Anyone tried the new Don Palmer/Mark Hales Masterclass?
Discussion
I think the first one is in just under two weeks at Anglessey. I'm very likely to attend - I think both Don and Mark are great coaches, and I like the idea of two days - I always find that on the second day the learning from the first has begun to sink in and real progress can be made.
Kind regards
Steve
Kind regards
Steve
Apparently there are 2 coaches for the course, and four up per car (Almera or M3).
I'm interested, and think Mark and Don could work well together, but need to consider the value. I also wonder whether it really will be a masterclass, because I don't fancy being stuck in the back of an Almera being driven by a numpty. Let alone on a circuit.
WilliBetz
I'm interested, and think Mark and Don could work well together, but need to consider the value. I also wonder whether it really will be a masterclass, because I don't fancy being stuck in the back of an Almera being driven by a numpty. Let alone on a circuit.
WilliBetz
WilliBetz said:
Apparently there are 2 coaches for the course, and four up per car (Almera or M3).
I'm interested, and think Mark and Don could work well together, but need to consider the value. I also wonder whether it really will be a masterclass, because I don't fancy being stuck in the back of an Almera being driven by a numpty. Let alone on a circuit.
WilliBetz
The numpty factor was one of my concerns... maybe we should try and make it one of our "club" event? I'm interested, and think Mark and Don could work well together, but need to consider the value. I also wonder whether it really will be a masterclass, because I don't fancy being stuck in the back of an Almera being driven by a numpty. Let alone on a circuit.
WilliBetz
I had a good chat with Don this morning. He and Mark are running the two days with 6 students. Knowing Mark and Don, the coaching should be tailored to the individual. As a result, I have confirmed my place.
He did say some of the time would be spent three up, but I will probably judge whether that is useful (and / or desirable!) after sitting in with the other drivers. I am going with a friend who is a very handy driver, so I will happily sit in the back with him driving.
Given how tiring these days are, I will be quite happy to have my fair share of driving time, and then some time reflecting on the pit wall.
As to value, I think it is actually pretty good given the exclusive use of the track for two days, use of the cars, and the low pupil to coach ratio.
I have high hopes it will be useful, and if helpful will report back here next week.
Don did confirm that next week is the first running of the event. There is apparently one space remaining.
Kind regards
Steve
He did say some of the time would be spent three up, but I will probably judge whether that is useful (and / or desirable!) after sitting in with the other drivers. I am going with a friend who is a very handy driver, so I will happily sit in the back with him driving.
Given how tiring these days are, I will be quite happy to have my fair share of driving time, and then some time reflecting on the pit wall.
As to value, I think it is actually pretty good given the exclusive use of the track for two days, use of the cars, and the low pupil to coach ratio.
I have high hopes it will be useful, and if helpful will report back here next week.
Don did confirm that next week is the first running of the event. There is apparently one space remaining.
Kind regards
Steve
Edited by stefan1 on Monday 30th July 12:29
I considered (am considering) the course also and am keen to hear how the initial course runs.
Can you confirm, precisely, how it will be run:
1) how many students?
2) how many cars?
3) how much track driving time, in total, per person?
4) is there time to drive on ones own to practise or is all of the running with Don/mark?
Maybe you can only answer these after having been on the event.
Best of luck - I hope it's a good-un.
Can you confirm, precisely, how it will be run:
1) how many students?
2) how many cars?
3) how much track driving time, in total, per person?
4) is there time to drive on ones own to practise or is all of the running with Don/mark?
Maybe you can only answer these after having been on the event.
Best of luck - I hope it's a good-un.
The best source of information is on Don's website - the link is as follows:
http://www.donpalmer.co.uk/intensivetrack.htm
I will certainly report back next week.
Kind regards
Steve
http://www.donpalmer.co.uk/intensivetrack.htm
I will certainly report back next week.
Kind regards
Steve
DoctorPepper said:
WilliBetz said:
Apparently there are 2 coaches for the course, and four up per car (Almera or M3).
I'm interested, and think Mark and Don could work well together, but need to consider the value. I also wonder whether it really will be a masterclass, because I don't fancy being stuck in the back of an Almera being driven by a numpty. Let alone on a circuit.
WilliBetz
The numpty factor was one of my concerns... maybe we should try and make it one of our "club" event? I'm interested, and think Mark and Don could work well together, but need to consider the value. I also wonder whether it really will be a masterclass, because I don't fancy being stuck in the back of an Almera being driven by a numpty. Let alone on a circuit.
WilliBetz
A big price, to use his words.
stefan1 said:
The best source of information is on Don's website - the link is as follows:http://www.donpalmer.co.uk/intensivetrack.htm
that is interesting and does confirm some details - in some areas it is a little vague though. I guess a pukka report once you've done it would be the best thing. I look forward to speaking to you after.
The week before last I attended Don Palmer’s and Mark Hales’ first track “Masterclass”. The event was based at the newly re-developed Anglesey Circuit.
There were six participants in total, making an excellent pupil / coach ratio of 3 to 1. We arrived at the circuit at around 9am, to be greeted by fantastic sunshine and probably some of the best views available at any circuit in the UK.
(That's Mark's plane that he flew in.
)
Mark and Don set out first to explain the objective of the 2 day course. In short, the objective was to explore and deconstruct the process of track driving, and work out how to optimise one’s line and approach to cornering. Mark and Don were both keen to stress that this was not about learning Anglesey (or any specific circuit), but rather helping us to equip ourselves with the tools and processes to analyse a circuit and analyse our own driving. In short, to raise our awareness of how to optimise our track driving techniques.
With the course costing £1,500 plus VAT for the two days, you’d be forgiven for expecting to be able to drive some fairly fancy cars. So it is good that Don and Mark prepared us in advance for the fact that we would be driving a BMW 325i (E90) and a Toyota Avensis! Their rationale in simple – you want to be driving a car where it is easier to feel the response of the vehicle and tyres to a given input, and that means not having a fire breathing, ultra grippy monster! As it turned out, we pretty much all preferred driving the Avensis once we realised how much harder it was to master (the BMW was just so competent), proving Don and Mark entirely right! As I understand it, Rob Wilson, who trains a number of Formula 1 drivers at Bruntingthorpe, adopts the same philosophy and can generally be found tooling around in a VW Passat.
After setting our objectives for the course, it was time to explore the circuit and all the different configurations that Anglesey has to offer. We were four up in each car (three participants and one of Mark or Don), and we set off gently (well, in some cases
). Anglesey has been entirely re-profiled and re-surfaced, and as we quickly found out offers great variation in corner type, from low speed hairpins, to some very quick corners, and perhaps more than any other circuit a huge amount of z-axis challenge, as well as some positive and negative cambers.
For many of the corners, you cannot see the exit, and this, coupled with the very featureless circuit (there are no kerbs as yet, or braking boards), makes choosing one’s entry point tricky.
This, as it turned out, was a real bonus because it allowed Mark and Don to coach us to work out a method for planning our approach to each corner without the benefit of being able to see all of it. I decided on an approach where I would assess where I was exiting for a given entry point, and then consider whether that exit was optimal (eg, using the entire road or running out of road) or not. In short, I started to think with the exit in mind at all times. This proved to be a useful method – obvious in a way, but until you’ve tried it and refined it, it’s actually harder than it sounds.
During the course of the day we spent a fair bit more time in the cars, either watching each other (unexpectedly instructive) or driving. In between drives, we would spend time in the classroom reviewing what we had learnt and also being given some excellent theory input from Don and Mark. Don mostly covered the issue of how to turn in and understand slip angles; Mark was excellent at discussing the optimal racing line.
Interspersed with all the coaching were some fantastic anecdotes from both coaches. Mark, in particular, has been involved for racing a very long time and has some great stories which he tells with aplomb. The stories got even better in the evening when we gathered for an enjoyable dinner.
Day 2 continued in much the same vein, but this time Don and Mark added in trail braking and the effect of weight transfer on grip. It was tremendously helpful to discuss an issue in theory and then have the luxury of practicing, with no-one but us on the circuit, over and over again until we had properly understood the techniques.
By the afternoon of the second day, our pace had increased considerably and we were driving the cars smoothly but pretty much to the limit of their grip. This was a great feeling; to have analysed the whole process and then put it together with some precise, fast and smooth laps. Crucially, this was not because we had “learnt” Anglesey, but because we had developed the tools to improve our own driving.
I was joined on this course by a friend of mine, and we both shared the same view after the event. We are both, in fact, experienced track drivers and in reality little of the theory was new to us. However, we both found the course really beneficial in terms of giving us the space and time to analyse our driving, pull it apart and work out how to improve. It also reinforced the importance of precision, accuracy and the ability to have mental picture of what you are trying to achieve.
On the face of it, it is a lot of money. However, I came away delighted I had made the investment and at the end of the 2 days we all agreed that we wanted to follow up the course with further modules with Don and Mark. Both Don and Mark were excellent – very different to each other and as a result highly complementary.
Mark and Don
The first "graduates"
Kind regards
Steve
There were six participants in total, making an excellent pupil / coach ratio of 3 to 1. We arrived at the circuit at around 9am, to be greeted by fantastic sunshine and probably some of the best views available at any circuit in the UK.
(That's Mark's plane that he flew in.
) Mark and Don set out first to explain the objective of the 2 day course. In short, the objective was to explore and deconstruct the process of track driving, and work out how to optimise one’s line and approach to cornering. Mark and Don were both keen to stress that this was not about learning Anglesey (or any specific circuit), but rather helping us to equip ourselves with the tools and processes to analyse a circuit and analyse our own driving. In short, to raise our awareness of how to optimise our track driving techniques.
With the course costing £1,500 plus VAT for the two days, you’d be forgiven for expecting to be able to drive some fairly fancy cars. So it is good that Don and Mark prepared us in advance for the fact that we would be driving a BMW 325i (E90) and a Toyota Avensis! Their rationale in simple – you want to be driving a car where it is easier to feel the response of the vehicle and tyres to a given input, and that means not having a fire breathing, ultra grippy monster! As it turned out, we pretty much all preferred driving the Avensis once we realised how much harder it was to master (the BMW was just so competent), proving Don and Mark entirely right! As I understand it, Rob Wilson, who trains a number of Formula 1 drivers at Bruntingthorpe, adopts the same philosophy and can generally be found tooling around in a VW Passat.
After setting our objectives for the course, it was time to explore the circuit and all the different configurations that Anglesey has to offer. We were four up in each car (three participants and one of Mark or Don), and we set off gently (well, in some cases
). Anglesey has been entirely re-profiled and re-surfaced, and as we quickly found out offers great variation in corner type, from low speed hairpins, to some very quick corners, and perhaps more than any other circuit a huge amount of z-axis challenge, as well as some positive and negative cambers.For many of the corners, you cannot see the exit, and this, coupled with the very featureless circuit (there are no kerbs as yet, or braking boards), makes choosing one’s entry point tricky.
This, as it turned out, was a real bonus because it allowed Mark and Don to coach us to work out a method for planning our approach to each corner without the benefit of being able to see all of it. I decided on an approach where I would assess where I was exiting for a given entry point, and then consider whether that exit was optimal (eg, using the entire road or running out of road) or not. In short, I started to think with the exit in mind at all times. This proved to be a useful method – obvious in a way, but until you’ve tried it and refined it, it’s actually harder than it sounds.
During the course of the day we spent a fair bit more time in the cars, either watching each other (unexpectedly instructive) or driving. In between drives, we would spend time in the classroom reviewing what we had learnt and also being given some excellent theory input from Don and Mark. Don mostly covered the issue of how to turn in and understand slip angles; Mark was excellent at discussing the optimal racing line.
Interspersed with all the coaching were some fantastic anecdotes from both coaches. Mark, in particular, has been involved for racing a very long time and has some great stories which he tells with aplomb. The stories got even better in the evening when we gathered for an enjoyable dinner.
Day 2 continued in much the same vein, but this time Don and Mark added in trail braking and the effect of weight transfer on grip. It was tremendously helpful to discuss an issue in theory and then have the luxury of practicing, with no-one but us on the circuit, over and over again until we had properly understood the techniques.
By the afternoon of the second day, our pace had increased considerably and we were driving the cars smoothly but pretty much to the limit of their grip. This was a great feeling; to have analysed the whole process and then put it together with some precise, fast and smooth laps. Crucially, this was not because we had “learnt” Anglesey, but because we had developed the tools to improve our own driving.
I was joined on this course by a friend of mine, and we both shared the same view after the event. We are both, in fact, experienced track drivers and in reality little of the theory was new to us. However, we both found the course really beneficial in terms of giving us the space and time to analyse our driving, pull it apart and work out how to improve. It also reinforced the importance of precision, accuracy and the ability to have mental picture of what you are trying to achieve.
On the face of it, it is a lot of money. However, I came away delighted I had made the investment and at the end of the 2 days we all agreed that we wanted to follow up the course with further modules with Don and Mark. Both Don and Mark were excellent – very different to each other and as a result highly complementary.
Mark and Don
The first "graduates"
Kind regards
Steve
Edited by stefan1 on Wednesday 22 August 21:01
Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff