Double yellow lines
Discussion
Hi all,
I received a PCN today courtesy of Westminster council, which I am going to appeal against. But before I compose my letter to them I have a few queries regarding the legality of the supposed convention.
Firstly My vehicle was 'stopped' on double yellow lines (no kerb markings) for loading purposes, for a five minute period. (What is the definition of doubles in terms of unloading etc? I know singles are 20 mins observation time)
I am not convinced that the PCN is fully 'legal' for the following reasons:-
1. The road is closed to 'through' traffic due to water mains upgrade works
2. Due to the said road-works the double yellows are broken as a trench has been dug through them
3. Despite the fact that the yellow lines are painted onto the road there are no signs indicating their
true meaning (as I understand there should be clearly displayed signs on the road)
4. As the road is closed and I had 'stopped' (I don't want to use the term 'park' as I was loading) at the
point the works barrier started, at a period I couldn't have moved my Vehicle even if I had wanted to, as I
had been completely 'boxed in'
5. The PCN itself does not state a time difference between the 'sighting' and time of issue (as if to prove
that I was not loading)
I going to appeal this whatever as I am not happy about it, there is simply nowhere to load/unload in this area without enduring a 10 min walk!
Anything I can add to this appeal (legal speak etc) would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance
I received a PCN today courtesy of Westminster council, which I am going to appeal against. But before I compose my letter to them I have a few queries regarding the legality of the supposed convention.
Firstly My vehicle was 'stopped' on double yellow lines (no kerb markings) for loading purposes, for a five minute period. (What is the definition of doubles in terms of unloading etc? I know singles are 20 mins observation time)
I am not convinced that the PCN is fully 'legal' for the following reasons:-
1. The road is closed to 'through' traffic due to water mains upgrade works
2. Due to the said road-works the double yellows are broken as a trench has been dug through them
3. Despite the fact that the yellow lines are painted onto the road there are no signs indicating their
true meaning (as I understand there should be clearly displayed signs on the road)
4. As the road is closed and I had 'stopped' (I don't want to use the term 'park' as I was loading) at the
point the works barrier started, at a period I couldn't have moved my Vehicle even if I had wanted to, as I
had been completely 'boxed in'
5. The PCN itself does not state a time difference between the 'sighting' and time of issue (as if to prove
that I was not loading)
I going to appeal this whatever as I am not happy about it, there is simply nowhere to load/unload in this area without enduring a 10 min walk!
Anything I can add to this appeal (legal speak etc) would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance
You can load on DYLs for the period of loading and unloading only - and for paperwork if the loading is commercial - for upto 20 minutes.
The attendant can ticket if there is no obvious sign of loading. You might be able to appeal successfully - particularly if you can support a claim of loading.
DYLs prohibit parking and waiting, not loading or stopping.
The attendant can ticket if there is no obvious sign of loading. You might be able to appeal successfully - particularly if you can support a claim of loading.
DYLs prohibit parking and waiting, not loading or stopping.
peaktorque said:
Firstly My vehicle was 'stopped' on double yellow lines (no kerb markings) for loading purposes, for a five minute period. (What is the definition of doubles in terms of unloading etc? I know singles are 20 mins observation time)
DYL don't apply to loading - it's kerb "blips" that show loading restrictions. I think any limit depends on the terms of the Traffic Regulation Order, I don't think it's universal. Could be wrong on that though.On your other points:
1. The road is closed to 'through' traffic due to water mains upgrade works - doesn't matter - if the TRO hasn't been temporarily revoked, they apply.
2. Due to the said road-works the double yellows are broken as a trench has been dug through them - think you'd be struggling to prove that temporary works mean whole line doesn't apply - possible though.
3. Despite the fact that the yellow lines are painted onto the road there are no signs indicating their true meaning (as I understand there should be clearly displayed signs on the road) - double yellow lines & two loading blips no longer require "At any time" time plates under Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 - plates only required if lines only apply at some times.
4. As the road is closed and I had 'stopped' (I don't want to use the term 'park' as I was loading) at the point the works barrier started, at a period I couldn't have moved my Vehicle even if I had wanted to, as I had been completely 'boxed in' - not sure that this makes any difference - the offence is that your vehicle was there, not that you couldn't get it out - it would seem to be a reasonable defence against overstaying a time limit.
5. The PCN itself does not state a time difference between the 'sighting' and time of issue (as if to prove that I was not loading) - some TROs specify "loading" as meaning "loading by goods vehicle" - cars don't qualify as "loaders" and are booked on sight. May not apply here but only explanation I can think of.
Edited by tvrgit on Monday 6th August 22:19
Have a read of this...
http://www.westminster.gov.uk/transportandstreets/...
I have also had a boring read of the actual guidelines for the enforcement (such as giving 3 mins grace etc) but cant find the link at the mo. Will keep looking as have had others do the same for me!
http://www.westminster.gov.uk/transportandstreets/...
I have also had a boring read of the actual guidelines for the enforcement (such as giving 3 mins grace etc) but cant find the link at the mo. Will keep looking as have had others do the same for me!
Add my little bit to that of The Guru - TVRgit
(2) This is no different to when the lines are cov ered by snow? Seem to recall mant many moons ago when I was a Probby that there was a High Court decsion that temporary road works etc did not effect the Order - well before I started to keep notes on such bits and pieces.
(3)Plates will not be required as Council will have applied for Permitted and Special Parking Order which requires signing at the start of the area and no further unless there is a change from that mentioned on the start of are sign. i.e. point where DYL changes to SYL.#
dvd
(2) This is no different to when the lines are cov ered by snow? Seem to recall mant many moons ago when I was a Probby that there was a High Court decsion that temporary road works etc did not effect the Order - well before I started to keep notes on such bits and pieces.
(3)Plates will not be required as Council will have applied for Permitted and Special Parking Order which requires signing at the start of the area and no further unless there is a change from that mentioned on the start of are sign. i.e. point where DYL changes to SYL.#
dvd
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