Karting Circuits

[Davel]

We have an industrial estate in Widnes and one of our units there has an aicraft hangar type of warehouse (30,000 sq.ft) and an additional 18,000 sq.ft of concrete outside apron, possibly suitable for car parking etc.

I'm looking at possibly creating a Kart Circuit in the shed and of course operating it like any Kart-Circuit with kart hire, refreshments etc and just wondered:

1) Anyone here operate something similar who could advise on possible set-up costs and margins etc.

2) Those of you who race on circuits like this, what 'must have' should we consider to make our circuit special - and no topless female mechanics please!

[g4ry13]

No idea about this sort of stuff but my first thought is the cost of insurance for a place like that. Have you looked into this yet?

[Davel]

Good point and will discuss with our broker.

Clearly the whole thing has to be costed out yet fully.

[peterh2]

Most indoor kart places seem to be overstaffed but I think that may be an insurance requirement as well.

[.Flyer]

Presumably you've scoped out the potential competition in Warrington? We've held a couple of corporate nights there over the years and they were really good. Learn from them! They say they have a 90,000 sq ft arena.

One thing that stuck with me though, is that at the end of the evening, everybody was feeling a little queasy; a combination of a closed environment and an inefficient way to expel the exhaust fumes.

[Davel]

The one in Warrington is probably a similar size sq.ft wise total area but their track goes on two or three levels to give more track length, which we could do also.

My unit is 45 ft to the eaves height, so extra levels wouldn't be a problem provided it was viable.

[srebbe64]

I think you're looking at this the wrong way round. You have an asset and you're thinking of ways you could use it - fair enough. However, if I were you I'd be asking myself the question "what is the need in the area?" There's a great deal you can do with commercial property which will require less overheads. Think about the cost of karting:

20+ karts
At least one engineer
Wear & tear (tyres, components, etc)
Heating
Lighting
Ventilation
Fuel
Fuel storage facility
At least 4 or 5 race coordinators
Someone to take bookings
Timing equipment
Advertising
Insurance
Security
TV monitors
Overalls & helmets
Bound to need some sort of license I bet

The list is endless.

Alternatively you could turn the space into self-storage (that's big business) or simply rent out the building to a company. I know what I'd do!

[Mattt]

What about some topless female mechanics?

[Davel]

It's the wife who doesn't me to get topless female mechanics!

I don't think that I'm going about it the wrong way really. We own and let out 12 warehouses in total on this and other sites.

I operate a storage and handling company in this particular shed and I really fancied doing something different with the unit.

There are easy self storage facilities both in Widnes and Runcorn already.

We are close to Liverpool, Chester and even Warrington and, whilst I know that there are circuits at both Warrington and Queensferry, surely regular clients will use more than one race circuit.

Having said this, the National Karting Association say that circuits should not be within an hour of each other.

We don't have to do Karts, we could creat maybe an all terrain track instead or something completely different.

Halton are planning to build an ice rink and multi screeen cinema with half a mile of here and so I thought maybe a leisure type activity might be a good option.

[JustinP1]

Davel said:

It's the wife who doesn't me to get topless female mechanics!

I don't think that I'm going about it the wrong way really. We own and let out 12 warehouses in total on this and other sites.

I operate a storage and handling company in this particular shed and I really fancied doing something different with the unit.

There are easy self storage facilities both in Widnes and Runcorn already.

We are close to Liverpool, Chester and even Warrington and, whilst I know that there are circuits at both Warrington and Queensferry, surely regular clients will use more than one race circuit.

Having said this, the National Karting Association say that circuits should not be within an hour of each other.

We don't have to do Karts, we could creat maybe an all terrain track instead or something completely different.

Halton are planning to build an ice rink and multi screeen cinema with half a mile of here and so I thought maybe a leisure type activity might be a good option.

Hmm, the National Karting Association, funded by its own members - existing karting tracks - recommend not having a new track taking business from its current members.... whatever next!!!

I wouldnt read much into that. I would say it would be all about how your track was marketed and anything new and different than anyone else could offer. You could simply be cheaper than anyone else or offer twice as long driving for the same price, but there is loads of other things like actively targeting stag groups and the like.

I would say it is worth consideration, but in effect some of the 'casual' business will be lost to Warrington unless you do something different. That said, I live in Warrington and despite being a PHer never visited the karting track - for whatever reason when considering it it was discounted each time - to I would say the door is still open.

[FUBAR]

Why not work out the feasability then punt it round existing operators and just rent it to them?

As an aside, I was discussing a while back with another PHer about the possibility of getting a venue of the size you mention and opening it as a big, indoor skateboard/BMX park? Board/bike sales onsite etc? No idea if thats a 'goer' but may be worth consideration? I would imagine much cheaper to setup and run than a kart track?

Just a thought.

Edited by FUBAR on Thursday 26th July 16:01

[Davel]

We thought about that a while back. There is an indoor skate park at Liverpool and another near Tattenhall (Chester way).

We also talked to Go-Ballistic about a possible indoor paintball arena but the potential income didn't really make it viable. That was more suitable to outdoor redundant agricultural land with part-time staff.

I could rent out the warehouse to someone wanting to operate a kart circuit but equally I could rent it out to anyone in business.

I suppose that I fancied running a circuit and employing some of my family to help run it, with my existing employees - provided of course that it was viable.

Thanks for your input though!

[Timja]

Make sure you have good ventilation! - Have been a few cases of carbon monoxide problems in indoor karting tracks!

I have to say, having attractive ladies in racing overalls is always going to bring a smile to a mans face and encourage them to come back! - I went on a stag do that someone brought a video camera along to. There was 2 mins of racing footage and 15 mins of this fit girl running along the track to help people that had spun!

As well as the usual food, drink options i would suggest that rooms suitable for meetings and product launches would be good to have to encourage corporate days.

Good luck.

[Davel]

How do they deal with stag parties generally?

Do they allow riders to drive even though they've ben drinking or is it strictly policed so that drunken riders are not allowed onto the track.

I wouldn't want anyone riding a kart who was pissed, because of the potential damage they could do to themselves and others.

[FUBAR]

Drinking and karts would be a complete (and quite rightly)

The few karting stag do's Ive been on (including my own) the drinking didnt start until we had left the building, but we made up for lost time

[jconsta6]

Another idea would be to target it at private individuals in local companies.

For example, I've been to a few organsied corperate karting events and as a result ended up with half a dozen of us going back a few times ourselves to have our own competition. Maybe organise a local "company challange" as I expect there are lots of companies with 6 - 15 people who would like to put a private team in. If you did a deal where they slightly better rates than normal - or even the same rate but a bit more track time (the costs would sureley be negligable for an extra 10 mins on an already fully paid 45 min session.)

Then at the end of the year have the final with best 2 drivers from each company going into heats and final. Obviously the kick back from this is any company these people work at may end up coming there for a full corperate night too.

I've thought about karting tracks in the past, and even though when you are handing over 5-£600 for a session for a small group it seems a lot, I came to the conclusion that its not to pay for the time that your there, its more to pay for the time when people ARNT there - i.e. you still have to pay staff, insurance, heating, electricity for 8 hours of the day even if you've only got bookings for 4.

So anything to get punters in would be my main aim. I'm sure if you were operating at high capacity for long periods you could cut costs and make it very competitve and enjoyable - and most importantly - very profitable.

Cheers,

JC

[Timja]

Davel said:

How do they deal with stag parties generally?

Do they allow riders to drive even though they've ben drinking or is it strictly policed so that drunken riders are not allowed onto the track.

I wouldn't want anyone riding a kart who was pissed, because of the potential damage they could do to themselves and others.

No drinking whatsoever allowed before driving - Don't think they actually served alcohol there, but i know some circuits do. We went at about 1pm, so had not started drinking yet (although were heavily hung over from the previous nights drinking, and was a VERY hot day on an inside track. 2 people were feeling so bad being hung over and due to the heat that they chose not to drive!!

I think like most driving days, if you are not fit to drive then the circuit has the right to black flag you or refuse to let you on track.

[Dontlift]

I am involved with a local circuit, feel free to mail me with questions

BTW the NKA are a bunch of feckwit tossers who reckon you cant operate without their say so, we are doing very nicely thank you very much

Edited by Dontlift on Thursday 9th August 17:19

[Onz]

I'd never been to a proper karting track until a couple of months ago at the one in avonmouth, bristol. I was really looking forward to it, however in half an hour of track action I think I managed about four laps at race speed...every time someone spun or went into tyre barriers the amber lights came on which required you to slow down to half speed and no overtaking. Maybe I was just unlucky that there were a lot of people who seemingly couldn't drive and kept making the same mistake over again.

I appreciate the role H&S plays but it just seemed to detract so massively from the experience that I walked away feeling really disappointed.

Apologies if that was a little off topic, from a business perspective I think the price/time on track is a big selling point. Good luck

[wolf1]

Three main problems you need to have on board or in plan before starting are Ventilation, Insurance (very expensive) and finally Noise (complaints from neighbours so no leaving doors open to assist ventilation) The rest of the stuff is quite easy to be honest.