head!
There was a collision this morning near Gruibingen, A8 Southbound. Police did not close the road all day, nor create absolute chaos. One Dutch HGV was upside down in Lane 1; measurements and details were being recorded at the scene, it certainly wasn't going to take all day.
This was in Germany. Where roads are still properly policed.
Why do Plod in this country have to close motorways for hours and hours every time there is an accident? You can bet your bottom dollar that some Health and Safety arse has decreed that it's 'too dangerous' to keep the traffic moving whilst Plod does his thing with a tape measure and camera.....
This was in Germany. Where roads are still properly policed.
Why do Plod in this country have to close motorways for hours and hours every time there is an accident? You can bet your bottom dollar that some Health and Safety arse has decreed that it's 'too dangerous' to keep the traffic moving whilst Plod does his thing with a tape measure and camera.....
C'mon guys, are you really suggesting that the Old Bill keep a major road artery closed for the...what? Fun of it? Too lazy to open it again? Deliberately slow procedures...?
They take as long as they take, if it is a fatal accident then if it takes two weeks let it take two weeks, lets keep a sense of proportion. They have a job to do and peoples frustrations are obviously a factor, but it won't override the principle task which is to clearly record, document and evidence the circumstances.
They take as long as they take, if it is a fatal accident then if it takes two weeks let it take two weeks, lets keep a sense of proportion. They have a job to do and peoples frustrations are obviously a factor, but it won't override the principle task which is to clearly record, document and evidence the circumstances.
Edited by andy_s on Friday 2nd March 08:51
BigBob said:
Parrot of Doom said:
We have safe motorways in this country for a good reason - because the police investigate these accidents, and lessons are learnt.
Thats why you see things like the new design of armco, where the start of the armco is a solid barrier at a right angle to the road surface, rather than the old design where it comes from the ground diagonally.
Thats why you see things like the new design of armco, where the start of the armco is a solid barrier at a right angle to the road surface, rather than the old design where it comes from the ground diagonally.
That has always struck me as appearing more dangerous than the old sloping approach system. I assume it's not as it is now the method of choice but I still can't see how a dead stop is safer.
BB
Its less dangerous. The new design has a crumple zone, and is nowhere near as stiff as it looks, so the vehicle hits the barrier and comes to a sharp halt. The old design launched the vehicle into the air, usually ending in a rollover.
Parrot of Doom said:
BigBob said:
Parrot of Doom said:
We have safe motorways in this country for a good reason - because the police investigate these accidents, and lessons are learnt.
Thats why you see things like the new design of armco, where the start of the armco is a solid barrier at a right angle to the road surface, rather than the old design where it comes from the ground diagonally.
Thats why you see things like the new design of armco, where the start of the armco is a solid barrier at a right angle to the road surface, rather than the old design where it comes from the ground diagonally.
That has always struck me as appearing more dangerous than the old sloping approach system. I assume it's not as it is now the method of choice but I still can't see how a dead stop is safer.
BB
Its less dangerous. The new design has a crumple zone, and is nowhere near as stiff as it looks, so the vehicle hits the barrier and comes to a sharp halt. The old design launched the vehicle into the air, usually ending in a rollover.
Thought it must be something like that - still the thought of hitting Armco head on frightens the hell out of me
Thanks for the reply
BB
nickwilcock said:
There was a collision this morning near Gruibingen, A8 Southbound. Police did not close the road all day, nor create absolute chaos. One Dutch HGV was upside down in Lane 1; measurements and details were being recorded at the scene, it certainly wasn't going to take all day.
This was in Germany. Where roads are still properly policed.
Why do Plod in this country have to close motorways for hours and hours every time there is an accident? You can bet your bottom dollar that some Health and Safety arse has decreed that it's 'too dangerous' to keep the traffic moving whilst Plod does his thing with a tape measure and camera.....
This was in Germany. Where roads are still properly policed.
Why do Plod in this country have to close motorways for hours and hours every time there is an accident? You can bet your bottom dollar that some Health and Safety arse has decreed that it's 'too dangerous' to keep the traffic moving whilst Plod does his thing with a tape measure and camera.....
But was it fatal?
Yes, it is a pain in the arse, but if it were your family in the crash, would you not want it done properly? Apart from anything else sitting there makes you think about your driving, respect the dead, and calculate how many seconds away you were from being in that crash......
BigBob said:
Thought it must be something like that - still the thought of hitting Armco head on frightens the hell out of me
Thanks for the reply
BB
Thanks for the reply
BB
Best example I could find:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvfba4DGYHg
Parrot of Doom said:
BigBob said:
Thought it must be something like that - still the thought of hitting Armco head on frightens the hell out of me
Thanks for the reply
BB
Thanks for the reply
BB
Best example I could find:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvfba4DGYHg
Didn't know they were backed up by a crumple zone that long TBH. The ones I've seen installed (only driving past admittedly) appeared to only have the diagonal sloping upright changed.
TFT
BB
Parrot of Doom said:
BigBob said:
Parrot of Doom said:
We have safe motorways in this country for a good reason - because the police investigate these accidents, and lessons are learnt.
Thats why you see things like the new design of armco, where the start of the armco is a solid barrier at a right angle to the road surface, rather than the old design where it comes from the ground diagonally.
Thats why you see things like the new design of armco, where the start of the armco is a solid barrier at a right angle to the road surface, rather than the old design where it comes from the ground diagonally.
That has always struck me as appearing more dangerous than the old sloping approach system. I assume it's not as it is now the method of choice but I still can't see how a dead stop is safer.
BB
Its less dangerous. The new design has a crumple zone, and is nowhere near as stiff as it looks, so the vehicle hits the barrier and comes to a sharp halt. The old design launched the vehicle into the air, usually ending in a rollover.
....often into the opposite carriageway, which isn't nice.
The police/highways agency, will close an area of road to afford a safe working enviroment for the emergency crews etc to work in, now that can be for a couple of minutes by a rolling block to enable vehicles to be dragged to the H/S, or for hours/days depending on circumstances.
The usual time that I've seen a section closed for a fatal/poss fatal, investigation has been 3 hours, but it all depends on each individual case.
HGV recovery can take much longer, often if the HGV has left the c/way, and gone moto-crossing, it's left until the early hours of the night to recover, seeing some of the predicuments where vehicles end up, it's a credit to the recovery services how they get them out again! (I digress!)
Now-a-days, the Highways agency set up a "Command post" in a control room for major incidents, where all agencies that may need to be involved send a representative, who has the authority to get things done in their particular field of expertise, straight away, instead of the numberous telephone calls and being passed from 1 dept to another.
The Highways Agency try to get things moving as soon as possible, and we also give regular reports to the Media to disperse to the various radio/TV stations. ( so if on the m/way, keep the TA announcements on) as well as having stratigic messages on the VMS signs to warn of delays/ closures. hopefully so that driver may be able to take different routes.
If the standard of driving was better, we wouldn't have half the number of accidents. but I'll not get on that soapbox!
The usual time that I've seen a section closed for a fatal/poss fatal, investigation has been 3 hours, but it all depends on each individual case.
HGV recovery can take much longer, often if the HGV has left the c/way, and gone moto-crossing, it's left until the early hours of the night to recover, seeing some of the predicuments where vehicles end up, it's a credit to the recovery services how they get them out again! (I digress!)
Now-a-days, the Highways agency set up a "Command post" in a control room for major incidents, where all agencies that may need to be involved send a representative, who has the authority to get things done in their particular field of expertise, straight away, instead of the numberous telephone calls and being passed from 1 dept to another.
The Highways Agency try to get things moving as soon as possible, and we also give regular reports to the Media to disperse to the various radio/TV stations. ( so if on the m/way, keep the TA announcements on) as well as having stratigic messages on the VMS signs to warn of delays/ closures. hopefully so that driver may be able to take different routes.
If the standard of driving was better, we wouldn't have half the number of accidents. but I'll not get on that soapbox!
Edited by gafferjim on Friday 2nd March 15:10
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